Spoiled

[samueljd]

I think when you are spending as much as we are for this stuff, you have a right to be upset and complain if you get something that looks/feels cheap, scratched, damaged, etc.

Remember what the topic is. Of course we're all upset when we get damaged items, but the thread is discussing nitpicking about minor issues. And if you have experience with something looking or feeling cheap, I'd wait until you see a few reviews about the product before committing to it. I wait on purchases I'm on the fence about until I see some in hand pics and reviews.

 

[usswanker]

This is actually a hard question. I think it depends on the price of what you’re purchasing. If it’s something like a $175 HT figure I could understand why people would nitpick about things. Then again we got SS doing things like The Dead and they are fantastic figures for the price. But sometimes people just complain too much and I think they should be glad they are getting a collectable of some of our favorite characters.

 

[Lee in MI]

As has been pointed out many times here, people are much more likely to complain about something rather than compliment something - that's just human nature.

I'm not so sure about this and I'm not sure if spoiled is right either. I think there is a fair amount of gloating for product being released...clone obi, obi-wan,tdk bats and HT's release of Batman begins just to name a few.

Sure there is some criticizing...some constructive, some undeserved. But to me complaining is like like saying "this sucks" with no real intelligent discussion beyond stating a negative opinion. Constructive criticism, imo, is stating a fault about a product, being able to accurately point out that fault and have an intelligent discussion to back up your point. For example, most folks thought the V1 Joker was an awesome figure but it was pointed out that Ledger's likeness was not really evident in the sculpt. That's not complaining, thats pointing out what you see. Being constructive would be stating where and why you think Ledger's likeness is missing. To me it was the eyes and the mouth. Sure it was a great rendition of the character, but it wasn't Heath Ledger as the character. ^^^^^ing and moaning would have been just saying, "That HT's Joker sucks ass!"

just me .02

 

[Voorhees27]

I think when you are spending as much as we are for this stuff, you have a right to be upset and complain if you get something that looks/feels cheap, scratched, damaged, etc.

How are you "spending" money on something you haven't "bought" yet? If you don't like something don't buy it, if it costs too much and doesn't cater to your needs don't buy it.

All i'm saying is, if it doesn't comply with your standards then why buy it and then complain after. Or better yet when you've made your point. Being dissatisfied shouldn't have to be repetitive.

Also if you are paying top dollar and feel cheated then maybe its time to find a new hobby. I sure as hell wouldn't want to feel obligated to consistently fork out top dollar for garbage.

 

[CelticPredator]

That TDK Batman sucks ass. The cowl is 2.3 cm too big. WHAT THE HELL HOT TOYS! YOU FAIL AT ACCURACY!111

 

[The Mike]

Sometimes it just perception as well....the Aragorn PF to me is one of the best pieces that SSC has offered and looks dead on like Viggo. Although you'll find fans who say it sucks and resembles nothing like the character....

 

[ENDO-HUNTER]

I voted yes, yes we are spoiled! These are good times and I am greatly appreciative of all the amazing stuff i've had the privledge to collect! Sure out of the 30+ figure I own only maybe 4 or 5 are spot on but who cares?

These things are just to fun to fuss about. However sometimes I believe it does help, Joker V1 being one good example. We were rewarded with a replacment head in the BR version.

The only ones that bug me are the ones that complain about EVERYTHING! Nothing can please these depression cases imo.

Well stated my bro. I agree 100% with you on this.

 

[MaulFan]

There is a fine balance between discussion of what you'd want improved on a high-end figure and just ^^^^^ing and moaning about every little thing.

As has been pointed out many times here, people are much more likely to complain about something rather than compliment something - that's just human nature.

Those that are happy that we're getting representations of our favorite characters can be put off by those that feel that everything has to be 100% perfect in order to be worthwhile.

Strong points raised here.

I don't think folks have to be spoiled to discuss shortcomings of pieces. Having gone through art school, you're trained in it, constantly looking at people's work and pointing out your likes and dislikes.

The key is in the presentation. Some folks do like to make critical remarks in ways that seem like they're just stir things up or whatever, but some are just discussing a piece, and it's quite possible to be critical of a piece and still be quite happy with it at the same time. There are pieces that I like what they are, but I also enjoy a good discussion of what else they could be.

