Sideshow Dealers speak out!

[The Josh]

What I dont understand is why Sideshows discount structure has changed. It was changed without warning. And now on top of that every retailer has received a letter from Sideshow stating that if the sell any Sideshow product for more than 15% underretail price their account will automatically be cancelled. No warning, just cancelled. Seems a little harsh to me. I really like Sideshow a lot but I just dont understand them. I have been there for about 5 years already and things just keep getting starnger and stranger. And dont get me started on the grey hulk exclusive. Why no retailer was given any notification by their sales rep is beyond me

Well, SS can't allow retailers to go crazy under retail because that is really undercutting them. I'm not sure I get the whole canceling the account if you go under that but if its been asked please don't go under this, and someone snubs their nose at SS then I'm not sure they have any choice.

Well my biggest problem is that it seems like Sideshow was held at ransom by SF by them pulling the thread down for "only 2 days." Couldn't the discussions have gone on behind the scene without the threatening move? No one would have know and no one would have made a big deal out of this. That is all I have to say about that.

I agree Fub. Keep what is between you and SS or you and company/person "x" behind the scenes and let folks know when the situation is taken care of.

 

[Chicky]

And dont get me started on the grey hulk exclusive. Why no retailer was given any notification by their sales rep is beyond me

Are you referring to notice about the grey hulk ex. or about the policy?

 

[Michael Crawford]

What I dont understand is why Sideshows discount structure has changed. It was changed without warning. And now on top of that every retailer has received a letter from Sideshow stating that if the sell any Sideshow product for more than 15% underretail price their account will automatically be cancelled. No warning, just cancelled. Seems a little harsh to me. I really like Sideshow a lot but I just dont understand them. I have been there for about 5 years already and things just keep getting starnger and stranger. And dont get me started on the grey hulk exclusive. Why no retailer was given any notification by their sales rep is beyond me

That's actually designed to protect retailers - you won't find too many of them complaining too loudly about having a limit imposed on how low their retail price can go. That's to avoid some retailers (especially those that are ebay only where there's zero overhead) from deeply undercutting the other retailers. United Cutlery has had a huge problem with this, and they've lost tons of retailers because of it.

This only becomes an issue when it turns out something is really a dog and needs to get deeply discounted, but I believe there's a policy in place to help with that...but I can't say for sure.

 

[pitchin]

And dont get me started on the grey hulk exclusive. Why no retailer was given any notification by their sales rep is beyond me

Because retailers having advance knowledge meant u guys (some not all) woulda swamped the site and snatched them all up only to profit on

 

[LOTRFan]

These are some REALLY good posts folks, definately some real food for thought. I just want to share my observations:

1) Sideshow has IMO the BEST customer service around, they certainly take care of their customers

2) The exclusives as of late have really been must haves - Lurtz; the Star Wars and LOTR 12" line; the Marvel VS. series; I really wouldn't consider buying any of those in the "regular" format

3) I am not a retailer, but I can certainly see why that is now a HUGE issue - but how do we solve this? An allotment of exclusives to the retailers seems to be the easiest choice, but as a business why wouldn't SS want to continue to sell the SW line themselves - and have them sell in half an hour no less? If they can have the whole pie, why wouldn't they want it?

I honestly don't know the answer to this problem, is there one? The retailer loses when SS releases the "must-have" exclusives. SS "loses" when ebay and retailers sell things like Sauron for MUCH less.

I blame all of this on the Balrog (partially tongue-in-cheek), if he and his cronies wouldn't have created such a feverish collectible market, none of this would be an issue and there would be a lot more "pure" collectors out there, as it stands there exists a large percentage of people out there looking to get rich off polystone.

 

[The Josh]

These are some REALLY good posts folks, definately some real food for thought. I just want to share my observations:

1) Sideshow has IMO the BEST customer service around, they certainly take care of their customers

2) The exclusives as of late have really been must haves - Lurtz; the Star Wars and LOTR 12" line; the Marvel VS. series; I really wouldn't consider buying any of those in the "regular" format

3) I am not a retailer, but I can certainly see why that is now a HUGE issue - but how do we solve this? An allotment to the retailers seems to be the easiest choice, but as a business why wouldn't SS want to continue to sell the SW line themselves - and have them sell in half an hour no less?

