Smaug the Golden - Faux Bronze - NOW AVAILABLE

[carbo-fation]

Awesome pics, LOTRFan! I can't wait to get mines. Congrats to anyone else who bought one.

 

[woodsy]

Such a beautiful piece, but I think the base will have to go on mine. Sorry to say but the veneer looks really bad and cheap. Pity.

Wonder how this is fixated on there (screw or glue?).

Thanks. I have looked at all the posted pics so far and none of them could convince me otherwise. I appreciate Weta's attempt of an explanation with the import problems of real wood but at the end of the day people will still see it as an excuse for lowering costs, especially when the pics of the real wood are still floating around freely on your website. I feel bad for the bronze buyers if they do indeed receive the same quality.

But, again, extremely outstanding and novel piece and a new wooden base should be straight forward enough commission for any professional woodworker.
Just need to figure out how to separate the sculpt from the base.

Ok, so I ordered one of these for a friend of mine [he doesn't use credit cards] and it arrived a few days ago. I was a bit apprehensive only because I thought once I saw one of these in person I'd throw caution to the wind and buy one now myself, instead of waiting awhile.
After seeing it in person I have to agree with those who've already received theirs in that the detailing and paint app's of the sculpt are first rate. It's also larger and heavier than I thought it would be, but any temptation to run out and buy one now ended when I got around to examining the base.
Sorry, but the lighter coloured base doesn't look nearly as good as the darker coloured one on the Weta website, it just looks cheaper. And I did'nt realize Weta had replaced the solid wood base of the prototype with a wood veneer base either. I'm not quite sure where or when Weta announced this change to the base, but it certainly isn't on the Smaug pre-order page where the base is still described as such:

"This statue is cast in resin, a material that allows intricate detail, and painted as Faux Bronze. The sculpture sits on a solid wooden base."

Now I don't know if the importation of real wood is a legit excuse or not, but what I do know is Weta didn't lower the price of this statue to reflect the savings in production costs, and there is a significant price difference between wood veneers and solid wood.
I remember the outrage of collectors, myself included, a few years ago when SS decided to cut costs on the Moria Orc PF by replacing the maroon leather with red pleather, but strangely very few people seem to be upset about this.....go figure

Oh, and here's the reason wood veneer's are so much cheaper than solid wood:

Unfortunately, veneer's lift or bubble. They are only as good as the glue used to hold them in place, and as good as the application of that glue. I can guarantee this won't be an isloated incident, it will happen to others. Luckily for my friend his lifted while Weta still has replacements.....

So let's see if I have this straight. Weta has a great-looking statue [with a very low ES] they can't sell out, so they slap a cheaper base on it and then announce they're going to raise the price....does that pretty well cover it.

 

[FrodoEyes]

I wouldn't like to hazard a guess on why they have to raise the price while giving us a cheaper base as i don't personally know how much it costs to manufacture, produce and ship this
But i do know that the change in base gave me the reason not to order it. It looked very tempting on a darker base but even though the sculpt is first rate i don't mind passing on it at the moment.

 

[Anubis]

So let's see if I have this straight. Weta has a great-looking statue [with a very low ES] they can't sell out, so they slap a cheaper base on it and then announce they're going to raise the price....does that pretty well cover it.

Yeah, that about covers it.

I think we all agree that the sculpt is beautiful, and like i've said before i'm fairly sure i'll pick this up in the future.

But as much as I love Weta's stuff, I just don't get how they can justify a cheaper base and increasing the price. Even if the base change was for customs reasons or whatever, that must have made the cost (of the base at least) much cheaper. I don't get it.

 

[Blu Falcon]

Ok, so I ordered one of these for a friend of mine [he doesn't use credit cards] and it arrived a few days ago. I was a bit apprehensive only because I thought once I saw one of these in person I'd throw caution to the wind and buy one now myself, instead of waiting awhile.
After seeing it in person I have to agree with those who've already received theirs in that the detailing and paint app's of the sculpt are first rate. It's also larger and heavier than I thought it would be, but any temptation to run out and buy one now ended when I got around to examining the base.
Sorry, but the lighter coloured base doesn't look nearly as good as the darker coloured one on the Weta website, it just looks cheaper. And I did'nt realize Weta had replaced the solid wood base of the prototype with a wood veneer base either. I'm not quite sure where or when Weta announced this change to the base, but it certainly isn't on the Smaug pre-order page where the base is still described as such:

"This statue is cast in resin, a material that allows intricate detail, and painted as Faux Bronze. The sculpture sits on a solid wooden base."

