Superman (July 11th, 2025)

[jye4ever]

I do agree with Clown for me personally I’m ready to move on from soley judging the movie based off the ugly new costume.

The costume is what it is there’s more to Superman than just that.

I’m not optimistic though that the movie will be great just because Gunn doesn’t do much for me with his weird wacky sensibilities.

This movie needs to be great, not just good.

 

[ZE_501]

Tornado suicide makes sense if you think more about it. Clark wasn’t ready to reveal his identity in front of everyone. Neither was the society.

Too dark for my view of Superman. As to whether or not it 'makes sense' well it was in the script, but IMO it shouldn't have been. Someone wrote that situation and its outcome and if you like it, you'll call it daring and if you don't, you'll charge that it's off-brand.

He can also move incredibly quickly; maybe too quick for any of the general public to clock what really happened had he intervened, although I suppose the argument against that would be that he hadn't fully come into his abilities yet.

It also was a character defining moment for him.

It had to happen, if not he could’ve ended up being a farm boy for his entire life not stepping up to his true potential. That was the main string anchoring him to a normal life.

I don't think it had to happen, given that any number of Clark Kent incarnations have become Superman without dad feeding himself to a tornado in front of him.

A different thread could have been found, but Snyder chose his direction and no doubt that's why his films are very divisive.

 

[Nick D]

This movie needs to be great, not just good.

Genuinely great, if it isn’t but performs fantastically, we’re going to be strapped in for his vision for years like Snyder. Sounds exhausting.

Enough of this world building ****, it’s tedious and does nothing to progress a story. All it’s there for is to grant them the ability and access to more films and more money. We were tired of Snyder because he couldn’t pick a character and hone in on fleshing them out, producing a fulfilling story.

What do we think we’re getting with this? Just a stepping stone towards another Justice League.

After the Nolan trilogy, I tuned out of DC completely for years and years until Joker 2019 came out, somewhat shining a bit of hope for storytelling, only to rip it from us in the lousy sequel that only took five years to produce.

That’s how much of a lack of a fan of Snyder’s work I am. Still, what happened? This is making me long for a version of Superman I at times even forgot existed.

 

[The Buffinator]

Because he looks like a kid,
this is Superboy.

If it wasn’t for the plot armor making him some God with abilities never seen before, you’d never buy that he’s that, when looking at his face, his physique, his suit.

It screams cosplay. If Superman doesn’t have the correct stature and build, your mind simply cannot let you immerse in the physical feats you’re watching him overcome before your eyes.

To put it into perspective, say Hot Toys put a figure with this suit up for PO, before any trailer, before any news about what the new Superman would ultimately look like. It would sit on Sideshow forever.

Again, recency bias. This guy's physique is no worse than that of all those other actors I mentioned. And back then 'cosplay' wasn't even part of the lexicon lol. Perhaps you're too young to have watched any of those previous iterations, but people had no trouble believing those guys were Superman. YOU may have difficulty buying into his having God-like abilities due to his stature, but you shouldn't assume the same for the rest of us.

Tell me, in The Flash did you dismiss Sasha Calle's Supergirl abilities because she wasn't built like Gina Carano?

 

[Nick D]

I don't think it had to happen, given that any number of Clark Kent incarnations have become Superman without dad feeding himself to a tornado in front of him.

A different thread could have been found, but Snyder chose his direction and no doubt that's why his films are very divisive.

It certainly had to, his earth father taught him everything he could in their time spent together, shaping him into the man he’s meant to become. Once that is done, the character needs to be removed from the story so his impact to it can be felt.

With his passing, it lit a flame under Clark.
It traumatized him, deathly afraid to lose his mother, just like Bruce’s trauma.

Clark returning back to the farm to visit both parents is no way to tell a story that pulls at heartstrings. Give your character motivation to rise up above.

 

[Dave_W]

I'm in the 'Jonathan should be dead' camp. It seems obvious, but it's the 'I can't save everyone' lesson. Then he spends his life trying to prove himself wrong.

 

[Nick D]

Again, recency bias. This guy's physique is no worse than that of all those other actors I mentioned. And back then 'cosplay' wasn't even part of the lexicon lol. Perhaps you're too young to have watched any of those previous iterations, but people had no trouble believing those guys were Superman. YOU may have difficulty buying into his having God-like abilities due to his stature, but you shouldn't assume the same for the rest of us.

Tell me, in The Flash did you dismiss Sasha Calle's Supergirl abilities because she wasn't built like Gina Carano?

Firstly,
I’ve never seen The Flash, nor would I ever.

So that is lost on me. Who is Sasha Celle?
A character or actress? Unfamiliar.

I’m not speaking solely on his physique underneath the suit. Clearly in this interpretation, we’re not going to see it as it’s completely hidden from view.

Superman should not be in loose clothing.
That’s what the Clark Kent character is for, to separate himself from the hero.

