Sooooo, what apes were you hoping for??

[Protozaius]

Re: Re: Sooooo, what apes were you hoping for??

I hope someone does bail out the license and deliver the rest of the figures we asked for [and deserve].

I wouldn't say "deserve" exactly. What did we actually do to deserve anything?

When I mean quality it doesn't stop at the sculpting. There is the quality of the clothing. I have some figures from smaller companies whose clothing where seams are about to split and whose ends are about to unravel (my Android Hunter/Blade Runner figure comes to mind). And then there's the quality AND quantity of Sidweshow's accessories, well usually anyway. Even down to the colorful and classy packaging... you've got to admit the boxes Sideshow makes are some of the best in the business, bar none! Not that it matters too much since I open everything, but I digress

It was just that Sideshow was the best of possible worlds for an incredile 12" Ape line... anything after this will be a step down.

 

[ironman1188]

Re: Re: Sooooo, what apes were you hoping for??

It was just that Sideshow was the best of possible worlds for an incredile 12" Ape line... anything after this will be a step down.

Cool!!!! More for me!!!
And by deserve, I mean that a fan base that can reach back to '68-'69 and has stuck with the franchise through mediocre comics & magazines and a mostly horrendous cartoon [due in large part to the lack of animation] "deserve" the best a fan can get. This does not fall solely on Sideshow, but in this particular case, we're talking 1:6 figures of which Sideshow was the provider. I still think thatsome "lesser" figures would have sold had they been done up to Sideshow's old standards.
Personally, I was in for all of these, and I'm sure I wasn't alone:
James Whitmore - President of the Assembly
James Daly - Dr. Honorious
Robert Gunner - Landon [with lobotomized extra head access.]
Jeff Burton - Dodge [with glassy eyed museum head access.]
Diane Stanley - Stewart
Lou Wagner - Lucius
Woodrow Parfray - Dr. Maximus
Buck Kartalian - Julius
Victor Buono - Mutant [ Fat Man ]
Jeff Corey - Mutant [ Caspay ]
Natalie Trundy - Mutant [ Albina ]
Tod Andrews - Capt. Maddox [ Skipper ]
Gregory Sierra - Mutant [ Verger ]
Eric Braeden - Dr Hasslein
Sal Mineo - Milo
Ricardo Montalban - Armando
Bradford Dillman - Lewis dixon
Natalie Trundy - Stephanie "Stevie" Branton
Roddy McDowall - Milo [in leather tunic from film's beginning]
Don Murray - Governor Breck
Hari Rhodes - MacDonald
Severn Darden - Kolp
Slave Gorilla in red tunic
Slave Orangutan in orange tunic
Claude Akins - General Aldo
Lew Ayres - Mandemus
Austin Stoker - MacDonald
Paul Williams - Virgil
Natalie Trundy - Lisa
Bobby Porter - Cornelius
John Huston - The Lawgiver
Roddy McDowall - Galen
Ron Harper - Virdon
James Naughton - Burke
Mark Lenard - General Urko
Booth Coleman - Dr. Zaius
Eldon Burke - Gorilla Trooper Olam
Ron Stein - Gorilla Guard Tirvo
John Hoyt - Prefect Barlow
Marc Singer - Dalton
William Smith - Tolar
Norman Alden - Zako
Beverly Garland - Wanda
Percy Rodriguez - Aboro
Pat Renella - Jason

I know not everyone would want ALL of these, but I'm sure there are more than just 1 or 2 that would sell well.

 

[Protozaius]

Re: Re: Sooooo, what apes were you hoping for??

Cool!!!! More for me!!!

WHAT?!?! I never said that I wouldn't buy 12" Apes if they were offered by a smaller company... I just said that it would be a step down from what Sideshow brought to the table. Heck, I bought all of the Hasblow stuff... so I've sunk pretty low in the past to get my Ape fix.

And by deserve, I mean that a fan base that can reach back to '68-'69 and has stuck with the franchise through mediocre comics & magazines and a mostly horrendous cartoon [due in large part to the lack of animation] "deserve" the best a fan can get

Hmm, interesting. Personally, I've been on the same road as you have these past 30 years (mediocre comics, magazines, TV series and lets not forget Hasblow!) yet I've not reached the level where I feel entitled to get anything... from ANYONE. Hmmm. I feel lucky that I got the opportunity to purchase some of the best Ape merchandise EVER this past year. It was a fun but unfortunately short run.

