Star Wars: Andor (April 22, 2025)

[Wor-Gar]

Andor would just shoot that little Child as soon as it tried to get too cute with him.

I tol you -- dunt eat dat!!! BANG!

 

[ajp4mgs]

Let's be happy with Andor and allow Gilroy's focus to continue to make it good. I don't want to spread him too thin.

That said, I do think there is still room for a more action-oriented swashbuckling Star Wars in the OT vein -- Disney just needs to find that person who can pull it off without resorting to cheap tricks and infantile humor.

I think the key is to find someone who wants to take things back to the beginning and the basic fundamentals. Before 20-minute choreographed dance sequences with lightsabers became an expectation. Before Force powers were used so absurdly (Palpatine's extendo-lightning in TROS & Vader's no-effort ship decimation in OWK). Back to when dead actually meant dead, so that stakes in critical action sequences aren't undermined. Before stepping-in-poop jokes; before kids and baby versions of everything were central characters; and before MCU quips were a substitute for actual clever dialogue.

Get back to dogfights in space with awesome-looking ships. Back to that sense that anything could happen, and any character could die at any moment (and *stay* dead). Back to droid sidekicks that are endearing and provide levity with charm rather than slapstick. Back to the Force being something difficult to control and master, rather than just having lightning shoot out of a hand as unexpectedly as a wet fart. Make the villains proficient so that the heroes look more valiant, rather than just walking into enemy territory in their civilian clothes and repeatedly stumbling to victory by sheer luck or trooper incompetence.

The OT didn't need next-level writing. It stuck to the basics, but executed them to perfection. Classic concepts with a modern spin and innovative design/aesthetics. Again, it shouldn't be so difficult. It's freakin' Star Wars; there's no rocket science needed to make it work. They may not find too many Gilroys to create well-written character drama, but finding someone to follow a simple formula with new twists is seeming way more elusive than it should be.

 

[choombaz]

I think the key is finding people who just don’t give a a toss about SW because they can strip away all the trappings and get to the core of the story.

PS and they have to be someone who will stand up to the producers and say no and/or there is a level of trust and the producers just leave them alone.

 

[Prime Clone]

I've been putting some thought lately into whether I should just give up on Star Wars and move on. Difficult thing to do as I've been a fan for 40 years or so.

I hear ya. I've become a lot less hardcore since the Skywalker Saga finished, dropping back in and out as things grab my interest. I was pleasantly surprised by OWK but Andor is the only series that has really engaged me.

 

[Bleah]

I was horribly surprised by OWK

Fixed.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I think the key is to find someone who wants to take things back to the beginning and the basic fundamentals. Before 20-minute choreographed dance sequences with lightsabers became an expectation. Before Force powers were used so absurdly (Palpatine's extendo-lightning in TROS & Vader's no-effort ship decimation in OWK). Back to when dead actually meant dead, so that stakes in critical action sequences aren't undermined. Before stepping-in-poop jokes; before kids and baby versions of everything were central characters; and before MCU quips were a substitute for actual clever dialogue.

Get back to dogfights in space with awesome-looking ships. Back to that sense that anything could happen, and any character could die at any moment (and *stay* dead). Back to droid sidekicks that are endearing and provide levity with charm rather than slapstick. Back to the Force being something difficult to control and master, rather than just having lightning shoot out of a hand as unexpectedly as a wet fart. Make the villains proficient so that the heroes look more valiant, rather than just walking into enemy territory in their civilian clothes and repeatedly stumbling to victory by sheer luck or trooper incompetence.

The OT didn't need next-level writing. It stuck to the basics, but executed them to perfection. Classic concepts with a modern spin and innovative design/aesthetics. Again, it shouldn't be so difficult. It's freakin' Star Wars; there's no rocket science needed to make it work. They may not find too many Gilroys to create well-written character drama, but finding someone to follow a simple formula with new twists is seeming way more elusive than it should be.

The above has great insight. I read it a second time myself.

On reflection, I think you hit on something that Star Wars can never achieve again -- it's freshness.

It's too well-known. That's its biggest problem. When it came out, it was so bizarre -- costumes, ships, planets, droids, aliens, Vader, everything was so bizarre, recognizable but just so different -- that it need historical cliches and simple dialogue to ground it, to give the audience something easy to understand so they could absorb the un-understandable (at the time).

