Star Wars: Ahsoka

[ajp4mgs]

OK, in retrospect I do recall that they mentioned Ahsoka got the location of the key's hiding place from interrogating Morgan, so not looking for it wouldn't have made any difference in the end (i.e., Morgan, Baylan & Co. would have eventually found it without her involvement). But it still feels like Ahsoka should have sensed she was more than just someone loyal to Thrawn. I distinctly remember Ahsoka telling Din Djarin that Morgan Elsbeth was not to be underestimated, and yet that appears to be exactly what she did in not personally escorting her to some high security prison.

Nightsister or not, Elsbeth apparently needed the aid of others to escape custody, so her threat level in isolation is already neutered by way of the plot context. And can't blame Ahsoka for having no greater confidence in a New Republic "high security" prison than she would in a New Republic security transfer ship. As far as I can tell, incompetence is the defining characteristic of the New Republic, so it wouldn't really make much difference.

I'd rather get explanations for a few other things that are making far less sense to me so far. Maybe it's only because I didn't watch any of Mando S3 that the plot logic in Ahsoka seems hopelessly deficient. Did I miss something that would explain any of the following:

1.) If Elsbeth is a Nightsister, and knew that the location of the starmap was at an ancient Nightsister temple, why hadn't she retrieved it herself and decoded it?

2.) Why is there even an ancient starmap that could possibly point to where Thrawn is? He was taken (to this galaxy far, far, farther away) by Ezra and his space whales right before the events of ANH. Not exactly ancient times, and not by design of the Nightsister clan. Unless the space whales could *only* choose this singular destination, I'm lost as to how there'd be such assurance that an ancient starmap would point the way specifically to Thrawn.

3.) How is knowing about a portal to another galaxy supposed to allow anyone to pinpoint Thrawn and/or his ship? Unless this new galaxy is the size of a Wal-Mart, are they expecting to just pull up to the first person they encounter and ask about a blue-skinned dude who would've shown up there several *years* earlier?

4.) If Thrawn is best suited to lead an Imperial revival, it'd be because of his incomparable intellect, so why would anyone else be able to beat him to a solution for returning? That would kinda negate his value as such a superior mind, wouldn't it?

Maybe these all have answers/explanations and I missed them, or maybe they're forthcoming, but right now there's so little that makes any sense to me. And considering the high probability (only IMO, of course) of Luke getting involved to set up the Filoni movie and pique as much wide-ranging interest in it as possible, I'd like the plot progression to actually be thought through enough to make sense.

 

[chrisstbh]

4.) If Thrawn is best suited to lead an Imperial revival, it'd be because of his incomparable intellect, so why would anyone else be able to beat him to a solution for returning? That would kinda negate his value as such a superior mind, wouldn't it?

He’s stuck in another galaxy. Interstellar travel is not possible in Star Wars via the regular hyperdrive on a ship and all he had was a busted up Star Destroyer.

Who knows what resources are available wherever he is.

He was smart by having people on standby that he could rely on to solve problems.

 

[Khev]

Nightsister or not, Elsbeth apparently needed the aid of others to escape custody, so her threat level in isolation is already neutered by way of the plot context. And can't blame Ahsoka for having no greater confidence in a New Republic "high security" prison than she would in a New Republic security transfer ship. As far as I can tell, incompetence is the defining characteristic of the New Republic, so it wouldn't really make much difference.

I'd rather get explanations for a few other things that are making far less sense to me so far. Maybe it's only because I didn't watch any of Mando S3 that the plot logic in Ahsoka seems hopelessly deficient. Did I miss something that would explain any of the following:

1.) If Elsbeth is a Nightsister, and knew that the location of the starmap was at an ancient Nightsister temple, why hadn't she retrieved it herself and decoded it?

2.) Why is there even an ancient starmap that could possibly point to where Thrawn is? He was taken (to this galaxy far, far, farther away) by Ezra and his space whales right before the events of ANH. Not exactly ancient times, and not by design of the Nightsister clan. Unless the space whales could *only* choose this singular destination, I'm lost as to how there'd be such assurance that an ancient starmap would point the way specifically to Thrawn.