On the flip side, some people on the content end seem to get a bit too emotional at times. I've seen threads where people very happy with an item start going at people with negative comments because the negative people are ruining their enjoyment, which I don't get. What other people think about a collectible doesn't change my enjoyment of it. Yeah it's nice when threads are post after post of upbeat, equally enthused people, but if it doesn't go that way you just roll with how it is, have your fun, ignore the stuff you don't like and there ya go.

Communication and tolerance and the lack of either or both is usually what results in the problems around here.

 

[creecher]

I don't think we're spoiled at all. If you get what you pay for then it's fair. It's when you get less than you bargained, that's when it becomes unfair.

Case in point, Hot Toys high end collectible manufacturer. Their items are in demand. To get one of their products I have to pre-order to be certain of acquiring it. To me it seems that things are better for collectors from the States. Maybe they're spoiled. I can only speak of my experience. Maybe that's why many of you say, what I find to be ridiculous statements like "If you don't like it, don't buy it." If I didn't like it I wouldn't buy it, duh. I don't have the opportunity of viewing, anything other than the prototype promise of, what I will receive. If I don't pre-order, and pay in advance, I have a high risk of missing out entirely. Then, six months, more or less depending, to find something lacking in the product is annoying. It's all too late once it is in hand. All you can do is warn others, or state your disapproval and disappointment, only to be shouted down by the mass of supporters who didn't get ripped. Maybe it's different for the spoiled ones who can rely on Sideshow to bail them out. With Sideshow distributing so many other companies items, I envisage their customer biased policies to change. I've heard some of these have already changed or been modified, so maybe your aren't as spoiled as I am assuming.

I don't think that's whining, moaning or necessarily negative. Some of these 'minor' issues with high end collectibles persist, and that's not really acceptable. If these incidents are rarities, then the responsible company should make good on their products. More so, when I show my support by making these investments so far in advance, and even more so when the same problems or issues are discussed repeatedly. Companies ought to rectify recurring issues in a timely manner.

 

[samueljd]

I don't think we're spoiled at all. If you get what you pay for then it's fair. It's when you get less than you bargained, that's when it becomes unfair.

Case in point, Hot Toys high end collectible manufacturer. Their items are in demand. To get one of their products I have to pre-order to be certain of acquiring it. To me it seems that things are better for collectors from the States. Maybe they're spoiled. I can only speak of my experience. Maybe that's why many of you say, what I find to be ridiculous statements like "If you don't like it, don't buy it." If I didn't like it I wouldn't buy it, duh. I don't have the opportunity of viewing, anything other than the prototype promise of, what I will receive. If I don't pre-order, and pay in advance, I have a high risk of missing out entirely. Then, six months, more or less depending, to find something lacking in the product is annoying. It's all too late once it is in hand. All you can do is warn others, or state your disapproval and disappointment, only to be shouted down by the mass of supporters who didn't get ripped. Maybe it's different for the spoiled ones who can rely on Sideshow to bail them out. With Sideshow distributing so many other companies items, I envisage their customer biased policies to change. I've heard some of these have already changed or been modified, so maybe your aren't as spoiled as I am assuming.

I don't think that's whining, moaning or necessarily negative. Some of these 'minor' issues with high end collectibles persist, and that's not really acceptable. If these incidents are rarities, then the responsible company should make good on their products. More so, when I show my support by making these investments so far in advance, and even more so when the same problems or issues are discussed repeatedly. Companies ought to rectify recurring issues in a timely manner.

Companies can only rectify recurring issues if people directly contact them. Are you addressing the issues with the contacts for the given companies? If people are just complaining about the products here in the forums (which many people do) and not talking to the companies directly, than proactive action is not being taken to correct the problems and the company is not getting the broad knowledge of issues that have been persisting with their products. Anytime I've had a problem I have contacted the vendor, the company, or both.

 

[devilof76]

If you mean spoiled as in rotten, then I'd say yes, there's a faction that acts like princesses when their divinely superior tastes are not satisfied, and the rest of us philistines have to listen to them grouse about how corrupt the world is for not giving them the best figure imaginable.

If you mean spoiled as having an amazing range of characters being offered in greater detail than has ever been offered, and at relatively reasonable prices, then yes, it's a good time to be a collector. I wish the companies producing the most expensive of these figures were as responsive to their quality issues as Sideshow, but what can you do.

