SilentSurfer's Laboratory: Come up to the Lab & See What's on the Slab.

[SilentSurfer]

Thanks, Sean. I agree. Couldn't get into it no matter how much I like Terminator, but having this on my desk kinda makes me want to try getting through it all.


But then I think again about how that Terminator skull was able to travel through the time displacement, and it reminds of how little the writers of that show followed James Cameron's Bible for the story, and I just get pissed off again.

 

[SilentSurfer]

Sorry for the rant...

You know, so many movies have reboots and things now. Why can't they just requel the Terminator franchise after 1984. Star Trek did it perfectly with a time travel catalyst, and Terminator is all about time travel, so why can't we just get new sequels...REquels. Cameron screwed up his own original story with T2 anyway, and everything after that has failed to makes sense because of it. I want to see the timeline Kyle told Sarah about. And I personally don't need to see Arnold on the screen every time I go to a Terminator movie. Yes, he is the ultimate Terminator, but I think the story is strong enough, and maybe more credible, without him in it as the T-800 every time. He was only model 101. I want to see some other T-800 models in action.

 

[stshammgod]

Thanks, Sean. I agree. Couldn't get into it no matter how much I like Terminator, but having this on my desk kinda makes me want to try getting through it all.


But then I think again about how that Terminator skull was able to travel through the time displacement, and it reminds of how little the writers of that show followed James Cameron's Bible for the story, and I just get pissed off again.

When you have a show or movie(s) involving time travel, you pretty much are going to contradict yourself at one point or another. You know, I had difficulty with the show right off the bat. It was almost like "oh jeez, it's a 'Terminator of the Week' kind of thing..."

Then the show sort of found itself and took a different direction. It was good for what it was I think.

 

[MarfMaster]

Agreed, they should definitely be taking advantage of the freedom that time-travel allows to breathe some new life into the Terminator franchise!

 

[galactiboy]

Congrats on Gamera... so is he both in a flying mode and standing postion? Or are they two different kits?

 

[a-dev]

Sorry for the rant...

You know, so many movies have reboots and things now. Why can't they just requel the Terminator franchise after 1984. Star Trek did it perfectly with a time travel catalyst, and Terminator is all about time travel, so why can't we just get new sequels...REquels. Cameron screwed up his own original story with T2 anyway, and everything after that has failed to makes sense because of it. I want to see the timeline Kyle told Sarah about. And I personally don't need to see Arnold on the screen every time I go to a Terminator movie. Yes, he is the ultimate Terminator, but I think the story is strong enough, and maybe more credible, without him in it as the T-800 every time. He was only model 101. I want to see some other T-800 models in action.

Firstly, Cameron looks amazing. Stunning paintjob.

Also totally agree, I wish they'd just make a film about the 2029 as Kyle tells it to Sarah and the events leading up to the sending back through time of the Terminators. I also agree about Arnie - it shouldn't be his T-800s all the time. I'm sure we probably had this talk before but remind me what you thought (James) Cameron screwed up with T2.

 

[SilentSurfer]

a-dev just opened the can of worms.

I'll try to give the quick and dirty version of my thoughts on this.

As soon as the T-800 arrives in '94/'95, the timeline as Kyle remembers it, and as the T2 T-800 recounts it, is changed by the course of events that will follow. This causes the events leading up to Dyson being the man most directly responsible for Skynet (and everything that is supposed to follow that) not to occur. That means that all the events leading up to the Judgment War, John being the savior of mankind in that future, Kyle joining the resistance, John and Kyle finding each other, John givng Kyle the picture, Kyle volunteering to go back to 1984, the timing of the resistance to defeat Skynet in 2029--shortly after the Terminator infiltration units ("the newest" "the worst" of the Hunter Killers) start showing up, and the discover of the time displacement equipment which all culminates in Kyle arriving in 1984 to save Sarah, create John, and destroy the T-800 in the Cyberdyne factory, will not happen in the same way if at all. Logically, that means that it's possible that none of it will happen and a totally different outcome may occur, including the failure of the resistance to defeat Skynet and the extermination of mankind. For that matter, the resistance may not ever get formed, and Kyle's parents may not be in the right place to survive the nukes of Judgment War and have Kyle, and John ceases to exist anyway.

However, assuming a similar course of events still does take place, it still could not all happen in the same perfectly timed way to create the scenario that ends/begins in 1984. The solid circular cause and effect cycle of the original timeline established in 1984 and expounded on by the T2 T-800 before Dyson is contacted is essentially erased as soon as contact is made. What lead up to 1984 from the future is now replaced with an unknown destiny where lame-ass characters like Marcus Wright could replace John as the savior of mankind, and John and Sarah are irrelevant.