You need to see muscles or some kind of mass present. Reeve didn’t look like a bodybuilder but his stature and face made up for which he lacked, on top of being an actor with more on his mind and plate than just being Superman.

Can this kid act? Balance genuine human emotion and his alien being counterpart?

 

[T8OO]

He also heard Lois pounding on concrete underwater when she was trapped under rubble & drowning while trying to get the Kryptonite spear. As I recall, that was while he, Batman and WW were noisily combating Doomsday in Gotham (i.e., one of those large cities you mentioned) and he had no reason to think she was in any danger. I guess she hits concrete in a unique manner, or perhaps she was pounding in Morse code lol. The point is, ZS wasn't consistent in using Superman's abilities in this area. At times it tracked just fine, at other times not so much.

Yes he heard her pounding on some concrete whilst underwater IN THE SAME area. Not anywhere within two cities.
He was very constant with the powers. This is just the usual pick at Snyder's movies without thinking.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Ariana Grande just proved to the world that you don’t have to be a trained actor to be a good actor.

She gave an Oscar worthy performance in Wicked so it is possible.

It's way harder than it looks. Acting, at the highest level, with this kind of investment made, is incredibly hard. All of it is incredibly hard - Screenwriting, composing a score, doing the marketing, casting, etc, etc. You can squeeze out a good single performace out of an inexperienced and untrained actor with little to no resume, but no investor is going to want to bet on that. There is a natural "feeder system" in place, and the young talent pipeline already shapes most of the potential choices for roles like this.

A good looking muscular young man who "looks the part" for Superman is a dime a dozen. The ability to execute at this level, and consistently deliver, with this much pressure and attrition is not common.

In the scene above, that's Greg Wood, who is virtually unknown except for this short role in The Sixth Sense. What he was able to convey in about 30 seconds of screen time and a single line of dialogue is pretty staggering. That's incredibly hard to do. It's hard to do it over and over again. And it's hard to do when under massive pressure to get it right very quickly.

Something I always say is people here are going to watch the film anyway ( Fill in the blank, this time it's Superman, last time it was something else) . So why not give it a real chance when you do?

 

[i_amjam]

I feel like we are forgetting this guy playing Superman is 6'4". He's definitely got the stature to be an imposing figure. There's every chance his acting performance could fall flat and do injustice to the character, but isn't this conversation of whether or not we think a casting is bad pointless from precedent? Hell, even Christopher Reeve wasn't really notable as an actor prior to Superman and he is most people's ideal image of the character.

 

[Frenchy]

It also was a character defining moment for him.

It had to happen, if not he could’ve ended up being a farm boy for his entire life not stepping up to his true potential. That was the main string anchoring him to a normal life.

For me it's not my interpretation of the scene :

the father dies because he absolutely wants to protect the secrets of Superman's powers, even at the cost of his life, which makes no sense because Clark lifted a school bus when he was a child...

And his sacrifice is ridiculous because it's to save a dog, and in the midst of the chaos of this tornado, Superman even without flying is able to be fast enough to save his father without anyone noticing. or even if someone had noticed, it could have been like in "Spider-man 2" in the subway scene, with the people keeping the secret.

After this incident he becomes rather bitter and searches for meaning in his life for several years. it looks like Batman begins. It's too dark for Superman, he must become Superman because he is inspired by the goodness of his parents,
But in the movie Jonathan kent doesn't want to help the world because it's too dangerous for his son, he even says at one point that Clark should have let his classmates drown, what an inspiration...

it is rather the attack of the Kryptonians and Jor-El's speech which makes him gain confidence and decides to become superman.

 

[Nick D]

For me it's not my interpretation of the scene :

the father dies because he absolutely wants to protect the secrets of Superman's powers, even at the cost of his life, which makes no sense because Clark lifted a school bus when he was a child...

And his sacrifice is ridiculous because it's to save a dog, and in the midst of the chaos of this tornado, Superman even without flying is able to be fast enough to save his father without anyone noticing. or even if someone had noticed, it could have been like in "Spider-man 2" in the subway scene, with the people keeping the secret.

After this incident he becomes rather bitter and searches for meaning in his life for several years. it looks like Batman begins. It's too dark for Superman, he must become Superman because he is inspired by the goodness of his parents,
But in the movie Jonathan kent doesn't want to help the world because it's too dangerous for his son, he even says at one point that Clark should have let his classmates drown, what an inspiration...

it is rather the attack of the Kryptonians and Jor-El's speech which makes him gain confidence and decides to become superman.

I’m not speaking on the father’s personal motivations in the scene. I’m talking about what it’d ultimately do for the Clark Kent character having him lose his father in a catastrophic event.

He himself knew he could save him,
but instead was told not to. That builds character, something from his past that will haunt him, but also ignite him. Why on earth would you write the story for Clark to speed run in and save his dad from a tornado? That’s not a story worth fleshing out and putting to screen.