Now I don't know if the importation of real wood is a legit excuse or not, but what I do know is Weta didn't lower the price of this statue to reflect the savings in production costs, and there is a significant price difference between wood veneers and solid wood.
I remember the outrage of collectors, myself included, a few years ago when SS decided to cut costs on the Moria Orc PF by replacing the maroon leather with red pleather, but strangely very few people seem to be upset about this.....go figure

Oh, and here's the reason wood veneer's are so much cheaper than solid wood:

Unfortunately, veneer's lift or bubble. They are only as good as the glue used to hold them in place, and as good as the application of that glue. I can guarantee this won't be an isloated incident, it will happen to others. Luckily for my friend his lifted while Weta still has replacements.....

So let's see if I have this straight. Weta has a great-looking statue [with a very low ES] they can't sell out, so they slap a cheaper base on it and then announce they're going to raise the price....does that pretty well cover it.

Oooh. Not looking good. Mine will be here Friday so I'll report my finding when I receive it. But you've made a lot of good points, Woodsy, and as much as I am a fan of Weta there really is no excuse for raising the price without disclosing the information about the base change. Maybe you should consider posting your observations over at the S&F to spark discussion and debate. You'll certainly get Weta's attention there considering they frequent the site often. A legitimate gripe if I ever saw one.

 

[Blu Falcon]

Thanks. I have looked at all the posted pics so far and none of them could convince me otherwise. I appreciate Weta's attempt of an explanation with the import problems of real wood but at the end of the day people will still see it as an excuse for lowering costs, especially when the pics of the real wood are still floating around freely on your website. I feel bad for the bronze buyers if they do indeed receive the same quality.

But, again, extremely outstanding and novel piece and a new wooden base should be straight forward enough commission for any professional woodworker.
Just need to figure out how to separate the sculpt from the base.

If the faux wood base proves to be troublesome I would seriously consider replacing it myself as well. I do like the sculpt, but if the veneer started to bubble or peel like in the pics above, it would be very off-putting and I'd be p!ssed every time I looked at it. Especially considering the price we're paying for this piece. I would be tempted to try and have it mounted on a black marble base just to be different. But I would also make my disappointment known to Weta. They're very receptive to customer feedback so I'm sure they'll respond.

 

[theguru1]

Now I don't know if the importation of real wood is a legit excuse or not, but what I do know is Weta didn't lower the price of this statue to reflect the savings in production costs, and there is a significant price difference between wood veneers and solid wood.

Everything else aside, that is very true, down here at least. If customs suspect even for a moment there maybe an issue with the wood, they will just as likely burn it then anything else.
Even if it is maybe OK, they will still pull it all apart for inspection, it will take way longer for you to get it and of course, who knows what damage maybe done during all that.

Basic up shot, you don't import untreated, unprocessed, solid wood into the country.

 

[cstojano]

What are the odds of Woodsy getting the defective statue? Seriously. Well I for one am glad he did because it made me check mine out again. No bubbles but I can foresee problems down the line. I don't like it. I emailed customer service about the real bronze statue bases because I don't think I'd be happy with this base on the bronze after all. Hopefully they will make a change to marble on the bronzes, not likely I suppose. For the first time I'm starting to feel off about the entire thing and I've been a long time supporter of this line.

How on earth do they attach these things anyway?

After a year of delays I am starting to eye a CS Moore conan bronze for the same money.

 

[Darknight]

Very interesting yet valid points brought up in this thread. I guess I shall wait a while for more reviews from collectors who have one in-hand before I make my purchase.

How much was the price increase for this?

 

[Jen]

Thanks. I have looked at all the posted pics so far and none of them could convince me otherwise. I appreciate Weta's attempt of an explanation with the import problems of real wood but at the end of the day people will still see it as an excuse for lowering costs, especially when the pics of the real wood are still floating around freely on your website. I feel bad for the bronze buyers if they do indeed receive the same quality.

But, again, extremely outstanding and novel piece and a new wooden base should be straight forward enough commission for any professional woodworker.
Just need to figure out how to separate the sculpt from the base.

We were told at SDCC that not only was there the problem of importing wood - but over time there is the possibility that it could start to crack or warp - which is another reason that they went this route. I do wish it was stained a bit darker - but it really does look less red in person than in the pics.

 

[Blu Falcon]

What are the odds of Woodsy getting the defective statue? Seriously.

lol It was just in the cards, man. Although it might seem very suspect that the guy who is the most critical of Weta just happens to get a defective piece everyone else seems to be happy with, I have no reason to doubt his integrity. Even the most staunch Weta supporters should ask the same questions.

 

[risingstar]

A picture often looks as good as the frame it's in. In essence, you either notice the frame because it looks great or looks cheap. In Smaug's case, the base looks really cheap and risks effecting the overall look of the piece. A bubbling base isn't a good sign. I could only imagine what that base will look like in 2 months. These issues have a nasty tendency of getting worse over time.