That simplicity will never work again in live-action Star Wars. We know that universe all too well. Which is why Gilroy's Star Wars works so well now -- it is the inverse of Lucas's Star Wars -- it is a world of subtlety, of complex dialogue, of less action and more nuance... it is everything the original Star Wars was not, and now THAT seems fresh.

 

[jkno]

Baby Yoda cameo next episode!

 

[ZE_501]

The above has great insight. I read it a second time myself.

On reflection, I think you hit on something that Star Wars can never achieve again -- it's freshness.

It's too well-known. That's its biggest problem. When it came out, it was so bizarre -- costumes, ships, planets, droids, aliens, Vader, everything was so bizarre, recognizable but just so different -- that it need historical cliches and simple dialogue to ground it, to give the audience something easy to understand so they could absorb the un-understandable (at the time).

That simplicity will never work again in live-action Star Wars. We know that universe all too well. Which is why Gilroy's Star Wars works so well now -- it is the inverse of Lucas's Star Wars -- it is a world of subtlety, of complex dialogue, of less action and more nuance... it is everything the original Star Wars was not, and now THAT seems fresh.

Excellent summation of where we are.

Many times I've said that Star Wars is simple popcorn fare and they don't need to over-complicate it, but you're dead-on when you point out the time and place these films were born.

Gilroy has given fans such as myself stories within this universe that have grown with me; it actually tracks closely to how I imagine things playing out, realized in beautiful detail. It's no over-complicated it's just deeper. (Relative to Star Wars, this is not Shakespeare and doesn't need to be.)

And if he's smart, he'll walk away, leaving us a couple of untouchable artifacts to place alongside the original trilogy, wishing for and imagining more.

(Careful what you wish for.)

 

[Mandible]

There's plenty of people that have the skill and ability to do it - but more than likely wouldn't go near it with a hundred foot pole; too much red tape, gate-keepers, corporate BS, current climate agendas, fan expectation, etc, etc, etc.

That fact that Gilroy doesn't give a **** about SW, and didn't give a **** when he told Lucasfilm their original concept for Andor was ****, and wrote back what he would do (expecting nothing more to come of it), is nothing short of a miracle that this thing got made.

He was pretty much given carte blanche, which is unheard of these days.

 

[TheBatman]

I wonder if they will do a Chirrut Îmwe spinoff with Wilson Yip directing.

 

[ajp4mgs]

The above has great insight. I read it a second time myself.

On reflection, I think you hit on something that Star Wars can never achieve again -- it's freshness.

It's too well-known. That's its biggest problem. When it came out, it was so bizarre -- costumes, ships, planets, droids, aliens, Vader, everything was so bizarre, recognizable but just so different -- that it need historical cliches and simple dialogue to ground it, to give the audience something easy to understand so they could absorb the un-understandable (at the time).

That simplicity will never work again in live-action Star Wars. We know that universe all too well. Which is why Gilroy's Star Wars works so well now -- it is the inverse of Lucas's Star Wars -- it is a world of subtlety, of complex dialogue, of less action and more nuance... it is everything the original Star Wars was not, and now THAT seems fresh.

You may be right, but I think the freshness can be regenerated to a certain extent. If you would've told me 10 years ago that there'd be another Mad Max sequel carrying over a good deal of the same essential aesthetics and yet still feel fresh, I would've had the same sort of doubts you're expressing about SW. But along came Fury Road to make it all feel fresh to me while finding it every bit as compelling as Road Warrior.

I know that the Fury Road example is purely subjective, but I hope you can at least see what I'm getting at. Take the familiar, keep what was great about it, do a lot of the same basic things, but crank it up a notch and inject a different sense of style to give all of it a breath of new life and feeling of freshness. For me, at least, it works that way.

The Mandalorian relies so much on the familiar, but if you hear a clip from that theme song, you'll probably have instant associations with that show that aren't necessarily shared with the rest of SW. I think enough freshness can be achieved by way of incorporating distinctive stylistic "newness." Something as mundane as an opening crawl was lifted from Flash Gordon and felt new in 1977 due in large part to the way it was energized by John Williams. I believe SW can still look and sound fresh without entirely changing what it is. But I think the focus needs to be on getting back to basics.

