Shang Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (September 3rd, 2021)

[jye4ever]

I specifically said superheroes. Mortal Kombat wasn't the juggernaut Marvel is. Also I don't know too many children watching Kurasawa films.

I'm not saying these movies don't matter but this is something different. Why is everyone so eager to rush and point out that other films with different ethnicities exist?

Because other films with different ethnicities exist that’s why lol

Sho Kosugi was in super popular martial arts movies in the 80’s made by US studios.

Who cares if he wasn’t technically a superhero because in the 80s superheroes were not even popular other than STM 1 and 2 and he was popular even before Batman 89!

How about Mr. Miyagi super famous role!

Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan nuff said!

Look i’m super excited to go see this movie in a poor phase 4 environment because of the great reviews and because I love martial arts action movies especially those dealing with mystical kung fu but keep the forced BS representation out of the conversation it’s eye rolling and no one with half a brain takes it seriously.

Ok yes he is the first MCU asian lead superhero great i’m happy for him but I hate to break it to him there are a ton world famous asian action stars that came before him who are STILL popular to this day here in the US and the world for asians to enjoy.

Gimme a break with that first asian superhero ridiculous representation nonsense.

 

[ironwez20]

I specifically said superheroes. Mortal Kombat wasn't the juggernaut Marvel is. Also I don't know too many children watching Kurasawa films.

I'm not saying these movies don't matter but this is something different. Why is everyone so eager to rush and point out that other films with different ethnicities exist?

So? It was still popular and kids loved it. It was the juggernaut of it’s time .

 

[EvilPrincess]

80s action films aren't superhero films. Are they awesome? Yeah, absolutely. This is different from that. Someone mentioned Black Panther earlier, and the way the black community welcomed it. Was that the first hit film starring black actors? No, but it spoke to the community in a way that perhaps movies like Blade didn't.

I don't think Simu Liu has said he's the only important asian actor.

And no, I'm not dropping it because it's part of the discussion on why it's exciting this film is coming out. Yeah, asian actors and films existed before, and they were great. No one is debating that. I'm glad that asian american kids watching Marvel movies will have more heroes that look like them on the big screen. I know I'd have appreciated it.

 

[ironwez20]

80s action films aren't superhero films. Are they awesome? Yeah, absolutely. This is different from that. Someone mentioned Black Panther earlier, and the way the black community welcomed it. Was that the first hit film starring black actors? No, but it spoke to the community in a way that perhaps movies like Blade didn't.

I don't think Simu Liu has said he's the only important asian actor.

And no, I'm not dropping it because it's part of the discussion on why it's exciting this film is coming out. Yeah, asian actors and films existed before, and they were great. No one is debating that. I'm glad that asian american kids watching Marvel movies will have more heroes that look like them on the big screen. I know I'd have appreciated it.

What u mean 80s action films aren’t superhero movies? They were for there time . And because it’s marvel it suddenly gets credit for being great? We had plenty of representation before marvel.

and black panther spoke to the community cause we waited for black panther for awhile and got it and it was good representation. Shang chi is something that was done before but with marvel

 

[EvilPrincess]

Man, I'm not bashing martial arts films, I like them too! But for our time, right now, they are a different genre of film from a superhero film. I mention Marvel because it's a massive influence, not because it's great. Black action stars existed too, before Marvel made Black Panther, but BP reached people differently.

More representation is a good thing, we're both agreeing there, right? Black Panther was great. Now, the asian american community is getting their Marvel equivalent and we're hoping it's great too.

 

[jye4ever]

80s action films aren't superhero films. Are they awesome? Yeah, absolutely. This is different from that. Someone mentioned Black Panther earlier, and the way the black community welcomed it. Was that the first hit film starring black actors? No, but it spoke to the community in a way that perhaps movies like Blade didn't.

I don't think Simu Liu has said he's the only important asian actor.

And no, I'm not dropping it because it's part of the discussion on why it's exciting this film is coming out. Yeah, asian actors and films existed before, and they were great. No one is debating that. I'm glad that asian american kids watching Marvel movies will have more heroes that look like them on the big screen. I know I'd have appreciated it.

1. You are getting way to caught up in the superhero terminology but ok then I say to you that previous asian movies had plenty of heroes who were super.

2. I’m hoping Shang is better than BP because BP was pretty lame lol What good is representation if the movie sucks right.

 

[ironwez20]

Yes but you act as if marvel is the first to do it and people finally are getting that representation. Yea it’s good Asians have there own marvel film but people act like this is the first one and very first time they got it. Same with black panther. It’s good but people give marvel way to much credit. We had good diverse characters before marvel that influence children.
I bet when marvel gets to storm some stupid reporter will say we finally will see a black woman hero on screen…granted we don’t have many black women heroes but you see where I’m going?
Storm was done before.

