S.H.FiguArts Dragonball Z figures!!!

[Big Deano]

Hey thats your opinion man, if you like it more power to you, but you have to admit, some of the stuff in GT isnt just bending logic, its just plain laziness in not learning the lore.

A few examples: why do the black star dragonballs exist? And why are such powerful objects left out in the open? Theres no way kamiccolo could use them as he couldnt leave the planet.

How did dr Gero create an exact copy of 17, even though the original needed a human body?

Super 17 being able to pummel ssj4 Goku with ease, yet gets killed by base Goku with a punch to the gut.

Goten and Trunks apparently sensing android 19, even though he doesnt have a power level, not to mention he shouldnt even exist, he was all machine like 16.

Do I even need to mention Gohan going ssj? He physically cant, old Kai stated so.

Finally, the dark dragons; I dont care how much negative energy they accumulated, normal shenron was killed by king Piccolo, theres no way the dark dragons could be as strong and in omegas case, stronger than ssj4, it makes no sense.

There is nothing even remotely as a bad in dbz, just saiyan....

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[Science Friction]

Well, even though BoG supposedly makes GT not-cannon..

Spoiler

Gohan goes SSJ in BoG so Toriyama decided he can still do it. lol.

The rest yeah... GT is CRAZY, but I still love it. It brought back more of the humor, and the later fights were great. So it doesn't make sense, it's not like Dragonball was never absurd.

 

[Atamsk]

Oh wow, I had no idea the argument against Gt was so poor.

So it's never mentioned who made the black star Dragonballs, and they are powerful and left out in the open(in some cases), but also spread all across the galaxy, thus making them very difficult to obtain.

The extra 17 could have been 100% android, there's not much reason to suspect otherwise.

Android 18 assisted Goku in killing super 17. Goku found out 17's vulnerability when 18 was attacking him, it was his only chance for a win. (Note: I actually like this ending, if it were dragonball z things would have ended differently, with another silly powerup or fusion)

Goten and Trunks and all of the Z fighters should now be aware of how the androids work. A suspicious person was heard creeping around in the ally, in an area where dozens of villains were just let loose...

The elder Kai did say Gohan couldn't go SS again, but with a little training I assume that he would be able to once he trains his body more.

Omega had all of the negative energy obtained from the dragonballs. Every time someone got brought back, (goku, krillin, vegeta, all humans on earth, ect) the negative(evil equivalent) went to the dark dragons.

DBZ has no set logic, all rules in DBZ were broken at least once. Goku even came back without the help of the dragonballs... Arguing logic as a flaw in GT is pointless considered that every development in DBZ was basically a 'flaw' in the story's logic.

EDIT: Just to go over a few other complaints I often hear about GT...

Q:Why did Vegeta use the stupid machine to go ssj4? He'd never do something like that!
A: He would if it means he could save his family, friends, planet, and galaxy.

Q:Why didn't any of the other character have their moments?
A:Thats the direction the story was heading. We see this with Akira Toriyama's 'Battle of the Gods.' The other potentials, Gotex got destroyed by evil buu, and Vegeta Got raped by kid buu, with Goku being the only one capable of fighting head on. Gohan is more interested in studies, and isn't that smart when it comes to battle strategies(getting absorbed by buu, letting Cell power up, but most importantly getting absorbed by buu).

I think any question a GT hater can ask has a solid answer if youre willing to think about it, or look for it. People just hate GT for the same BS reason that everyone else does. Just followin the herd I suppose.

 

[FSLAR]