Personally, I was in for all of these, and I'm sure I wasn't alone

Actually, Ironman, I think you are! Now, I'm a die-hard Apes fan but looking at your extensive list I would be hard pressed to rationalized shelling out $40-$50 each for some of them... I would have definitely passed on some of the more obscure TV human characters (Dalton and Tolar, BLEECK!). Believe me, Sideshow would have truly tested my metal as a completist if they offered Lewis and Stevie! Perhaps you should contact a talented customizer to help you score your Dalton and Tolar.

I'm sure there are more than just 1 or 2 that would sell well.

Ironman, if Cornelius and Zira didn't sell well (they are now being offered at a reduced price on Sideshow's website) and these are PRIME CHIMPS here, what makes you think Prefect Barlow would? In fact, what other figure on your list do you think would have sold BETTER than CORNELIUS and ZIRA!?!

NEWSFLASH: You can NOW get the VERY popular Dr. Zaius FREE with your purchase of a Lawgiver statue at Sideshow website!

www.sideshowtoy.com/cgi-b...072905news

 

[hulkfan]

Re: Re: Sooooo, what apes were you hoping for??

Ironman, if Cornelius and Zira didn't sell well (they are now being offered at a reduced price on Sideshow's website) and these are PRIME CHIMPS here, what makes you think Prefect Barlow would? In fact, what other figure on your list do you think would have sold BETTER than CORNELIUS and ZIRA!?!

Sshhhh! We'll have none of that 'rational' talk around here! You're in danger of spoiling his theory that the line's demise is due to Sideshow's unbridled desire to 'slap the face' of the collector, out of sheer spite, rather than something as logical as sales numbers.

 

[ironman1188]

Re: Re: Sooooo, what apes were you hoping for??

I just said that it would be a step down from what Sideshow brought to the table.

Well, I'm glad you'd buy them PZ, but I don't really see that they would be a step down.

I've not reached the level where I feel entitled to get anything

Well, I guess...good for you?
I think if I'm spending $40+ on a figure I can be entitled.

if Cornelius and Zira didn't sell well (they are now being offered at a reduced price on Sideshow's website) and these are PRIME CHIMPS here, what makes you think Prefect Barlow would?

What I said was "I know not everyone would want ALL of these, but I'm sure there are more than just 1 or 2 that would sell well." I didn't say Barlow would out sell Cornelius and Zira. Maybe Aldo, the ape-o-nauts would, but we'll never know now.

Sshhhh! We'll have none of that 'rational' talk around here! You're in danger of spoiling his theory that the line's demise is due to Sideshow's unbridled desire to 'slap the face' of the collector, out of sheer spite, rather than something as logical as sales numbers.

Ahhhhhh, Sideshow will now bless us with their presence. They can't come out and tell you the line is officially cancelled. They can't tell you the reason the likeness is off is that the likeness rights were unobtainable. They can't tell you a lot about what you've asked,but have someone go a little pro-sideshow against somebody else and they'll jump outta the woodwork.
I never said Sideshow had an unbridled desire to slap the collector's face. I just said that some of your decisions were a slap in the face of the collector. And poor sales numbers couldn't have anything to do with oversized heads, poor rooting of the hair on females, end product not looking like the prototype or my favorite....prototypes not looking like who they're supposed to be. The line's demise couldn't possibly hinge on any of those "rational" sales factors. Or the fact that they sell pretty well at the 2nd market/online dealer prices can't mean that Sideshow might be overpricing them a little? I'm still skeptical on the whole Brent issue as the 1st reason doesn't match the latest one, but, again, its all moot now. Thank you Sideshow for being upfront and honest with your customers.
Now....on to kill off the Buffy line before that one's completed.

 

[screamingmetal]

Re: Re: Sooooo, what apes were you hoping for??

No matter what you say, it still stands that Cornelius and Zira didn't sell well. The only other characters that would've sold better then those two would be Taylor and Cornelius. And you cant use the "they flooded the market with Taylors" excuse because Sideshow really only made four versions of him, two of which were a very limited edition of 500 and (two of the four sold out). And the other central Apes to the first movie were made, they didn't drag the line on for too long before seeing these characters, and they still don't sell!

I just said that some of your decisions were a slap in the face of the collector. And poor sales numbers couldn't have anything to do with oversized heads, poor rooting of the hair on females, end product not looking like the prototype or my favorite....prototypes not looking like who they're supposed to be. The line's demise couldn't possibly hinge on any of those "rational" sales factors.