 

[noisetrigger]

Is this community a bunch of spoiled rotten little bastards?

So much complaining lately, about such little details. I think certain figures being so perfect like Bank Robber Joker, or Dallas and Kane, have raised our expectations on everything produced by any 1/6 company. So have these few products ruined your ability to impartially judge certain lesser products, maybe just because they aren't wearing a crazy suit of armor?

Personally I think just about everything that's been coming out is incredible, it's a great time to be a collector, but with all these products it also seems complaints are at an all time high.

Again I'm not talking about serious issues like rubber deterioration, but what are IMO, minor little things like the crispy issue on Two-Face.

HT has certainly raised the bar lately with the TDK line and I guess everyone expectation just became much higher due to that.

I think it's a good thing we have demands but only if it is realistic. I totally find the whole nitpicking issue with the TF really annoying. It's almost borderline like the TDK suit nitpicking that got a thread lock.

HT certainly raises the bar but let us be fair. There are still limitations and restrictions to a manufacturing of such a delicate and detail figure and HT (or any company for that matter) can't accommodate every single detail.

What they can is try to deliver the best product possible with what they have and they did that many times and much more than any other 12 inch companies out there. I have never seen another company like HT jumped through so many hoops just to pleased a small niche market (let's face it, 12 inch ain't exactly mass produced toys like transformers).

TF is easily one of their best work out there but also the least appreciated of the TDK line and it's all minor nitpick or non-issue (bulky jacket is just a matter of futzing and most people who actually owned the figure have shown that it's a fantastic figure).

Worst, most of the complains came from people who probably never really wanted the figure in the first place but pre-ordered it anyway due to the hype or fever of TDK products and with the fire dying down now, suddenly suffering from buyer's remorse and basically looking for hundreds of reasons for not getting the figure.

ps-Deckard bro, glad your TF head arrived safe and sound and that you love it I appreciate it greatly if you leave a feedback for me in the feedback thread. Thanks.

 

[Anzik]

Speaking as someone who started with Hasbro and moved into Sideshow but has yet to take the plunge into Hot Toys, I think there is a very vocal element that would make it seem that SSC and Hasbro are interchangeable.
It seems that every time we get an ANH Obi Wan, or Palpatine/Sidious, that anything else is fraud. I think there are some, and in increasing numbers, who expect custom quality paint applications in mass produced figures. I think the offensive comments are way out of line. No one would want someone commenting on their work in such a way, yet have no hesitation about maligning the work of a sculptor who's work is heavily dependent on the casting and painting. It's also disturbing to see people dismiss anything that is NOT sculpted by Trevor Grove as inferior. Trevor is incredible, that's not in dispute. Mat Falls takes a lot of heat but to this day there is no better Mark Hamill likeness that ROTJ Luke. Oluf has captured some of the best likenesses ever with Palpatine, Spike, Seth Green etc, Andy Bergholtz ROTS Obi Wan is perfect, but could just be a tiny bit smaller. Tim Miller hasn't failed to impress me yet. We heard all kinds of complaints about Ki Adi Mundi, but by putting him on a tall body makes the figure perfect (A production mistake, not a talent mistake.)
That being said, there are very legitimate issues of quality control and also of value. I haven't seen another figure with Faramir paint apps, in fact most are closer to ANH Ben. The tailoring has improved slightly but still has a ways to go.
As far as value, the prices keep rising, accessories are being reduced. The main issue that has always bugged me is the idea that costs are spread over the number of figures produced. Stormtroopers for example, are using the same body and most of the armor is going to be the same, meaning a reuse of the sculpt, reuse of the mold and very little paint, yet they will move up from the original price point. Given the amount of cancellations due to finances, I think SSC could sell a lot more if they dropped the prices slightly. I think the Utapau trooper and FU Trooper would have sold much better if the pricing were more in line with troop building. Same with the rebels and Imperial troops. The Dead figures are also creeping up in price as well, despite the reuse of sculpts, accessories, variants, and no licensing fees. As SSC begins moving toward HT pricing, while it seems HT is lowering prices, it doesn't make sense for customers to pay a little more for higher quality.
SSC has always had a niche as the collector friendly, affordable and accessible higher end toy maker. I think they are moving away from that.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Welcome to the internet noob.