3.) How is knowing about a portal to another galaxy supposed to allow anyone to pinpoint Thrawn and/or his ship? Unless this new galaxy is the size of a Wal-Mart, are they expecting to just pull up to the first person they encounter and ask about a blue-skinned dude who would've shown up there several *years* earlier?

4.) If Thrawn is best suited to lead an Imperial revival, it'd be because of his incomparable intellect, so why would anyone else be able to beat him to a solution for returning? That would kinda negate his value as such a superior mind, wouldn't it?

Maybe these all have answers/explanations and I missed them, or maybe they're forthcoming, but right now there's so little that makes any sense to me. And considering the high probability (only IMO, of course) of Luke getting involved to set up the Filoni movie and pique as much wide-ranging interest in it as possible, I'd like the plot progression to actually be thought through enough to make sense.

I posted Filoni's comprehensive formula for explaining the events of this series a while back. It involved "searching for a map," a bunch of question marks and profits, lol.

 

[ajp4mgs]

He’s stuck in another galaxy. Interstellar travel is not possible in Star Wars via the regular hyperdrive on a ship and all he had was a busted up Star Destroyer.

Who knows what resources are available wherever he is.

He was smart by having people on standby that he could rely on to solve problems.

If those things pan out to be true, then great! But Thrawn is supposed to be more than just "super smart." If there was a way from one galaxy to another, then it stands to reason that there's a way back. If Ahsoka, or anyone else, gets to that galaxy, then space whales can't be the only things capable of making the trek. So, this new galaxy will need to be presented as a true trap for Thrawn, the way you are characterizing it. If it's as advanced, or more advanced, than the GFFA, that'll be a problem.

I'm also not clear on how leaving people behind to solve problems is some sort of achievement. Every leader has a hierarchy; Thrawn didn't invent that. I doubt even he could foresee a situation where he'd be trapped in another galaxy, so it's not like the people he left behind solved the mystery through any discernible competence. They learned that space whales took him, and then (apparently) realized that space whales could only have taken him to one place. That's reeeeeeally convenient.

I hope this all does end up making sense. It seems to be making perfect sense to you, so hopefully I'll catch up to where you're at.

 

[Khev]

He’s stuck in another galaxy. Interstellar travel is not possible in Star Wars via the regular hyperdrive on a ship

Where are you getting that idea? The Rebel fleet hid outside the galaxy all the way back in ESB and the Falcon headed off on its own to re-enter it in search of Han.

 

[chrisstbh]

If those things pan out to be true, then great! But Thrawn is supposed to be more than just "super smart." If there was a way from one galaxy to another, then it stands to reason that there's a way back.

There is a way, he just doesn't have it.

If Ahsoka, or anyone else, gets to that galaxy, then space whales can't be the only things capable of making the trek. So, this new galaxy will need to be presented as a true trap for Thrawn, the way you are characterizing it. If it's as advanced, or more advanced, than the GFFA, that'll be a problem.

That's what the giant hyperspace ring being built is for.

I'm also not clear on how leaving people behind to solve problems is some sort of achievement. Every leader has a hierarchy; Thrawn didn't invent that. I doubt even he could foresee a situation where he'd be trapped in another galaxy, so it's not like the people he left behind solved the mystery through any discernible competence.

Correct, but that's literally the only thing he could do in this unforeseen situation.

They learned that space whales took him, and then (apparently) realized that space whales could only have taken him to one place. That's reeeeeeally convenient.

It's been 10 years - and Morgan has claimed to be able to hear Thrawn calling to her through the force. But we don't have all the details on that yet.

Where are you getting that idea? The Rebel fleet hid outside the galaxy all the way back in ESB and the Falcon headed off on its own to re-enter it in search of Han.

View attachment 659171

This shot is actually something that's actually been debated and speculated quite a bit and there's no clear answer on it.



It's basically been retconned as a "protostar" and dying nebula and not the galaxy. But it's just yet another Star Wars "mystery" (inconsistency)

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Protostar
The Galaxy also has 2 satellite galaxies surrounding it, so it's also possible that it was one of these.

 

[The Buffinator]

Nightsister or not, Elsbeth apparently needed the aid of others to escape custody, so her threat level in isolation is already neutered by way of the plot context. And can't blame Ahsoka for having no greater confidence in a New Republic "high security" prison than she would in a New Republic security transfer ship. As far as I can tell, incompetence is the defining characteristic of the New Republic, so it wouldn't really make much difference.