No it's not. The over sized head and the Poor Rooting was all on one figure, Nova. There wasn't a product that did not look different then the prototype. Taylor? he looked fine, Exclusive Taylor may have needed the shirt and a better paint job but that one did sell out! It looked wrong but still sold.
The only prototypes not looking like who they're supposed to be are Brant and Nova, Brant's problem was the licenser, so go blame them. Nova was decent not horrible, I'd still like to buy that set. and who's to say that she didn't have the same problem as Brent?
So what does that leave?
-Two versions of Dr. Zaius, both are great, one limited to 500 and still hasn't sold out, the other gone.
-Three versions of Taylor, one looked great and sold out (or about to), one looks great and has yet to sell and is limited to 500, and one that looks great, has yet to sell but hasn't sold out possibly because he comes with Nova.
-Two versions of the Gorilla solder Both look great, and only one version sold out,
-Zira looks great and still has yet to sell.
-Cornelius looks great and still has yet to sell.
-Two mutants, They look great, one limited to 500 and they have yet to sell out (that could be because they haven't been released yet, word of mouth).
-General Ursus Looks fantastic, the best and most intricate of all of them but the exclusive version still has yet to sell out!
-Two versions of The Lawgiver Statue both look great, and has yet to sell out (only the exclusive has limited to 100)
-Caesar (we'll have to wait and see how this one goes)

Sideshow really only fumbled with two, the others are great, and many have yet to sell.
The problem with the Planet of the Apes line is that the Planet of the Apes collectors aren't seeking out these characters as dolls. They are out, there is nothing wrong with these figures, most look perfect! And the collectors still don't care.
It's not Sideshow that killed the line because they hate it, or lost interest in it, or screwed up on most of them (just look to Hasblow for screw ups if you need to be reminded) it is the Planet of the Apes collectors that did, there simply isn't enough of them out there that would buy dolls.
And it saddens me too because I really want Ape-O-Nauts!

 

[ironman1188]

Re: Re: Sooooo, what apes were you hoping for??

The only other characters that would've sold better then those two would be Taylor and Cornelius.

Your opinion. Which you should be entitled to as I should mine.

And you cant use the "they flooded the market with Taylors" excuse because Sideshow really only made four versions of him

I don't know that I said they "flooded the market with Taylors" but for a line out barely a year and have 4 versions of one character.......the water's getting high.

My comment about sales, heads, rooting etc was not limited to the POTA line.

The only prototypes not looking like who they're supposed to be are Brant and Nova, Brant's problem was the licenser, so go blame them.

In the Ape line this is true, though Heston could have been closer in resemblence. However, I am still skeptical to buy the licensor excuse on Brent as that was not what was said originally. The original reason was that the sculptor did his best, missed the mark, the licensor approved it anyway and it was in production and unable to be changed. Now, all these months later, as the line comes to a close and not a bit officially, he changes the story to the likeness rights not having been available. Seems to me he would have known this when sculpting the piece.

As for the other pieces and your thinking they look great or not, I'm not going to debate you on your opinion.
To me, Heston was lacking, Cornelius was off a bit in appearance, Zira was ok, Zaius was wonderfully done, the gorilla was a disappointment in its being "too" generic, The mutants, to me, are too early to tell and Ursus, while he may be intricate, does not look like the James Gregory version from the film to me so far, but he should be here Monday and I can attest to his likeness better.
The Lawgiver statue? Its a great piece, but its more a statue than a figure and some statue collectors may not collect it as its only one piece and not belonging to a set and other figure collectors may not have bought it due to its high pricepoint and it not being a figure. My conjecture is as good as the next guys as far as why something "wouldn't" sell.

Sideshow really only fumbled with two, the others are great

Again, your opinion, which you are entitled to, but with which I don't agree. Brent and Nova are way off. Taylor, Cornelius, the gorilla soldier [and possibly Ursus] could all be better. being as Taylor was used 4 times, Brent twice the gorilla twice and Nova ...thats 9 released figures that are fumbled.

just look to Hasblow for screw ups if you need to be reminded

All too true, but we're not dealing with Hasbro here, we're dealing with Sideshow..the high end of making excellent representations of the characters we love. There is no argument from me that for $20 Hasbro gave us mostly lousy Apes and Star Wars figures. Sideshow doubled the price and gave us some better figures from the Ape franchise and some....let's just say different ones. Now they have the Hasbro Star Wars license.......we'll see how that goes. At least we should get some decent unis and weapons.

I'm not looking to argue with you, or Hulkfan. And while I may be harsher on some of Sideshow's "work" I don't insult them personally unless attacked personally first. Honestly, I'm upset with all the lines I like falling at the wayside. I suppose I should just be grateful for what I was able to get. After all, look at the poor bastards who got their hopes up when Sideshow originally announced the Happy Days license.