 

[woodsy]

Oooh. Not looking good. Mine will be here Friday so I'll report my finding when I receive it. But you've made a lot of good points, Woodsy, and as much as I am a fan of Weta there really is no excuse for raising the price without disclosing the information about the base change. Maybe you should consider posting your observations over at the S&F to spark discussion and debate. You'll certainly get Weta's attention there considering they frequent the site often. A legitimate gripe if I ever saw one.

Thanks BF! Like I said, the sculpt itself is beautiful, but I do think there are some issues Weta should address, and I've emailed Darren with my concerns. If you want to post my concerns over of S&F please feel free to do so. I decided a long time ago that sitting in front of my computer for any more than 15-20 min/day is more than I care to spend....so my days of "multi-foruming" are over I'm afraid.

Everything else aside, that is very true, down here at least. If customs suspect even for a moment there maybe an issue with the wood, they will just as likely burn it then anything else.
Even if it is maybe OK, they will still pull it all apart for inspection, it will take way longer for you to get it and of course, who knows what damage maybe done during all that.

Basic up shot, you don't import untreated, unprocessed, solid wood into the country.

Ok, I understand the limitations of bringing untreated, imported wood into NZ, but I thought these statues were being made in China, so what does that have to do with the reason's given by Weta? Maybe I'm looking at this too simplistically, but it seems to me that if these bases are being made in NZ then all Weta has to do is use wood indigenous to NZ, and if they are being made in China then use wood indigenous to China. The importation issue therefore becomes a non-issue since nothing is being imported. As long as the wood in question has been treated [sanded, stained, and sealed/varathaned] there should be no problem exporting these wooden bases anywhere in the world.

What are the odds of Woodsy getting the defective statue? Seriously. Well I for one am glad he did because it made me check mine out again. No bubbles but I can foresee problems down the line. I don't like it. I emailed customer service about the real bronze statue bases because I don't think I'd be happy with this base on the bronze after all. Hopefully they will make a change to marble on the bronzes, not likely I suppose. For the first time I'm starting to feel off about the entire thing and I've been a long time supporter of this line.

How on earth do they attach these things anyway?

After a year of delays I am starting to eye a CS Moore conan bronze for the same money.

Yeah, what are the odds....

You're right though, I do see this happening to other's somewhere down the line. The veneer of the top of the base should be fine, but the veneer on the side of the base will always be under stress due to the circular shape. And while this may not be an issue with the vast majority of Smaug statues it is going to effect some. I think my friend could have lived with this had the lifting occurred at the back of the base, but unfortunately it is smack in the front. Weta's CS is excellent though, and a replacement should be on the way shortly.

You make a good point about the bronze version though, one I think that has been made before. It's one thing for Weta to go with a lower quality base on a $430 statue, it is quite another to do so on a $4500 statue.

We were told at SDCC that not only was there the problem of importing wood - but over time there is the possibility that it could start to crack or warp - which is another reason that they went this route. I do wish it was stained a bit darker - but it really does look less red in person than in the pics.

There are two things that effect wood...exteme temperatures differences, and extreme differences in relative humidity. Keeping your Smaug statue at the cottage where it is exposed to temperature extremes year in and year out could eventually present a problem, but keeping it in your home with the temperature anywhere between 60-75 degrees year round, and the relative humidity in the 25-50 % range [depending on the seaon] and you will never have to worry about wood cracking or warping.

 

[theguru1]

Ok, I understand the limitations of bringing untreated, imported wood into NZ, but I thought these statues were being made in China, so what does that have to do with the reason's given by Weta? Maybe I'm looking at this too simplistically, but it seems to me that if these bases are being made in NZ then all Weta has to do is use wood indigenous to NZ, and if they are being made in China then use wood indigenous to China. The importation issue therefore becomes a non-issue since nothing is being imported. As long as the wood in question has been treated [sanded, stained, and sealed/varathaned] there should be no problem exporting these wooden bases anywhere in the world.

Your getting that all wrong woodsy, it's not about Weta importing the wood into NZ (tho I suspect that's an issue too), it's when the wood product makes it too another country, in my case Australia. From that point of view, it doesn't matter if it came from China, NZ, or outer Mongola, we have very strick quarantine requirements for all that sort of stuff and if it was a solid bit of wood, even stained, etc wouldn't matter, customs would pull the package apart and inspect completely. That adds some delay, likely extra cost and all they need to see is maybe some bore hole in the wood or any thought of bugs or eggs inside or anything like that and it all goes up in smoke.
Other countries may not be as picky, but when it comes to keeping pests out of our country, we mean business. Of course there are things you can do, but that gets much more complex, more expensive and even then you may still loose the item.