I agree that for the most part these products are great. I think most everyone feels that way or else we wouldn't be here. Internet conversation is ALWAYS pointedly critical. Its the nature of the internet (especially anything regarding pop culture), not the nature of toy collectors specifically.

Visit any music or film forums and you'll see the same trends. Like the news, this place would be boring if everyone was just positive all the time.

 

[Morbach]

I voted yes. Being treated to good figures is like joining the mob,there's no going back. And you can't or won't settle for less. So I do think it spoils us.

 

[The Josh]

Those that are happy that we're getting representations of our favorite characters can be put off by those that feel that everything has to be 100% perfect in order to be worthwhile.

I know that has worn on me over the years. I'm fine with constructive comments on figures being better, but there are far more IMO folks who have to have every detail perfect for it to be a solid piece. Nothing is ever going to be 100% perfect not even by Hot Toys.

You're never going to find anything that's a 100% perfect. Anyone expecting that is foolish.

Exactly!!

Speaking as someone who started with Hasbro and moved into Sideshow but has yet to take the plunge into Hot Toys, I think there is a very vocal element that would make it seem that SSC and Hasbro are interchangeable.

HT makes some very nice stuff but I have to say they're the flavor of the month as Medicom once was here. Basically anythings is better than SS for some folks. Thats how it comes across anyways.

It seems that every time we get an ANH Obi Wan, or Palpatine/Sidious, that anything else is fraud. I think there are some, and in increasing numbers, who expect custom quality paint applications in mass produced figures. I think the offensive comments are way out of line. No one would want someone commenting on their work in such a way, yet have no hesitation about maligning the work of a sculptor who's work is heavily dependent on the casting and painting. It's also disturbing to see people dismiss anything that is NOT sculpted by Trevor Grove as inferior. Trevor is incredible, that's not in dispute. Mat Falls takes a lot of heat but to this day there is no better Mark Hamill likeness that ROTJ Luke. Oluf has captured some of the best likenesses ever with Palpatine, Spike, Seth Green etc, Andy Bergholtz ROTS Obi Wan is perfect, but could just be a tiny bit smaller. Tim Miller hasn't failed to impress me yet. We heard all kinds of complaints about Ki Adi Mundi, but by putting him on a tall body makes the figure perfect (A production mistake, not a talent mistake.)

Those guys all do great work as well. It gets annoying reading how basically its only one guy at SS that can do anything. When the others have turned out countless awesome items. I'm waiting for the first time Trevor misses a sculpt and gets tossed out for the next guy who nails one. It will happen with some here because they're truly what have you done for me lately.

The paint issues with some figures which IMO have been few and far between overall what it is. Sometimes it will happen but I agree many expect custom work on these figures and its not going to happen. They cannot take the amount of time Josh, Les, Mikey, etc take on a figure. When those folks realize this they'll be happier.

I also agree there are lots of comments about the work both sculpting, painting, and tailoring that go too far really. None of those people would like it if someone came to their work and ripped them like that. They'd be crying or ready to punch someone in the face.

 

[NASEDO]

Complaining has made the hobby better, and the standards. So you can't have high standards unless you complain.

But theres a difference between complaining and moaning, saying something sucks for no reason is stupid. But moaning about my INDY PF being way too dark is legit. And I hope SS listens to my complaint so there next figure will have higher standards for the hobby due to me complaing.

 

[El Roranous]

SPoiled? Nope. We pay around $150 and higher for these things! Talk to anyone outside this hobby about how much these things cost and you will see a look of shock on their face.

We get what we pay for and if standards are raised by one company than it's quite right to expect it in the future.

 

[The Josh]

Complaining has made the hobby better, and the standards. So you can't have high standards unless you complain.

But theres a difference between complaining and moaning, saying something sucks for no reason is stupid. But moaning about my INDY PF being way too dark is legit. And I hope SS listens to my complaint so there next figure will have higher standards for the hobby due to me complaing.

Complaining and Moaning are the same and only make the hobby worse or worse for people trying to enjoy things. Constructive Comments have made the hobby better sadly thats only done small portion of the board.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Board reactions don't make or break my personal feelings about the hobby as a whole. People that don't like the nature of boards should avoid boards, but I never in my life saw a board that was :chew all the time or even 75% especially those this big that are public.