Honestly I don't like GT because it comes off as dumb at times. The beginning is pretty stupid with an 'accidental wish', and Pan reminds me of Scrappy Doo too. Trunks becomes goofy as well, making me miss Future Trunks as well, and the other Z fighters barely appear. And Piccolo oh man, I hate what they did with him, squandering him, leaving him in hell and dying at the end. Baby also came off as annoying and stupidly overpowered like Majin Buu, where how when we thought he died, he just came back. Also I hate the idea of combining Adult Goku's mind with Child Goku's innocence, it doesn't work and even then Goku come across as dumber at times. Honestly, I really missed Adult Goku and Sean Schemmel's voice; I grew up with that, so it's iconic to me and I was pretty sad when I found out he was gone. I don't see how Goku in GT is wiser, because he really doesn't come across as that by this point. It didn't have the overall feel of Dragon Ball or Z. And some of the 'lost episodes' are...what the hell is this? Not to mention Frieza and Cell's re-appearance, wow, way to ruin their image. Nothing to say on Super 17 but I didn't understand that at all really, and the dragons were ok but inconsistent. That dragon that stood up to SSJ4 Goku was weird, the female dragon was decently funny ("The panties of a hot chick!") and the last two dragons were real interesting. I admit though, SSJ4 Goku was all right, it's unique and all his times on screen fighting, I enjoyed them genuinely not because of Sean Schemmel returning but the fights were just solid all around. Besides that dragon. And the soundtrack....wasn't memorable at all, no real memorable moments or anything. I just don't know what to peg GT as; it's way too weird at times, and I don't really like its purpose. Along with those plot holes.

 

[crisis]

Personally I don't mind GT at all. People have been throwing around the "Toriyama didn't make it, therefore it's not canon" argument for yeeaaars, yet there isn't a single interview or article that specifically states "GT isn't canon, please ignore it." Not one.

And I know Akira is on record saying it's a "side-story," but side-story does not mean it's not canon. It being less popular than it's predecessors also doesn't make it non-canon. He simply won't confirm or deny it; it is what it is.

Until the day comes when Toriyama makes a new movie or manga that directly retcons all of the events of GT, it's there to stay!

He could've easily made BoG taking place after the last Tournament of the Buu saga when Trunks & Goten are already adults, Goku starting to train Uub, etc. But he didn't. Hmm, I wonder why?

 

[FSLAR]

I think there was something I saw with Toriyama saying it wasn't canon, I don't recall what so I'm not really sure about GT being canon until I find proof about Toriyama's statement.

 

[The_Philosopher]

Until the day comes when Toriyama makes a new movie or manga that directly retcons all of the events of GT, it's there to stay!

He could've easily made BoG taking place after the last Tournament of the Buu saga when Trunks & Goten are already adults, Goku starting to train Uub, etc. But he didn't. Hmm, I wonder why?

This happened already, Toriyama already said that GT isn't cannon, and when you watch BoG you see why. I'm sure the next movie, or series of movies will fully replace GT.

 

[The_Philosopher]

Regardless of whether it's cannon or not, I didn't like it, way back when we were importing bootleg VHS tapes just to see them a few months after they aired on Japanese TV, at first I thought the bad story may have been the animation studio running with the license, and that the manga would be written better, but then I found out their was no manga I was confused.

Can someone explain why Piccolo just stood there and died? He couldn't wait in the ship for 2 minutes for a new earth to form?

 

[SupernaturalAddict]

Yeah, GT was certainly a stain on the DB franchise no dispute there. But I have to admit, I did have some fun times watching it. GT is undoubtedly non-canon, as Toriyama doesn't approve. The writing was terrible, the plots were sub-par and the villains for the most part were second rate, with a few exceptions. I did like General Rildo. Though Baby felt a little too much like a recycled Kid Buu for me to really enjoy. WTF was Super 17, some Android kind of fusion... I found it both tacky and retarded! All in all, DBZ is still the undisputed champ!

 

[elothk]

I really like the character design of ssj4 goku, bebi vegeta, super 17 and some of the dragons. Other than that i never like the storyline.

But honestly i like the opening song and that very ending goku sequence with flashback in 2000. That sequence is my extreme spoiler how cell and buu died before i was able to watch dbz. .

 

[Atamsk]

So far all I've heard were personal complaints... "Goku becoming a kid was stupid" which is a completely subjective complaint. I enjoyed that part, not to mention that Pilaf has always been an idiot. The black star dragon balls were likely made by someone evil and so they were probably meant to be found, perhaps they were a necessary precursor to the creation of the dragonballs. I liked the music, it was darker than the music in dbz, which I enjoyed. I keep hearing about the plotholes, most of which are probably arguable like the ones mentioned by Deano.

