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Loving this show im on the healing preacher episode right now. Really good so far
 
Actually, I think the circumstances are different enough.

I've only watched the beginning of season six once (and only a couple episodes - I didn't bother with much of season six or season seven, and I'm back this year because Sera Gamble's gone. She ruined the show, IMO)........but I don't recall Dean completely giving up on Sam while knowing he was in hell and changing his cell phone or the show any time outright stating that he was avoiding other hunters.

And then there's Kevin. The truly huge difference is Kevin.

If the roles were reversed, do you think Dean would've abandoned Kevin like Sam did? That's the biggest issue here, IMO.

My point is that there's not even any dialogue in the show bringing these points up. If I was getting hounded all day about something I thought the other guy had also done, I'd at least mention it and air it out.
 
My point is that there's not even any dialogue in the show bringing these points up. If I was getting hounded all day about something I thought the other guy had also done, I'd at least mention it and air it out.

Yes, this has bugged me also. Dean was going on about these "supernatural" killings happening whilst Sam was living his normal life and Sam didn't do anything about it. When Sam was sent to hell, Dean stopped hunting, he got a normal job and made a home with Lisa and Ben. There would have been plenty of "supernatural" events happening whilst Dean was living his life.

Besides there's one big difference, Sam was COMPLETELY alone when Dean disappeared. Unlike for Dean when Sam was gone, he still had Bobby and Cas and returned to be with Lisa and Ben. For Sam, Bobby was dead, Cas was gone and there was no woman he could lean on for support.

I think it was wrong of him to abandon Kevin, definitely, but he'd lost everyone he loved and all he had left was his life.

Sam wants out of this hunting life and Dean basically won't let him. This journey started out with them looking for their father, but they did that years ago and then there's always been something else come up. That's the thing, there will always be something else. Even if they close the gates of hell for good, that doesn't stop the other freaks and monsters that they continue to come across.
 
Actually, I think the circumstances are different enough.

I've only watched the beginning of season six once (and only a couple episodes - I didn't bother with much of season six or season seven, and I'm back this year because Sera Gamble's gone. She ruined the show, IMO)........but I don't recall Dean completely giving up on Sam while knowing he was in hell and changing his cell phone or the show any time outright stating that he was avoiding other hunters.

And then there's Kevin. The truly huge difference is Kevin.

If the roles were reversed, do you think Dean would've abandoned Kevin like Sam did? That's the biggest issue here, IMO.

My point is that there's not even any dialogue in the show bringing these points up. If I was getting hounded all day about something I thought the other guy had also done, I'd at least mention it and air it out.

Yes, this has bugged me also. Dean was going on about these "supernatural" killings happening whilst Sam was living his normal life and Sam didn't do anything about it. When Sam was sent to hell, Dean stopped hunting, he got a normal job and made a home with Lisa and Ben. There would have been plenty of "supernatural" events happening whilst Dean was living his life.

Besides there's one big difference, Sam was COMPLETELY alone when Dean disappeared. Unlike for Dean when Sam was gone, he still had Bobby and Cas and returned to be with Lisa and Ben. For Sam, Bobby was dead, Cas was gone and there was no woman he could lean on for support.

I think it was wrong of him to abandon Kevin, definitely, but he'd lost everyone he loved and all he had left was his life.

Sam wants out of this hunting life and Dean basically won't let him. This journey started out with them looking for their father, but they did that years ago and then there's always been something else come up. That's the thing, there will always be something else. Even if they close the gates of hell for good, that doesn't stop the other freaks and monsters that they continue to come across.

I figured I'd weigh in on all of this. I can appreciate what DarthIndy is saying. You would think Sam would call out for his double-standards, but I guess it is what it is.

I tend to side with Dean on all of this though. When Sam went to Hell, Dean had a family to care for, including a child. And for that matter, he never really gave up on his hunting ways. Even though he didn't actively go out there, he was itching for a fight and always looking over his shoulder (or at least that was my impression.)

When Dean went to Purgatory however, Sam just went MIA. And I'm getting the impression that he literally just dropped everything and moved on. Dean never did that. And while Bobby and Cas were gone, I just don't see that being an excuse. What I do see is the problem is that Sam never wanted this lifestyle to begin with. Dean dragged him back in. I think that's the difference between the two brothers. Dean lives and breathes the 'family' business, while Sam would give it all up for a normal life (and I can't really blame him.)

I think it's all a matter of opinion and how you look at it. In Dean's perfect world, his brother and him would ride around in Baby, hunting until they take their last breath. Dean knows Sam doesn't feel that way, but WISHES he did. Almost like the brother he's always wanted (which in Sam's defense, he is for the most part.) As for Sam, well, we saw in the last episode that he was inquiring about law school. I think if Dean weren't in the picture, Sam would go back to that pre-S1 life and rightfully so. That's just who he is.
 
New. Episode. Tonight.

The previews look awesome. It's got a documentary feel to it, like the Blair Witch Project. Should be a different change of pace than we're used to seeing.
 
I figured I'd weigh in on all of this. I can appreciate what DarthIndy is saying. You would think Sam would call out for his double-standards, but I guess it is what it is.