I honestly don't know the answer to this problem, is there one? The retailer loses when SS releases the "must-have" exclusives. SS "loses" when ebay and retailers sell things like Sauron for MUCH less.

I blame all of this on the Balrog (partially tongue-in-cheek), if he and his cronies wouldn't have created such a feverish collectible market, none of this would be an issue and there would be a lot more "pure" collectors out there, as it stands there exists a large percentage of people out there looking to get rich off polystone.

Great points Matt. Especially your last paragraph.

 

[creecher]

What I dont understand is why Sideshows discount structure has changed. It was changed without warning. And now on top of that every retailer has received a letter from Sideshow stating that if the sell any Sideshow product for more than 15% underretail price their account will automatically be cancelled. No warning, just cancelled. Seems a little harsh to me. I really like Sideshow a lot but I just dont understand them. I have been there for about 5 years already and things just keep getting starnger and stranger. And dont get me started on the grey hulk exclusive. Why no retailer was given any notification by their sales rep is beyond me

I'm sorry Ras but I don't get it. I think a letter stating what their restrictions are, is, in fact, warning. How much time they allow for distributors to implement these policies, may be a cause for concern, but generally Sideshow are pretty good with understanding drawbacks and unavoidable circumstances. Things change, and it is good that Sideshow are able to be flexible and adjust to changing circumstances. They have to do that to protect their business.

The Grey Hulk was one of their own promotions, nothing to do with retailers, just as exclusives are. Also it gives us end users another interest in Sideshow and their site. People will scrutinize the site, looking for clues to another possible rare exclusive item.

Sideshow are getting alot of flak from us end users, in relation to high prices and availability of securing items cheaper from dealers, and especially ebay. This causes Sideshow, whose intention is to bring to the consumer all the possible figures they may want from a line, to make the decision to stop a line dead in it's tracks, due to poor sales. Look at the PotA, as a recent example, and see the disappointment. Sideshow are disappointed to. They decided to take another risk, and further secure their place in the market. It is what Sideshow are known for, apart from their sculpts and collector friendly policies.

 

[elwood49]

That's actually designed to protect retailers - you won't find too many of them complaining too loudly about having a limit imposed on how low their retail price can go.

That doesn't work AT ALL. MR limited the ROTS sabers to 5% off retail for the first 6 months or so. After that, the prices took a swan dive off a cliff to the tune of nearly 50% off.

The key is limiting the ES and not limiting the price cuts. The KOTD and other LOTR poly was supposedly sold in greatly reduced quantities to retailers. I'm currently having trouble selling some of my collection on Ebay for less than wholesale. Again, the ES is the key, and limiting dealer sales has little to no effect on aftermarket pricing.

The low ES is exactly why I love the exclusives. I can order one direct and 90% of the time it will hold or gain value. I don't have to get pissed that I see a piece selling a year later for 50% of what I paid for it. If I don't want the exclusive, then I just get it from one of our board dealers or Ebay. It's a win/win situation for me as a consumer, but I understand why some dealers may have a hard time with it.

 

[Super Serg]

Ty did in the early days of beanie babies - they will use that to increase profits. That's business.

Michael, your beanie baby analogy is completely off here. Ty never burned his retailers AND was lucky that he didn't because they helped buffer the dive that BB's took when that fad died. He would've seriously suffered & felt an IMMEDIATE sting if he'd cut them off (like sideshow is trying to do now) when his fad died.

He's rationalized this by implying that if he can sell them to you instead of Sideshow direct, he'll sell them to you cheaper. It's an intersting argument, and one could also argue that once Sideshow is no longer dependent in any way on outside retailers, they can actually lower their own prices (they don't have to hold them as high to avoid cutting into retailer margins) and it will actually be better for the customer.

But Comic Statues IS selling it cheaper AND helping me in the long run. How does that hurt sideshow when they're the only 1's selling the exclusives? & they've been taking away A LOT of product from dealers for a while now (using the 2nd chance feature, for example) BUT have they lowered ANY prices? No. Their items are just getting more & more expensive. So they want to be both the manufacturer AND the only retailers? WOW.