 

[jedibear]

The Mandalorian started out well, a simple. basic show that had the simple tried-n-true TV formula that worked and that was the old "Fugitive" one.
Character on the run, encountering new situations and people along the way. Then, Faloni's baloney showed up with the obsession of bringing all his cartoon characters to "life" and turning the show into a never-ending egg hunt or riffs on other franchises. It sucked the life out of what was interesting enough at the start.
BOBF was a sad case of the art and wardrobe department working hard and showing up, but the writers and director were MIA and the result was a disjointed mess that dismantled the character and left behind a nearly unwatchable mess.
Kenobi was just a miss on every level. Here was the character and situation that practically wrote itself and instead turned out to be a cheap looking poorly directed and acted debacle.

Andor. Ah, Andor! Wor really summed it up perfectly "Which is why Gilroy's Star Wars works so well now -- it is the inverse of Lucas's Star Wars -- it is a world of subtlety, of complex dialogue, of less action and more nuance... it is everything the original Star Wars was not, and now THAT seems fresh." I absolutely agree. Another take that fits is a comment I saw online where someone commented watching Andor was like reading a SW book. With so much detail, well-developed characters and glorious production, this show is exactly the approach that I was hoping D+/LFL would take with these streaming shows.

Will Andor be the new norm? Not likely. Like Rogue One, it will probably be a wonderful exception and the rule, sadly, will be more live-action cartoons packed with creepy CGI legacy characters and eggs galore.

 

[Mandible]

The plot thickens...

Another intriguing episode.

It's like peeling an onion, one careful layer at a time.

 

[chrisstbh]

I've been putting some thought lately into whether I should just give up on Star Wars and move on. Difficult thing to do as I've been a fan for 40 years or so.
Been considering Disneys efforts;
ST - to me personally a disaster. Let's never speak of it again.
Rogue One - not sure about this one, a mixed bag.
Solo - not good or bad. I don't feel a single emotion watching it.
The Mandalorian - used to be the best Star Wars produced under Disney
BoBF - wretched show. This was the one that made me question whether I'm still a Star Wars fan.
Kenobi - kicked me whilst I was down. Another dud.
Andor - ode to joy plays. Surpasses Mandalorian as the best Star Wars under Disney.

So I considered, where is my Star Wars love then?

The OT and some of the pre-PT EU; The Thrawn trilogy, the X-Wing books, the Tales From series, Shadows of the Empire etc etc. A few of the old Dark Horse coming like "Boba Fett Twin Engines of Destruction" for example.

I think, depending on how Andor finishes up, I'd add Andor to that list.

Not sure where that leaves Star Wars under Disney going forward, but Andor gives me some hope. Hopefully they'll let Gilroy make more Star Wars projects.

The stuff you love is still there .

I just don’t think about the stuff I don’t like. I forget the Sequels exist until they’re mentioned.

 

[jkno]

Will Andor be the new norm? Not likely. Like Rogue One, it will probably be a wonderful exception and the rule, sadly, will be more live-action cartoons packed with creepy CGI legacy characters and eggs galore.

The next show will be about Frog Lady and her eggs, and how one of her froggy younglings will become a woke Jedi to fight the Empire. This is what people these days enjoy.

 

[Mandible]

The next show will be about Frog Lady and her eggs, and how one of her froggy younglings will become a woke Jedi to fight the Empire. This is what people these days enjoy.

Is that what people want or what Hollyweird thinks people want?

Top Gun's success proves the majority of people just want to be entertained.

Hollywood has gone through many phases over the years, I just wish this phase would hurry up and **** off.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

The stuff you love is still there .

I just don’t think about the stuff I don’t like. I forget the Sequels exist until they’re mentioned.

Yeah, I still like the OT and the old EU (the old pre-PT EU)
I like Andor.
But I'm not interested in the new stuff. With a couple of exceptions Star Wars has moved in a direction I'm not going to follow.
I'll keep the stuff I like and get off here thanks.
It's fine, I've accepted it.

 

[Asta]

I think this episode returned to Lucas' pre-Star Wars era.

The white uniformed prisoners treated as machines, and the stark white decor of the prison recalled his original depiction of authoritarian rule in THX-1138.

It's going to be odd getting back to 'silly' Star Wars again when The Mandalorian returns with his green rat.

 

[e30ernest]

I like how this episode maintains a level of dread throughout the episode. This was another good one.

 

[ArtDamage]

Show keeping solid still I was pleasantly surprised by

Spoiler

Melshi's return. Who was the main guy in charge of the troops that landed on Scariff at the end of Rogue one

I did know he was going to be in the show and yet I completely forgot