Point being, James Cameron sold out to make a Hollywood version of his original vision, and it squandered the raw purity of the original concept.

Congrats on Gamera... so is he both in a flying mode and standing postion? Or are they two different kits?

Three different kits actually, but all taken from the original prop molds. Oddly, the flying versions are considerably smaller than the standing version. I guess because they didn't need the flying ones to be articulated puppets.

 

[galactiboy]

So you are building 3 kits total then? Sorry if I'm a bit confused... I thought you hand only gotten a flying one... then the last pick is the badass standing one.

 

[SilentSurfer]

I did just get the flying one with wings and head (the last of the three kits I wanted). The last two pics above of the shell with everything tucked in, and the standing one, are two other kits from the same movie by the same company that I already had. Technically, the tucked in shell version is from 1995, not 1996, but I won't be using the head and arms option cause it looks stupid, and the flying shell is common to both movies because the shell design did not change, while the head is a better, smaller proportion in '96 and the arms are a little different.

 

[galactiboy]

Gotcha... now it all makes sense. I thought everything was in one box which was a bit of a headscratcher

Really looking forward to seeing these finished; got a feeling they are gonna look sick once completed

 

[a-dev]

a-dev just opened the can of worms.

I'll try to give the quick and dirty version of my thoughts on this.

As soon as the T-800 arrives in '94/'95, the timeline as Kyle remembers it, and as the T2 T-800 recounts it, is changed by the course of events that will follow. This causes the events leading up to Dyson being the man most directly responsible for Skynet (and everything that is supposed to follow that) not to occur. That means that all the events leading up to the Judgment War, John being the savior of mankind in that future, Kyle joining the resistance, John and Kyle finding each other, John givng Kyle the picture, Kyle volunteering to go back to 1984, the timing of the resistance to defeat Skynet in 2029--shortly after the Terminator infiltration units ("the newest" "the worst" of the Hunter Killers) start showing up, and the discover of the time displacement equipment which all culminates in Kyle arriving in 1984 to save Sarah, create John, and destroy the T-800 in the Cyberdyne factory, will not happen in the same way if at all. Logically, that means that it's possible that none of it will happen and a totally different outcome may occur, including the failure of the resistance to defeat Skynet and the extermination of mankind. For that matter, the resistance may not ever get formed, and Kyle's parents may not be in the right place to survive the nukes of Judgment War and have Kyle, and John ceases to exist anyway.

However, assuming a similar course of events still does take place, it still could not all happen in the same perfectly timed way to create the scenario that ends/begins in 1984. The solid circular cause and effect cycle of the original timeline established in 1984 and expounded on by the T2 T-800 before Dyson is contacted is essentially erased as soon as contact is made. What lead up to 1984 from the future is now replaced with an unknown destiny where lame-ass characters like Marcus Wright could replace John as the savior of mankind, and John and Sarah are irrelevant.

Point being, James Cameron sold out to make a Hollywood version of his original vision, and it squandered the raw purity of the original concept.

Yep, I went there. I see what you mean. Although it was a story thread Cameron had already envisioned when making T1 as evidenced by the deleted scenes - where Sarah decides that she and Kyle must strike back at Skynet themselves by blowing up Cyberdyne. So he had the potential in him to ruin his own circular story right from the off! But y'know - would we wish to be without T2? I don't think so. Well, most of us love that film more or at least as much as T1.

Back to the Cameron (Summer Glau) paintjob - I'm particularly amazed by the eyes - both the human and the endo. Thats definitely the most convincing painted Terminator eye I've ever seen. Most of the time you just see one solid red colour, you seem to have 2 shades in there - a darker one for the iris and a brighter one for the pupil - and it makes it look like a real LED.

 

[SilentSurfer]

Yes, T2 is a great movie. I'm glad to have it, despite what it does to the timeline. And yes, Cameron did always have the notion of "changing the way things go", but I personally hate that idea.

Thanks for the compliment on the endo eye. Since T2, the endo eyes have been just a red light, but I always liked the aperture shutter effect of the '84 Terminator's eye like an adjusting pupil. That's what I wanted to capture with Cameron--iris and lense the same size, and pupil and aperture the same size.

 

[MarfMaster]

I always liked the aperture shutter effect of the '84 Terminator's eye like an adjusting pupil. That's what I wanted to capture with Cameron--iris and lense the same size, and pupil and aperture the same size.