I'd rather get explanations for a few other things that are making far less sense to me so far. Maybe it's only because I didn't watch any of Mando S3 that the plot logic in Ahsoka seems hopelessly deficient. Did I miss something that would explain any of the following:

1.) If Elsbeth is a Nightsister, and knew that the location of the starmap was at an ancient Nightsister temple, why hadn't she retrieved it herself and decoded it?

2.) Why is there even an ancient starmap that could possibly point to where Thrawn is? He was taken (to this galaxy far, far, farther away) by Ezra and his space whales right before the events of ANH. Not exactly ancient times, and not by design of the Nightsister clan. Unless the space whales could *only* choose this singular destination, I'm lost as to how there'd be such assurance that an ancient starmap would point the way specifically to Thrawn.

3.) How is knowing about a portal to another galaxy supposed to allow anyone to pinpoint Thrawn and/or his ship? Unless this new galaxy is the size of a Wal-Mart, are they expecting to just pull up to the first person they encounter and ask about a blue-skinned dude who would've shown up there several *years* earlier?

4.) If Thrawn is best suited to lead an Imperial revival, it'd be because of his incomparable intellect, so why would anyone else be able to beat him to a solution for returning? That would kinda negate his value as such a superior mind, wouldn't it?

Maybe these all have answers/explanations and I missed them, or maybe they're forthcoming, but right now there's so little that makes any sense to me. And considering the high probability (only IMO, of course) of Luke getting involved to set up the Filoni movie and pique as much wide-ranging interest in it as possible, I'd like the plot progression to actually be thought through enough to make sense.

OK, fair point regarding the widespread nature of the New Republic's incompetence. But I still say a high security prison would have been significantly harder to spring her from, even for Force wielders like Baylan and Shin.

Your #1 question is the one that bugs me as well. I guess we're meant to assume it was a timing thing and Ahsoka tracked Elsbeth down after she learned where the key may be hidden but before she could act on it. But I still get the sense that Filoni retroactively made Elsbeth a Nightsister and it wasn't in the cards back in Season 2 of Mando.

As for question #2, I thought it was explained that the star map & key were used by an ancient alien race to navigate hyperspace and that the Nightsisters discovered it and knew that they traveled along the Purrgil Expressway. So it's not supposed to pinpoint Thrawn but rather take them to the same place Ezra & the whales took him to at the end of Rebels. And I think it's a migratory thing with the whales, so it pretty much IS just that one destination/distant galaxy.

 

[Khev]

This shot is actually something that's actually been debated and speculated quite a bit and there's no clear answer on it.

To me there's nothing to debate if you go by the imagery in the film which is also corroborated by the ESB screenplay:

 

[Wor-Gar]

Protostar


Wasn't it the director of Dial of Destiny who said he'd never do another Lucasfilm movie because its all about easter eggs now. That, and retconning.

 

[chrisstbh]

To me there's nothing to debate if you go by the imagery in the film which is also corroborated by the ESB screenplay:

View attachment 659185

"A" galaxy, not "the" galaxy, and as above there are two satellite galaxies oribiting the main galaxy. It's been retconned in canon - leaving the galaxy is basically believed to be a death sentence. No one has gone outside of the galaxy and returned or ever been heard from again. There are no known hyperspace lanes out there.

Even the original shooting script and the novelisation contradicted the "luminous galaxy swirling in space" wiith "large red star... with one small planet". So if the writers can't even agree on what it is then it's no surprise that the fans can't either.

You can believe it's whatever you want though, but everything in the current canon suggests otherwise and I personally don't participate in "head canon", whatever is canon is canon and I either like it or I don't. It's a cheap ****** retcon but it's now a protostar.

Protostar


Wasn't it the director of Dial of Destiny who said he'd never do another Lucasfilm movie because its all about easter eggs now. That, and retconning.

Would it really be Lucasfilm without the "create problem fix it later through some dumb retcon and hope no one cares" mentality? It took them 40 years to retcon that exposed port in the Death Star to be intentional but they got around to it eventually .

