Shia Trashes Indy IV

[Shatterer of Dreams]

Welcome to the internet. You'll see a lot of this around here.

yeah i know but every once in a while i have to restate the obvious. more for my own sanity than anything else.

 

[barbelith]

It would work, and fit the series, if it had been done without CGI.

I don't buy this for a second. If the plane/tunnel sequence in Last Crusade had been done with CGI we would still see a million people defending it as classic.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

KOTCS and Last Crusade are kinda close in my eyes. But I did enjoy KOTCS more than I thought probably because I was prepared to watch a movie inferior to Raiders. When I first watched LC, I really thought it would be at the same level as Raiders and TOD. Like I've said before, Raiders was the anomaly as being the PERFECT movie. TOD came close (but not without its own set of problems) and LC was a big step down for me and a huge disappointment, for many of the reasons mentioned here. There is one other reason LC rates so low to me: the special effects were surprisingly cheap looking. That's something that bothers me to this day. At least KOTCS's effects were fairly top notch, CGI or not. In LC, I HATED the huge rubber boa that squirts young Indy, the fake looking boat he's on when recovering the Cross of Coronado, the fake set for Donovan's apartment, the fake looking boat propeller set that eats Indy's boat in Venice, the cheap looking Zeppelin effects, the horrible way Indy's and Henry's hats are barely affected by the "gentle breeze" of an open cockpit airplane (!), the terrible composite effects of the plane in the tunnel (and the stupid reaction shot), the cheap looking "trompe l'oeil" leap of faith bridge, and Elsa falling into the misty crack on the floor (that doesn't look any deeper than a foot). I'm sure I've forgotten a few things. But those are the cheap effects that really disappoint me. I also thought the tank chase was a pale shadow of the truly gripping truck chase in Raiders.

But I can still enjoy LC and KOTCS a good entertainment, despite them not being as good as Raiders. I found myself really getting into the light-hearted spirit of Crystal Skull and have watched it several times since I got the DVD.

 

[Khev]

Um...with Lucas and Spielberg at the helm, not gonna happen.

People really need to stop lumping Spielberg in with Lucas. There's a reason the filmmaking techniques pioneered in Saving Private Ryan have been copied so many times over in so many different genres and storytelling mediums. The man can direct practical actions and stunts. I'd love to see that done exclusively in a modern day Indy flick.

 

[Khev]

On the other hand, it actually ties directly into what the film is really about, because it's a symbolic reunion of family (returning the "lost" alien to his brethren is what triggers the saucer and enables the "family" to return home).

I know what the film is about and what the filmmakers were going for. Somewhere in the filmmaking process they just forgot to tell Indy.

You're suggesting Indy adopt an "I've got mine, you can suck it" mentality, which would be far more out of character. Indy returns the skull after "winning" because it's the right thing to do..

"I've got mine, you can suck it" is the exact mentality of the ungrateful murderers that Indy risked his family to assist. Indy doesn't return the skull because its the right thing to do, he does it because "they told him to." He literally states just that. There's nothing in the film to indicate that the IDB's are worthy of rescue, or that helping them couldn't have dire consequences. Quite the opposite. There's also no urgency in rescuing them at that specific time anyway. If they're worthy get your family out of harm's way and then come back with the skull. They've waited a few centuries, a few more weeks certainly won't hurt.

Up's Carl Frederickson had a similar journey but Pixar got it right. They made the South American creature a good guy, had Frederickson directly responsible for his capture and thereby honor bound to attempt a rescue, created an immediate need for Kevin's rescue, and made sure that Frederickson put the safety of his symbolic son ahead of the creature he was rescuing, "I don't want your help, I want you safe!" Then through clever storytelling found a way to get Russell back into the fight without contradicting everything Frederickson supposedly stood for at that moment.

Indy paid some lip service to being okay with his family not following him but it rang quite hollow. It wasn't supposed to be hollow and I get that, it just would have been nice if they had done a better job with that, given that it was, as you say, pretty integral to the theme of the entire film.

 

[ShadowX81]

Obviously opinions aren't invalid, but the underpinning of opinions sometimes are. Many opinions are based on internally inconsistent logic (supernatural genre element A is fine but supernatural genre element B is beyond the pale).

That isnt really flawed logic. Condiering that Supernatural Elements A and B are so radically different in tone, feel, and storytype that they are typically considered two completely different genres, it is completly understnadable that people can find the change jarring.

In fact I see more of a flaw in the logic in saying that the two are one in the same, and that they naturally go together.

 

[Josette]

Exactly^ I don't understand why the concept is hard to grasp.

Example:

In Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Buffy fights monsters - vampires, werewolves, demons and witches.....so if an evil version of ET suddenly crash landed in Sunnydale, would that not be jarring? Aliens were never so much as a thought in the show. It would be breaking the fourth wall of what had been established in the Buffy universe.

Each show, movie, book, etc... establishes a world, and what is possible or within the realm of possiblity in that world.

 

[hairlesswookiee]

I don't buy this for a second. If the plane/tunnel sequence in Last Crusade had been done with CGI we would still see a million people defending it as classic.

Wrong. In fact I'm the first person to make fun of these cheesy scenes in the movie.

 

[hairlesswookiee]

That isnt really flawed logic. Condiering that Supernatural Elements A and B are so radically different in tone, feel, and storytype that they are typically considered two completely different genres, it is completly understnadable that people can find the change jarring.