 

[joebizz34]

Yes, T2 is a great movie. I'm glad to have it, despite what it does to the timeline. And yes, Cameron did always have the notion of "changing the way things go", but I personally hate that idea.

Thanks for the compliment on the endo eye. Since T2, the endo eyes have been just a red light, but I always liked the aperture shutter effect of the '84 Terminator's eye like an adjusting pupil. That's what I wanted to capture with Cameron--iris and lense the same size, and pupil and aperture the same size.

You know Nathan...not to get off topic again but I agree with what you said about the Terminator movies and I remember as a kid getting the whole time travel thing but spending hours explaining it to my father who to this day I still don't think he gets it.

T2 did kind of bring closure to the "we can change how it goes" story and it could have ended right there with the idea that they "possibly" stopped the war from coming and things could be different. Check out the alternate ending on the DVD and you can see that scene in the future where everyone is happy and John is with his kid on the swing at a playgroud. Ironically the same playgroud that Sarah always saw blow up in her dreams. I think with that idea, Cameron could have ended it with a nice neat bow. The fact that he did not go with that ending and went with the more open ended one always left that door more opened to see more. It always bugged me why John Connor didn't disappear right after Arnie melts away and the chip is destroyed. Without time travel or Judgement Day, Kyle doesn't come back to father John.

However with the series and later sequels it's obvious that the inevitable keeps happening with the future altering in some ways. With this type of story line and concept, they can easily attempt to undo their mistakes and make a great sequel that changes some of the events of the sequels. Time travel gives an out to almost anything if done right.

Oh and by the way, great paint job on Cameron.

 

[SilentSurfer]

It always bugged me why John Connor didn't disappear right after Arnie melts away and the chip is destroyed. Without time travel or Judgement Day, Kyle doesn't come back to father John.

However with the series and later sequels it's obvious that the inevitable keeps happening with the future altering in some ways. With this type of story line and concept, they can easily attempt to undo their mistakes and make a great sequel that changes some of the events of the sequels. Time travel gives an out to almost anything if done right.

Oh and by the way, great paint job on Cameron.

Thanks. Yes, I agree with all of the above. And I have actually come up with a very complicated way to allow for all storylines to "co-exist" so to speak, but I had to create an interlaced double time loop to do it. Short version being that one timeline ends up creating the other, and vice versa. One timeline is what Kyle remembers, the other is what we got in the movies, but eventually this new timeline will create an alternate version of 1984 and following events which will then create the timeline Kyle knew, wherein T2 and what followed that did not happen. And the cycle repeats.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Did you read the '1984' mini from Dark Horse??

Never got around to it myself, just curious if it deals with what you're talking about.

 

[joebizz34]

Thanks. Yes, I agree with all of the above. And I have actually come up with a very complicated way to allow for all storylines to "co-exist" so to speak, but I had to create an interlaced double time loop to do it. Short version being that one timeline ends up creating the other, and vice versa. One timeline is what Kyle remembers, the other is what we got in the movies, but eventually this new timeline will create an alternate version of 1984 and following events which will then create the timeline Kyle knew, wherein T2 and what followed that did not happen. And the cycle repeats.

Well I always looked as the series being a paradox. As you mentioned, the looping where the future depends on the past. I always felt that what we saw in the movies is the original way it went (at least at first until T3). Why else would Kyle be compelled to see Sarah and be given her picture by John? I mean if 1984 had another unaltered path, then who fathered John Connor the first time before Kyle came back and changed things up? Why would John give Kyle the pic if originally Kyle wasn't the father? So for this reason I awlays thought that Kyle coming back to be with Sarah was always the case IMO. However, I would love to know your ideas to handle these alternate paths.

 

[stshammgod]

Thanks. Yes, I agree with all of the above. And I have actually come up with a very complicated way to allow for all storylines to "co-exist" so to speak, but I had to create an interlaced double time loop to do it. Short version being that one timeline ends up creating the other, and vice versa. One timeline is what Kyle remembers, the other is what we got in the movies, but eventually this new timeline will create an alternate version of 1984 and following events which will then create the timeline Kyle knew, wherein T2 and what followed that did not happen. And the cycle repeats.

That's some hardcore scifi reasoning right there!

 

[SilentSurfer]

That's some hardcore scifi reasoning right there!

Yes, I blew a circuit on that one.

I love being a geek.

 

[Fives]

killer job on the summer glau t sculpt!!!