Speaking only for myself -- as a consumer -- it seems as if you haven't addressed DROd's main point. It is not a question of whether or how an allocation occurs. It is WHEN. If it is true that SS doesn't advise dealers about how deeply they have been allocated until the item ships, that seems unnecessarily late.

I have been shut out of several SS items in the past due to allocations. I now order SS product only from SS, thereby foregoing any sort of discount I might get from a dealer. That's good for SS and not necessarily for me, but you do what you have to do.

The last point I'd like to make -- as has been pointed out by some and ignored by others -- is that this is ALL about the money. SS's business is to maximize profits. Drod's business is to maximize profits. My personal interest is to minimize expenditures. Morality is not an issue in this conflict therefore anyone attempting to to validate their own position or discredit someone else's position on some sort of moral ground is out of line. Everyone is acting out of self interest. ERGO there is no moral high ground.

Excellent post!

Bottom line. If I wanted a sideshow exclusive, I'd have no choice but to go through sideshow. But what if I miss out on that exclusive? If I missed out on that exclusive, why should I be forced to pay THE SAME AMOUNT for a substandard regular version that doesn't even have the same features?

If I pre-paid something from Comic Statues, because i'm getting it a bit cheaper (& let's face it, every penny counts nowadays), I wait months or maybe even over a year, only to find out that he won't be getting 4 like he thought, but only 1... then not only will I be forced to go back to sideshow for this item... I'm NEVER going to deal with Comic Statues again! & why should THEY (Comic Statues) have to suffer through that when it's not even their fault?

OH! & I suppose it's easy for the 1's in control of a negative situation that's being brought to light to always say something like "this should've stayed private".

*ss*

 

[NASEDO]

My thoughts as a Consumer.

First, I'm not a dealer so this is a little over my head. I do agree that this should have never become "public", and removing the Sideshow section from the other board I do not get. But I hate to see all the "fighting" on a forum which should be a private business matter.

If I owned Sideshow, I would stop selling to dealers. I don’t think they have to. They sell almost 2000 Star Wars figures in 30 min. from their site. I would like to see one set price that everyone has to pay. I can go into a million pros & cons for my reasons but it won’t do know good.

I also feel Bad for Chicky having to defend SS publicly on a forum. People have to be professional about the matter. Protesting and boycotting to me is Ridiculous. You cannot take things personal. I hope SS doesn't back down on what they believe is right.

I personally don’t believe this topic belongs here. I even hate to comment on it. To me it’s just going to cause bad blood. We can argue over Han Solo but this seems to be a personal business matter. It’s sad to see all the Drama it caused at the other forum. Doesn’t the forum get money when people buy through the links posted? Affiliates. I only see problems. As I feel it’s already a personal matter, by taking sides it becomes personal with us. I should of just wrote, "My thoughts this topic should be removed". Again, I see no good coming from this. Ouch!

 

[Darklord Dave]

The motivation of this thread wasn't to accuse dealers or SSC of anything, but to perhaps engender a greater understanding of the relationship between SSC and those that buy wholesale from them. Nothing is ever black and white and getting input from many quarters is always better than just one.

 

[ras819]

My feelings on the grey Hulk are this:
I am a retailer with Sideshow. Retailers are allowed 1 of all exclusives. No exceptions unless after a few months the item does not sell then I am able to order more. I also get NO discount on ANY exclusive items. Not only am I a dealer but I am first and foremost a collector. That is a piece i would have loved to have for myself. Now considering in the last year alone I have spent at least $25,000 with Sideshow I would at least expect to be notified of something so exclusive coming out. I dont think its a lot to ask for. When I saw the item for the first time it was already sold out and that drove me insane. I visit this board and Sideshows site daily. So to get burned like that felt like an insult from Sideshow. I am not asking for disounts but at least a notification. That way I at least have a shot at getting this statue.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Ras, not to turn this into a grey hulk thread - heaven knows there are enough of them out there - but NO ONE got notification of the grey hulk going up. Not dealers, not collectors who buy every single product, not even fan board admins (who really should have been notified....).

And as a Collector, I'm kind of glad that dealers didn't have a heads up on it. Not all of them are also collectors like you, many would have bought it solely for the after market value.

If we do need to continue grey hulking - please post in the sticky thread in the Marvel section.