 

[ironwez20]

Idk I just find it weird that people suddenly think marvel broke the mold in giving women and people of color starring roles

 

[jye4ever]

Idk I just find it weird that people suddenly think marvel broke the mold in giving women and people of color starring roles

Wesley Snipes Blade > BP

 

[Bravomite]

Why does everyone get so caught up on the characters on screen having to look like them, come from the same country as them, be the same gender / sexuality as them etc.... for ever.... in order for that character to suddenly be relatable. I don't look at Steve Rogers and think hey that guy is blonde, he's American and he's from a completely different generation to me he is therefore a totally unrelatable character and does not represent me.

 

[jye4ever]

Why does everyone get so caught up on the characters on screen having to look like them, come from the same country as them, be the same gender / sexuality as them etc.... for ever.... in order for that character to suddenly be relatable. I don't look at Steve Rogers and think hey that guy is blonde, he's American and he's from a completely different generation to me he is therefore a totally unrelatable character and does not represent me.

It is so dumb isn’t it.

Their main argument is that for 70 years of Hollywood it’s been only white male actors leading the movies so it’s time to open up the flood gates!

To that I say….

I love Blade and i’m not black
I love Leia and i’m not a female
I love Jackie Chan and i’m not asian
I love Godzilla and i’m not kaiju

Hell I love Arnold killing arab terrorists in True Lies and i’m an arab lol

 

[a-dev]

You're right, in that this type of contemporary blockbuster aimed at younger audiences is a different animal, and I'm the first to agree that representation matters.

It does. My mum started watching the show Grace and Frankie with Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlen. I didn't say it to her but I enjoyed seeing her enjoy that show, centering as it does around more senior women and their relationships. Not a show aimed at me at all, my mother loved it and I'm glad she had that.

Why does everyone get so caught up on the characters on screen having to look like them, come from the same country as them, be the same gender / sexuality as them etc.... for ever.... in order for that character to suddenly be relatable. I don't look at Steve Rogers and think hey that guy is blonde, he's American and he's from a completely different generation to me he is therefore a totally unrelatable character and does not represent me.

Until recently I wondered the same but when I think how much I'm missing Tony Stark and Steve Rogers in the MCU already - and that the films I'm looking forward to the most are Spiderman 3, Thor 4 and Dr Strange 2 - maybe this representation thing is more important to me than I had consciously believed only a few years ago.

ZE will remember I mentioned how great Ripley was in Aliens the other day. But that film also had Corporal Hicks who I've always gravitated towards. Sarah Connor is great in the Terminator franchise but lets face it I'm watching it for Arnie.

So yes it appears I do specifically want to see white male heroes on screen - well, 'male' being the more important factor there. If someone like Denzel Washington is leading the film then sign me up by default - great charismatic actor, he's a man, I identify with men. There's nothing wrong with this. There's nothing wrong with a white man wanting his representation - it's only a problem if I'm simultaneously begrudging other people when they're getting theirs. Have I ever done so? I hope not. I don't think I have but I've definitely criticized media/journalistic virtue signalling and SJW pandering kind of talk coming from studios, actors and film-makers. I do still cringe at much of what gets 'said' - in particular as Jye has highlighted these past few pages where there seems to be a lack of awareness and acknowledgment of past movies/characters/actors who were blazing the trails of diversity and representation long before those things became twitter buzzwords. And often it seems like movies/shows are trying too hard to tick every single box - where one might be tempted to call it unrealistic, 'forced' or tokenistic - but for the possibility I might be wrong I generally try to keep my mouth shut these days and just live in peace.

 

[Khev]

It is so dumb isn’t it.

Their main argument is that for 70 years of Hollywood it’s been only white male actors leading the movies so ot’s time to open up the flood gates!

To that I say….

I love Blade and i’m not black
I love Leia and i’m not a female
I love Jackie Chan and i’m not asian
I love Godzilla and i’m not kaiju

Hell I love Arnold killing arab terrorists in True Lies and i’m an arab lol

at the last two.

Hell it wasn't until I was practically an adult that I learned that Steve Rogers was American born of Irish decent just like me which actually made him less cool IMO, lol. I always figured that my favorite superhero would have a more interesting ethnic origin than mine so yeah screw representation.

And I had watched and loved samurai movies for decades but did I weep when Tom Cruise finally appeared in The Last Samurai? Um no Ken Watanabe's character was way cooler, lol.

 

[Matt S]

Pumped for this one. Definitely gonna catch it in the theaters.

 

[ZE_501]

Why does everyone get so caught up on the characters on screen having to look like them, come from the same country as them, be the same gender / sexuality as them etc.... for ever.... in order for that character to suddenly be relatable. I don't look at Steve Rogers and think hey that guy is blonde, he's American and he's from a completely different generation to me he is therefore a totally unrelatable character and does not represent me.

Well...it doesn't have to be an either/or situation. People of all ethnicities and backgrounds love Luke Skywalker, but there's nothing wrong with them wanting to see people that look like them in mass media entertainment too.

I hate shallow corporate pandering, but living in a major metropolitan centre and born in the 70s, I can say with confidence the stuff I grew up watching didn't tend to reflect the demographics of the city I was growing up in.

It's a big, connected world with a lot of population movement. I think kids in particular should see many different characters to reflect that, and some that look like them. That's not anti-white-male, it's pro-everyone.