Goku may seem dumber at times, because he's still Goku, and with the kid voice, he will sound like a kid at times... but he's always like that. Goku did mature in the series, he isn't afraid to deliver the finishing blow when it's needed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dru6aXgNm6c

Again, not trying to change anyone's opinion, but there seems to be this "lets hate GT bandwagon" riding around...and no one on it can provide a legit complaint as to why it's "terrible." You don't have to like something, but if you're going to throw hate all over it, then you should be able to provide a legit complaint that isn't subjective...

 

[blood]

All this ****ing **** is like my little pony all over again anic

 

[Atamsk]

My little pony?

 

[Big Deano]

Ok, its obvious you have rose tinted glasses on in regards to GT, which is fine, its your favourite show, but none of what I said is subjective, they are all genuine plot holes that many will agree with.

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[Atamsk]

They aren't plotholes, did you read my comment in response to your "plotholes?" None of them are legit, as I showed. You claim that there are plotholes, while completely ignoring my previous comment which perfectly refuted all "plotholes" you listed. I don't think you read it, and I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't. That's what the herd mentality does. We don't read, or think, we hear, see and follow.

If your erroneous list of "plotholes" are the only "legit" problem you have with GT, then I don't see why you don't like the series. As I've shown, the plotholes you listed are all false and easily filled...

Also, if plotholes make GT so terrible, then shouldn't the same be said for DBZ as well? DBZ has many more serious plotholes than GT does... So by your standards, DBZ is complete garbage, a complete waste of time... plotholes XP Yuck!

 

[Big Deano]

You didnt refute any of them buddy, which is why I ignored the comment. The main one being the black star dragonballs; it is stated that Kamiccolo (the original) made them, no one else, and I asked how he could have ever used them, saying someone else made them doesnt cut it when Piccolo has to kill himself to destroy them.

Look, I respect that you like GT, not many do, but getting all defensive at me makes it seem like you know the issues but deny them, and you know what, its fine, but I will stop now as its apparent we will just start arguing instead of debating.

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[Silrian]

I'm not trying to convince anyone that GT is better.

You clearly are...

And it's utterly pointless.

 

[Atamsk]

You obviously didn't read my comment... It's ok. Most plotholes in GT can be cleared with a little common sense and reasoning. Like I said, if you dislike Gt for it's plotholes then you must hate Dragonball z(plotholes galore).

Let's go over a list of DBZ plotholes since we love dem soo much ;P

Q:How did Vegeta get his body back after selfdestruction"?
A: Magic

Q: How does King Yama deal with villains like Frieza, Cell, Buu if he "had a hard time" with Raditz?
A: Who knows

Q: How did the Ginyu Force get to King Kais planet?
A: They got a free get out of jail free card from Kami.

Q: Why can some animals talk while others can not?
A: Shhhh...

Q: Who granted Goku's wish for Kid Buu to come back as a good guy?
A: Shhhhhh....

Q: What happened to Frieza's "five minute countdown"?
A: Frieza lost count due to the beating.

Q: Why can Goku's father breath in space but Goku can't?
A: Atmospheric.. errr uhm.. stop talking -.-

So as you can see, if you dislike GT because of it's "plotholes" then you must think Dragonball Z is complete s***.


@Silrian, I'm just making a point. The plotholes in GT can be filled easily, and they aren't nearly as big as the plotholes in DBZ. So if you dislike GT for what you consider to be plotholes, then the same must be said(to an even greater extent) for DBZ.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Does anyone have a Figuarts SS Vegeta that they're looking to get rid of? If so, I'll pay a premium price if it doesn't have bad paint apps on the default face Yes, even with the possibility of a new SS Vegeta coming out at SDCC, I'll still pay a premium price. Just PM me!

 

[Big Deano]

The only issue in that list is Frieza and Bardock, I will give you those, but the kid buu wish, and vegeta getting his body back were both yama, he easily has the power to do both those things as he is in charge of spirits. King kai requested the ginyu force be sent to his planet. The animal thing is so minor I never even noticed until you said it. The yama having a hard time is simple; he doesnt deal with it, everytime we see hell its everyone for themselves, and when they get too rowdy yama sends people like pikkon to deal with it.

How you think any of those are even remotely close to what GT has is beyond me.

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