 

[Khev]

Even the original shooting script and the novelisation contradicted the "luminous galaxy swirling in space" wiith "large red star... with one small planet". So if the writers can't even agree on what it is then it's no surprise that the fans can't either.

Well the film and script are in agreement so it's obvious that the novelization was wrong.

 

[chrisstbh]

Well the film and script are in agreement so it's obvious that the novelization was wrong.

And nothing that's come out since is in agreement. It was never stated in the film itself or in any canon material since to have been the galaxy. If you wanna believe that it is then that's fine, but for the stories being told it's not the galaxy.

We can blame Kathleen Kennedy again

 

[Mandible]

Well the numbers are in and it's tanked. Record lows around and under Andor.

Disney has handled the brand so poorly, I can't imagine someone even trying to ruin it, do worse. Dumb *****.

 

[The Buffinator]

And nothing that's come out since is in agreement. It was never stated in the film itself or in any canon material since to have been the galaxy. If you wanna believe that it is then that's fine, but for the stories being told it's not the galaxy.

We can blame Kathleen Kennedy again

THE galaxy? As in where Thrawn is? I don't think anyone was implying that, just that it was A galaxy, as opposed to something else like a protostar.

 

[Mondragon]

He’s stuck in another galaxy. Interstellar travel is not possible in Star Wars via the regular hyperdrive on a ship and all he had was a busted up Star Destroyer.

Who knows what resources are available wherever he is.

He's clearly been stuck in the *1970s Filmation Galaxy...

*where to survive he deemed it necessary to grow a 70s' pornstache.

 

[chrisstbh]

THE galaxy? As in where Thrawn is? I don't think anyone was implying that, just that it was A galaxy, as opposed to something else like a protostar.

No, THE galaxy as in the galaxy Star Wars is set.

 

[ZE_501]

They should have had the Mando mod-squad guy fix her up, and install one of those neat storage & cell phone charging compartments like Fennec got.

You suspend a lot of disbelief even when watching *good* Star Wars content, but this is the laziest, stupidest, lamest excuse for a cyborg I've ever seen. Literally just some pistons and rods slapped in to replace ... oh I don't know, a fully functional digestive system, compressing, truncating or replacing other organs amongst them ... lungs ... ??

They're not even pretending to try.

 

[jaztermareal]

He’s stuck in another galaxy. Interstellar travel is not possible in Star Wars via the regular hyperdrive on a ship and all he had was a busted up Star Destroyer.

Who knows what resources are available wherever he is.

He was smart by having people on standby that he could rely on to solve problems.

Not to be that guy but interstellar refers to star systems, so star to star. Star Wars hyperdrives do that all the time. Interplanetary travel (within a single star system) can be done with sublight drives in star wars. The term you were looking for was "intergalactic travel". That is what standard hyperdrives either are incapable of or just too slow to make practical.



(sorry, it is just that people use the terms interchangably all the time and it grinds my gears. I lost count of how many times people used intergalactic to describe space travel to nearby planets within a single star system for example). Another is when people mis-use the term timeline, E.G: "Phantom Menace takes place in a different timeline from Empire Strikes Back", no, as much as I would love it to be a separate timeline it is actually the same timeline but what the folk mean is a different point on the same timeline.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

Well the numbers are in and it's tanked. Record lows around and under Andor.

Disney has handled the brand so poorly, I can't imagine someone even trying to ruin it, do worse. Dumb *****.

Wow really?
I know Rebels and Filoni's other animations are very popular with a portion of the fandom but I don't know how big a portion that is.
I did wonder how viewing figures would play out. Sounds like for the first episodes, not great.
I thought it'd do better than this.
Perhaps it'll pick up as the season goes on.
If the whole season has low viewing figures, I wonder what affect that might have on the upcoming Filoniverse movie.

 

[wormlander]

Wow really?
I know Rebels and Filoni's other animations are very popular with a portion of the fandom but I don't know how big a portion that is.
I did wonder how viewing figures would play out. Sounds like for the first episodes, not great.
I thought it'd do better than this.
Perhaps it'll pick up as the season goes on.
If the whole season has low viewing figures, I wonder what affect that might have on the upcoming Filoniverse movie.

Not surprised at all. Couldn't even finish the first episode... Oh, and Mando seasons 1 & 2 are up for preorder on blu-ray. This is the way!