There are two things that effect wood...exteme temperatures differences, and extreme differences in relative humidity. Keeping your Smaug statue at the cottage where it is exposed to temperature extremes year in and year out could eventually present a problem, but keeping it in your home with the temperature anywhere between 60-75 degrees year round, and the relative humidity in the 25-50 % range [depending on the seaon] and you will never have to worry about wood cracking or warping.

No way is our house anywhere near that very narrow weather range. Right now, in Winter, the house can be as could as sub 10C with humidity at 90%+, to Summer, with temp upto 30C and humidity 20% or less.

 

[woodsy]

Your getting that all wrong woodsy, it's not about Weta importing the wood into NZ (tho I suspect that's an issue too), it's when the wood product makes it too another country, in my case Australia. From that point of view, it doesn't matter if it came from China, NZ, or outer Mongola, we have very strick quarantine requirements for all that sort of stuff and if it was a solid bit of wood, even stained, etc wouldn't matter, customs would pull the package apart and inspect completely. That adds some delay, likely extra cost and all they need to see is maybe some bore hole in the wood or any thought of bugs or eggs inside or anything like that and it all goes up in smoke.
Other countries may not be as picky, but when it comes to keeping pests out of our country, we mean business. Of course there are things you can do, but that gets much more complex, more expensive and even then you may still loose the item.

Ok, I've gotcha. So what your saying is the rest of us have to settle with wood veneer bases because of Australia. There are of course two solutions to that problem:

1]. Have the wooden bases produced in Australia using Australian wood

2]. Limit Smaug sales to everywhere but Australia

I opt for #2.

No way is our house anywhere near that very narrow weather range. Right now, in Winter, the house can be as could as sub 10C with humidity at 90%+, to Summer, with temp upto 30C and humidity 20% or less.

Our weather extremes in Canada make yours seem like a walk in the park... Thankfully for us we have furnaces, central air, humidifiers, and dehumidifiers......

 

[theguru1]

Ok, I've gotcha. So what your saying is the rest of us have to settle with wood veneer bases because of Australia. There are of course two solutions to that problem:

1]. Have the wooden bases produced in Australia using Australian wood

2]. Limit Smaug sales to everywhere but Australia

I opt for #2.

You forgot option 3, limit Smaug to only Australia, stuff everyone else

Of course I would be a bit surprised if it was only Australia that had such import conditions, I just know that we do. it's very possible that NZ are much the same and wouldn't surprise me if the UK was too.

The other option of course was no wood at all, could have just used a polystone base.

Our weather extremes in Canada make yours seem like a walk in the park... Thankfully for us we have furnaces, central air, humidifiers, and dehumidifiers......

Well, we tend to not to get that extreme, so things like 'furnaces' don't happen down here, well, expect in summer and one steps outside.

 

[cstojano]

Anthony provided the most detail about Australia but I a sure the US and Canada have similar draconian (ha ha) laws in place.

Heck I can't even take an orange from my state of Arizona to the state next door of California (at least I don't think I can).

Marble solves all of this but may be too expensive.

As for the warping issue, I'm less concerned about the solid vs veneer issue that the choice of veneer. Grainy = bad.

 

[Mesa]

Anthony provided the most detail about Australia but I a sure the US and Canada have similar draconian (ha ha) laws in place.

Heck I can't even take an orange from my state of Arizona to the state next door of California (at least I don't think I can).

I'm pretty sure I eat fruit from California all the time, so I don't think taking produce across state lines is illegal. Crossing international borders is where the questions start getting asked.

 

[theguru1]

A bit of an update, here's what Tim had to say about the base back on 28th July:

I forgot to mention, the base is made from sold processed wood. We chose processed wood, because it does not warp (natural wood does warp over time) and also because it is much easier to import processed wood. There can be problems importing unprocessed, natural wood.

As for the website not being updated, lets face it, how often does SS update their product pages? Prototype images can still be there, months after the item has shipped.

Other then that, yes, the side had bubbled a bit, but then hows that very different from getting one that's broken, chipped or bad paint apps, it's how easy it is to get a replacement that matters, which was very easy.

 

[LOTRFan]

Anthony provided the most detail about Australia but I a sure the US and Canada have similar draconian (ha ha) laws in place.

Heck I can't even take an orange from my state of Arizona to the state next door of California (at least I don't think I can).

Marble solves all of this but may be too expensive.

As for the warping issue, I'm less concerned about the solid vs veneer issue that the choice of veneer. Grainy = bad.

The US does in fact have very strict importation laws, in my career we import regularly from China (mostly stone veneers and and similar finishes) and have had quite a few setbacks with shipping containers being infested with bugs and the like; they are immediately stopped in port and sent back. Importing any natural material from China is an even bigger headache.