 

[Michael Crawford]

Michael, your beanie baby analogy is completely off here. Ty never burned his retailers AND was lucky that he didn't because they helped buffer the dive that BB's took when that fad died. He would've seriously suffered & felt an IMMEDIATE sting if he'd cut them off (like sideshow is trying to do now) when his fad died.

First, I never said Ty cut them off. I said they were the top dog in the food chain, and they used that to their advantage. They had small mom and pop shops over a barrel when beanie babies were hot, and they used that to their advantage. Interestingly enough, in their case they told retailers that the couldn't sell their product ABOVE msrp, rather than below, because retailers were charging more for 'hot' beanies. They also had extremely strict regulations on how, where and placement of their product, and if a retailer even sneezed funny, they were dropped.

 

[EVILFACE]

Now you can't even give Ty Beanie Babies away. My wife has about 5 boxes full of em and they are all worthless lol.

 

[Michael Crawford]

Now you can't even give Ty Beanie Babies away. My wife has about 5 boxes full of em and they are all worthless lol.

Yep - although that has nothing to do with how they or their retailers operated. A fad is a fad, and it's passing is the nature of the beast.

 

[FlyAndFight]

As strictly a customer I really don't have a dog in this fight except for the fact that just like the two parties in question, I'm looking out for number one.

The main issues, as I've been able to deduce are as follows:

1. Retailers are selling pre-orders and then their allocations are coming in considerably less than the number of pre-orders taken, thus pissing off some of their customers who may have been waiting for many months for the item to finally become available and be shipped and now are either forced to turn directly to Sideshow and pay MSRP, pay inflated secondary market prices on ebay, or even miss out on the item completely, if already sold out at all other venues.

2. On the other side of the coin we have a collectibles company which at times is seeing items selling for considerably less than wholesale costs and thus affecting the value of the entire line, which includes both inhouse sales as well as retailers. They also are seeing the "on fuego" demand for certain product lines and realize that a bigger part of the pie can be had.

3. The consumer/customers are of utmost importance to both parties concerned and are being manipulated to a certain extent with the whole gamut of "exclusives", "ES", "variations", "newsletter secret hints", and my favorite, the Pavlovian Dog chaotic pre-orders ... Not to mention forums dedicated to drum up business for both parties concerned. Heck even Michael Crawford's neutral review site has more retailer and company links than Josh has posts... just kidding...

 

[Azog]

Hey Gang,

I just wanted to make it clear, that I was in no way bashing Drod by my earlier agreeing with Mike's post. I have utmost respect for Statueforum, Drod, and what they do there. I support Statueforum and Drod in all they do and will continue to do so. The Statueforum is the only other place then here at Sideshow Freaks, where the community is so supportive and folks will go out of their way to lend support, a hand, or the wise crack ( LOL ). Anyways, just wanted to make that point!

Thanks,

Az

 

[customizerwannabe]

From a customer standpoint, I use SS as they use me. I order exclusives from them, and even limited editions if I don't think I can get them cheaper. I pay the big buck. If they become available cheaper I cancel my order. The way SS has the system set up I can do that without being penalized. I think THAT system anyway is great. I'd prefer to buy from SS all of the time because of replacement and QC issues that can be resolved. They usually can't on ebay. However, when I can buy a MISB Gandalf on Shadowfax for 33% less than SS is selling them for, it would make no sense to order from them, except for the afforely mentioned reasons that can't conquer a 33% discount. The exclusives rule and command a premium but the regular editions can be had for considerably less than retail. At times considerably less than wholesale as they are shelfwarmers and that does no business any good. I feel for the retailors, but if you want to fight the system decrease your orders until SS really feels it. The only way to start a revolution is to revolt.

As a final word, I think SS makes some of the most interesting and sought after items in the collector's world.

 

[Hjalmar]

I've read most of these posts. I'm a collector, but about 2 years ago I had a discussion with a dealer about what things are like behind the scenes, so to speak.

The post in this thread that sticks in my mind the most is Chicky's first post about not airing dirty laundry publicly. She makes a good point, so I'm going to keep those dealer's comments (good and bad) to myself and realize that his feelings (good and bad) are better left shared by him with Sideshow.

For now, I'll just assume that retailers who still carry the products are generally happy and those who stop are generally unhappy.

....which is a really long way of saying that I have nothing to say.