In fact I see more of a flaw in the logic in saying that the two are one in the same, and that they naturally go together.

Thank you!! I was trying to word it this way, but you seemed to do it for me. I was fine with the movie until the last 20 minutes or so, and being constantly reminded of the rest of the movie is what ruined it for me. The warehouse opening and the motorcycle chase are the only parts of the movie I really enjoyed.

 

[IrishJedi]

 

[LChinoz]

People really need to stop lumping Spielberg in with Lucas. There's a reason the filmmaking techniques pioneered in Saving Private Ryan have been copied so many times over in so many different genres and storytelling mediums. The man can direct practical actions and stunts. I'd love to see that done exclusively in a modern day Indy flick.

Well we are talking about KOTSC, which was written (in part) by George Lucas and directed by Steven Spielberg, so I have good reason to lump them together. I am not a Spielberg fan, but even I understand he has done some great work. Most of it came over 10 years ago though. That said, this movie was poorly written (Lucas) and poorly directed (Spielberg) in my opinion. So I am hoping for a better Indy flick in the future.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Thank you!! I was trying to word it this way, but you seemed to do it for me. I was fine with the movie until the last 20 minutes or so, and being constantly reminded of the rest of the movie is what ruined it for me. The warehouse opening and the motorcycle chase are the only parts of the movie I really enjoyed.

I only really enjoyed the warehouse part. the rest went straight downhill after that

 

[IrishJedi]

I am not a Spielberg fan, but even I understand he has done some great work.

 

[LChinoz]

Trust me, I could write on and on about how Spielberg is the most overrated director of the last 50 years. Depending on dumbing down almost every "deep" movie he has done, from Munich to Amistad to Schindler's List, oversimplifying each tale into sentimental and moral fluff. He takes NO risks, NONE. But I digress...

EDIT: I loved Minority Report the book, but Spielberg's ending of the film ruined it for me. Again, he goes for the "safe" and "feel-good" ending.

 

[IrishJedi]

Trust me, I could write on and on about how Spielberg is the most overrated director of the last 50 years. Depending on dumbing down almost every "deep" movie he has done, from Munich to Amistad to Schindler's List, oversimplifying each tale into sentimental and moral fluff. He takes NO risks, NONE. But I digress...

... says the guy who champions AVATAR and who's location is "Neytiri's Loincloth". If only Cameron's latest films had as much edge & originality as your SSF UserCP settings.

 

[bidge1000]

I've liked every single Indy movie for what it was, a good old fashioned romp! KOTCS was excellent in my humble opinion and nobody's going to change my mind with their whining.

D

 

[Maglor]

^^^^^
I like that post. He has the right idea: why are we debating this?

I don't buy this for a second. If the plane/tunnel sequence in Last Crusade had been done with CGI we would still see a million people defending it as classic.

The plane in the tunnel scene could be done with CGI right now and that would be fine. What would they do, make the explosion bigger? I am not against all CGI, what bugs me is when they use CGI to do something so absurdly over the top.

For a tree to gently set a jeep down from a height to just the right spot is of course silly. Yet it would be in keeping with things like raft parachutes and planes in tunnels if it was a normal size tree and not so OVERTLY CGI. (Did you see how tall the tree was?)

That scene and the others I have mentioned take you so far out of the reality that the first three created that it's distracting and I found myself laughing at the movie not with it.

 

[LChinoz]

... says the guy who champions AVATAR and who's location is "Neytiri's Loincloth". If only Cameron's latest films had as much edge & originality as your SSF UserCP settings.

I don't "champion Avatar" . I just liken it to other escapist films. There is no basis of reality in Avatar, similar to Star Wars (but no one dare say that Star Wars is simple escapism). I have a problem with people overrating Spielberg. Of course, I went to film school so blame my professors for my harsh opinions

 

[IrishJedi]

Hmm. I went to film school, too. But then again... that was 16-20 years ago so I'm sure the quotient of pretentious, post-modern film professors might have been a tad smaller. You have a problem with people overrating Spielberg... I have a problem with people discounting him and his body of work, which is legendary. He's not my all-time favorite filmmaker, though. That'd either be Akira Kurosawa, David Lean, Hitchcock or Chaplin. But I'd certainly put him right up there in that group.

And I would absolutely say and admit that STAR WARS is simple escapism. The only difference is that I'd also admit that it inspired literally a generation of filmmakers, artists, and more. And, to date, there hasn't been anything else to come along and have that same impact.

 

[Maglor]

I don't "champion Avatar" . I just liken it to other escapist films. There is no basis of reality in Avatar, similar to Star Wars (but no one dare say that Star Wars is simple escapism). I have a problem with people overrating Spielberg. Of course, I went to film school so blame my professors for my harsh opinions

This is not meant to bash Star Wars (A New Hope) but, I never got a real strong sense of meaning from that movie. It's brilliant escapism, but escapism none the less. That's why I love say Lord of the Rings so much more. They have so much more to say (even if you only count one of them) and they really make you think.

I would be more apt to compare Avatar to LOTR than SW personally. Avatar had a deeper story and a stronger message than Star Wars [I'm gonna get flamed for that]. Even looking at all six movies as a whole, the only part of the SW story that really touches me on any deeper level is the Anakin story ark, which you know absolutely nothing about in A New Hope.