You don’t make a film where Superman is perfect and saves each and everyone.

Bruce couldn’t save everyone by the end of TDK, so what’s he do? He takes the blame and fall for Dent, had he been able to bring Harvey back at the end before death, there’d be zero impact in the film’s closing.

You want audiences to take interest and relate to what they’re watching in some degree or fashion? You drag your main character through hell and back, have them face tough decisions and make sacrifices like us real world people have to in this thing we call life.

You want a Batman that was able to save his parents? Or a Spiderman that was able to save Gwen? Your hero is only as strong as the conflict around him.

If Superman is completely invincible in this film and is able to save everyone then I consider it a waste of my viewing time.
The comics exist to be able to retcon anything that happens to the character, in turn making each new storyline that much more watered down from the last.

 

[Dave_W]

The priest telling Clark to take a leap of faith was more instrumental in Clark becoming Superman than Jonathan was. Incredible!

If he had his way, the school kids would have drowned and Zod would have destroyed Earth looking for Clark while he hid.

 

[SpiderBat]

Ma and Pa Kent were both alive during the Post Crisis era and in the '90s animated series, both of which are probably two of the most well known and beloved iterations of the character. In those, Clark becomes Superman because he's a good guy who wants to do the right thing and use his powers to help people. Not every superhero needs to be driven by the death of a family member they're trying to make up for or avenge.

 

[T8OO]

Yup that's exactly how the Snyder films felt to me as well. MOS a bit less so, probably because Nolan helped write the story and they were trying to make a more broadly appealing movie to launch their new universe, but BVS was nothing but obnoxious teenage angst.

Gunn may not be nearly as good with the visuals, but he's a far better storyteller in my book. And even if the later Guardians films weren't at the level of the first, they were still far deeper and more emotionally compelling than much of what we got in the DCEU.

Zack didn't write BvS. GOTG2 and 3 were the only ones Gunn wrote on his own.

 

[ZE_501]

It certainly had to, his earth father taught him everything he could in their time spent together, shaping him into the man he’s meant to become. Once that is done, the character needs to be removed from the story so his impact to it can be felt.

I'm not arguing whether or not Pa Kent has to die. My contention is that the manner in which Snyder killed him off was a bridge too far.

 

[jye4ever]

I feel like we are forgetting this guy playing Superman is 6'4". He's definitely got the stature to be an imposing figure. There's every chance his acting performance could fall flat and do injustice to the character, but isn't this conversation of whether or not we think a casting is bad pointless from precedent? Hell, even Christopher Reeve wasn't really notable as an actor prior to Superman and he is most people's ideal image of the character.

You are not wrong, he does have the height I just wish the frame was a tad bit more muscular…

Overall a good looking Superman in need of a better costume is all.

 

[Nick D]

The priest telling Clark to take a leap of faith was more instrumental in Clark becoming Superman than Jonathan was. Incredible!

If he had his way, the school kids would have drowned and Zod would have destroyed Earth looking for Clark while he hid.

Perhaps view it from the father’s perspective.

He knew what would happen to his son had his abilities been unearthed at a premature moment in time, or even at all. As a parent, it’s genuine to behave like that, to be selfish.

I see it as the father wanting his son to have a normal life for as long as he can until his son is able to make that decision for himself.

Had the world found out about his powers as a kid, he’d be sheltered from any and everyone, having tests performed on him day in, day out. The military trying to weaponize him. You name it.

Which would ultimately have the same effect on his psyche as if he were born and raised on Krypton his entire life unable to form any empathy for Earth and its inhabitants, basically, he’d be another Zod.

 

[T8OO]

The priest telling Clark to take a leap of faith was more instrumental in Clark becoming Superman than Jonathan was. Incredible!

If he had his way, the school kids would have drowned and Zod would have destroyed Earth looking for Clark while he hid.

He was already saving people, he had also had the suit and can fly. The priest just helped him trust what mankind would do.

 

[ZE_501]

Ma and Pa Kent were both alive during the Post Crisis era and in the '90s animated series, both of which are probably two of the most well known and beloved iterations of the character. In those, Clark becomes Superman because he's a good guy who wants to do the right thing and use his powers to help people. Not every superhero needs to be driven by the death of a family member they're trying to make up for or avenge.

100%. Of course there's a narrative device/precedent for divesting with parents/mentors of heroes, but how it's done matters and in the case of small town, apple pie Clark Kent you could argue it's not necessary.

Sticking a nice guy with godlike powers and a hero complex in the complicated and often violent modern world, one guy in a sea of 8 billion angry mortals ... there's plenty of fodder for conflict and tough choices right there.

Dead or not, what we didn't need (in my opinion) is Pa Kent telling him not to save a bus full of kids or telling him "No son, watch me die on the chance you get outed as a Super".

It was small town USA -- he could have said Jesus saved him and it likely would have flown (no pun intended).