 

[Bonehead15]

Re: Re: Sooooo, what apes were you hoping for??

Well I'll be honest, I'd buy almost anything Ape related. I have or preorderd every piece that SS has released or announced.

I consider myself a "die hard" Apes fan but probably not as much as Ironman.

From a buisiness point of view, I can understand why SS canceled the line. The figures just didn't sell. It sucks. >: I too am upset. The Apes were probably my second favorite line behind the Uni Monsters. I for one thought that there were plenty Apes fans out there that would be interested with 1/6 scale figures but I don't think for a second that the figures didn't sell cause the line lacked quality. IMO I felt that the figures were quite good. Sure some weren't perfect but I don't feel that a single figure was below par. That's just my opinion. Some may disagree with me and that's fine.

I hope maybe SS will reconsider and release a few more limited figures like Beneath Taylor. The Apeonauts would be rather easy to make. A Zira or Cornellius in human clothes from Escape would be easy also.

SS is a company. They make figures, statues, ect. to make money. The Apes just didn't make enough money to continue the line.

 

[creecher]

Re: Re: Sooooo, what apes were you hoping for??

I can't understand it. The most popular Sideshow lines aren't cutting it. It does look ominous. I know, from down under, that there are many figures, that are being bandied about as not selling well, and we haven't even had our shipment arrive.

How long does an item have to be on the market before it's decided it's a flop? I can only afford a certain number of figures, so when lines stream out figures, I can't get them all. So I get what I can, while I can, and during the slower periods, mop up some that I missed out on. There seems to be less 1/6 fans than what I thought there might be. Most people would be waiting for the bargains on ebay. Someone buys them up, no matter how many of a particular item there is. So the consumers are out there. The PotA line came out with too many figures for me to keep up with. The news that there doesn't seem to be many fans buying these will have a downward affect on ebay prices. Woo Hoo. The news that the line is over will send them back up again.

I'd have thought there would be some co-ordinative strategy. I guess the cost of licenses doesn't allow time for this. The licensor invariably comes out of things unscathed, whilst Sideshow cops the flack. Had they understood saturation points they might have aspired to doing a good deal for all concerned.

 

[ironman1188]

I guess the cost of licenses doesn't allow time for this. The licensor invariably comes out of things unscathed, whilst Sideshow cops the flack.

An interesting perspective, Creecher. One that may well go unconsidered at times. The licensor may well increase the license' cost if for no other reason, then there is suddenly an expressed interest in it. This would then force the company, Sideshow in this instance, to raise the SRP to make up for that added cost. Yet another reason that could lead to poor sales and would indeed help add to the demise of our beloved lines.

 

[Protozaius]

Personally, I don't think that Sideshow could have launched the line any better... well, I only wish they would have put up the 1/4 Apes for pre-order as well, but that is my own dead horse to beat. As an Ape Fan, we couldn't have asked for more... spot-on likenesses of core, high demand characters like Zaius, Cornelius, Zira and Taylor. It was a dream come true for Ape fans.

However, this is not the first time Apes has failed in the marketplace. SOTA had plans to launch their own Ape figure line but due to the low sales of their Ape busts, SOTA decided to cancel the line. Here's a link to an old interview with Jerry Macaluso of SOTA:

systems.figures.com/Features/index.html?show_article=37953&domain=figures.com&dom=fig&domain_id=4

Also on a related note, I remember Ape Fans looking forward to the publishing of the book "Planet of the Apes Re-visited" for over a decade. It was finally released in 2001, in conjunction with Burton's "reimagining" abomination for $25. The book sold poorly. It is now READILY available at Book Liquidators across the country for $6 each.

I wonder if the constant failure of Apes in the market will lower it's licensing fees.

 

[ironman1188]

I wonder how much adverse effect the Burton "re-imagining" had on the whole franchise?

 

[Protozaius]

It's not Sideshow that killed the line because they hate it, or lost interest in it, or screwed up on most of them (just look to Hasblow for screw ups if you need to be reminded) it is the Planet of the Apes collectors that did, there simply isn't enough of them out there that would buy dolls.

It's strange to realize just how small the particular pond you are swimming in really is.

Planet of the Apes is that strange kind of franchise where the fan base is deceptively small. Sideshow is not the only company to get burned on the franchise (see above link to SOTA interview). I still wonder how far Palisades 4" Ape line will go. If they do their homework, they won't get past the prototype stage.