But when it's lazy, obvious pandering I'm happy to ridicule it.

 

[ZE_501]

ZE will remember I mentioned how great Ripley was in Aliens the other day. But that film also had Corporal Hicks who I've always gravitated towards. Sarah Connor is great in the Terminator franchise but lets face it I'm watching it for Arnie.

That's funny, my reaction is split: to me, Hicks was always just a side character or foil for Ripley that left no big impression, but for Terminator and T2 ... as badass as they made Sarah Connor, it was always going to be an Arnie film first and foremost.

 

[The Buffinator]

It does. My mum started watching the show Grace and Frankie with Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlen. I didn't say it to her but I enjoyed seeing her enjoy that show, centering as it does around more senior women and their relationships. Not a show aimed at me at all, my mother loved it and I'm glad she had that.


Until recently I wondered the same but when I think how much I'm missing Tony Stark and Steve Rogers in the MCU already - and that the films I'm looking forward to the most are Spiderman 3, Thor 4 and Dr Strange 2 - maybe this representation thing is more important to me than I had consciously believed only a few years ago.

ZE will remember I mentioned how great Ripley was in Aliens the other day. But that film also had Corporal Hicks who I've always gravitated towards. Sarah Connor is great in the Terminator franchise but lets face it I'm watching it for Arnie.

So yes it appears I do specifically want to see white male heroes on screen - well, 'male' being the more important factor there. If someone like Denzel Washington is leading the film then sign me up by default - great charismatic actor, he's a man, I identify with men. There's nothing wrong with this. There's nothing wrong with a white man wanting his representation - it's only a problem if I'm simultaneously begrudging other people when they're getting theirs. Have I ever done so? I hope not. I don't think I have but I've definitely criticized media/journalistic virtue signalling and SJW pandering kind of talk coming from studios, actors and film-makers. I do still cringe at much of what gets 'said' - in particular as Jye has highlighted these past few pages where there seems to be a lack of awareness and acknowledgment of past movies/characters/actors who were blazing the trails of diversity and representation long before those things became twitter buzzwords. And often it seems like movies/shows are trying too hard to tick every single box - where one might be tempted to call it unrealistic, 'forced' or tokenistic - but for the possibility I might be wrong I generally try to keep my mouth shut these days and just live in peace.

I think when it comes to Hollywood what we tend to forget is that (from the perspective of those ethnicities who have been underrepresented) those past movies/characters/actors weren't so much blazing a trail but rather trying to keep a flickering candle flame from dying out. Jye mentioned Pat Morita in The Karate Kid. He was great, but I don't think there was another significant Asian character in the entire movie - a movie focusing on Martial Arts! Let's be real - with respect to the whole Hollywood movie making process it's been a predominately white male system. That's why Black Panther had such a profound impact - Feige let Ryan Coogler have full control and it was not just the cast but the production crew itself that was almost entirely black, and they delivered a blockbuster hit about a black superhero that appealed to a wide variety of people. I don't expect Shang-Chi to have quite the same cultural impact, but I'm sure there are plenty of moviegoers out there who think that after 20+ films it's about damn time the MCU made a movie like this one.
When I read the complaints about this I'm reminded of everything I heard from bitter white males over the past 30 odd years as more women and minorities were hired/promoted within the large corporation where I worked (mind you, I'm a white male). Hollywood seems to be the last ones to realize that diversity is good for business.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

That's funny, my reaction is split: to me, Hicks was always just a side character or foil for Ripley that left no big impression, but for Terminator and T2 ... as badass as they made Sarah Connor, it was always going to be an Arnie film first and foremost.

The only time Michael Biehn was good or even remotely memorable was when he played Johnny Ringo in Tombstone.

If James Cameron has a flaw as a filmmaker, it's choosing lead actors with little to no charisma in some of his biggest films. Michael Biehn is the perfect example. Sam Worthington is another, and both get overshadowed by their costars. Cameron does pick good actresses and supporting charcters tho.

Speaking of boring lead actors. According to Grace, while this Shang Chi movie is good, the lead actor is bland and gets overshadowed by everyone else. I knew it as soon as I saw the trailer. I believed I called him boring on the first page of this thread. If only Jackie Chan was in his 20's or 30's now, he would have been a much better choice. The film even pays homage to Jackie Chan in several scenes.

 

[ZE_501]

Hollywood seems to be the last ones to realize that diversity is good for business.

It's a deeply conservative business for a bunch o' degenerates and deviants.

 

[ZE_501]

Speaking of boring lead actors. According to Grace, while this Shang Chi is good, the lead actor is bland and gets overshadowed by everyone else. I knew it as soon as I saw the trailer. I believed I called him boring on the first page of this thread. If only Jackie Chan was in his 20's or 30's now, he would have been a much better choice. The film even pays homage to Jackie Chan in several scenes.

Grace has zero credibility with me, but I'll give you that the lead actor doesn't scream 'Star Power' to me the way someone like Chadwick Boseman did, but I'm hoping to be won over by his performance.