I tend to side with Dean on all of this though. When Sam went to Hell, Dean had a family to care for, including a child. And for that matter, he never really gave up on his hunting ways. Even though he didn't actively go out there, he was itching for a fight and always looking over his shoulder (or at least that was my impression.)

When Dean went to Purgatory however, Sam just went MIA. And I'm getting the impression that he literally just dropped everything and moved on. Dean never did that. And while Bobby and Cas were gone, I just don't see that being an excuse. What I do see is the problem is that Sam never wanted this lifestyle to begin with. Dean dragged him back in. I think that's the difference between the two brothers. Dean lives and breathes the 'family' business, while Sam would give it all up for a normal life (and I can't really blame him.)

I think it's all a matter of opinion and how you look at it. In Dean's perfect world, his brother and him would ride around in Baby, hunting until they take their last breath. Dean knows Sam doesn't feel that way, but WISHES he did. Almost like the brother he's always wanted (which in Sam's defense, he is for the most part.) As for Sam, well, we saw in the last episode that he was inquiring about law school. I think if Dean weren't in the picture, Sam would go back to that pre-S1 life and rightfully so. That's just who he is.

Well no, Sam didnt just drop everything like Dean didnt just drop everything.

Dean took on Ben, Lisa's child like his own. Sam wouldnt go and have a child with someone because he knows exactly what would happen; it would be a huge crosshair like they were for John and Mary. They wouldnt have their own blood as much as they probably would love to as seen in episodes like season 2's 'What is and What should never be', and in various other episodes where Dean says he always dreamt of sam having a wife and kids? Green lawn?

Sams closest thing to a child is a Dog. Remember Bones, from one of Sams greatest hits in Heaven? Sharing Pizza watching TV and having his best friend from Season 5's 'Dark side of the moon'? Thats his child with Amelia.

its hypocritical from Dean, because like he said he promised he wouldnt look for Sam, he tried for a bit but stopped. Dean had Castiel and Bobby if he needed them but he elected to give up and cut contact and they did the same.

Sam had nobody. Where does he turn to? Where could he go? Everybody was dead. Bobby and Cas were gone, the only two people left in the world after John, Ellen, Jo, Ash, Pamela, Chuck, Rufus. Then Gwen, Christian and Sam Campbell are gone too. Theres Zero support network anymore.

And the thing with Sam returning, is the fact that Castiel, Bobby and Samuel didnt contact Dean to say Sam had returned, whereas Dean went straight to sam for the reason that? Theres Zero support network and he has nowhere and nobody to goto.

I mean, I keep harping about 'What is and what should never be', but in that alternate reality Dean see's the plane crash from Season 1's 'phantom Traveler' and how not being hunters saw every 'tragedy' happen, which demons or creatures they killed are responsible for. But that was Deans revelation, not Sams.

Sam quit the job before and is capable of functioning without it. He can leave it behind, goto Stanford and be with Jess. He can just as easily walk away and life a happy life with Amelia.

Dean CANNOT live without the job. Hence the salt lines, devils trap, holy water and silver bullet-equipped colt under the bed, sawn off in the cupboard, Impala in the garage with a throw-over and everything loaded just in case. I know Sam would make some precautions, but he can live without the job.

Dean going to hell brought him Alive, his torture skills from Alistair, the fact that Purgatory yet again brings Dean Alive; constant hunting, the thrill of improvisation and survival. Its who dean is, he enjoys the killing and torturing.

The one episode that always gets me a tear is from Season 4 and is possibly my most favourite, 'after school special' and that to me is the perfect episode to sum up Sam and Dean; everyone saw Dean as cool at first, but he was a freak. He wasn't like everybody else. Sam was seen as a quiet geek, but after standing up to Dirk everybody accepted him and thought he was cool. it was Sam who would end up getting both the girl and the life.

Dean was a playboy with a broken personality trying to be his Dad who truly is a hero but nobody knows it, and they just laugh at him in embarrassment when he tells people.
 
Loving this show im on the healing preacher episode right now. Really good so far

Episode 12, faith!

You've got to admit, Blue Oyster Cult and the realisation that theyre dealing with A reaper (not Mr Death himself! yet!) and it cutting to the runner being stalked. Pure brilliance.

That and like, i grew up with Blue oyster cult and the music used in the programme.

keep watching! its the greatest programme on tv!
 
I disagree with your points in bold, but we do agree on some of the same things here, wording it in our way.

Well no, Sam didnt just drop everything like Dean didnt just drop everything.

Sam DID drop everything (i.e. hunting) because that's what he told Dean he did in WNTTAK.

Sam: 'I don't hunt anymore.'

Dean: 'You quit?'

Sam: 'Yeah.'

its hypocritical from Dean, because like he said he promised he wouldnt look for Sam, he tried for a bit but stopped. Dean had Castiel and Bobby if he needed them but he elected to give up and cut contact and they did the same.

Sam had nobody. Where does he turn to? Where could he go?

Everybody was dead. Bobby and Cas were gone, the only two people left in the world after John, Ellen, Jo, Ash, Pamela, Chuck, Rufus. Then Gwen, Christian and Sam Campbell are gone too. Theres Zero support network anymore.

And the thing with Sam returning, is the fact that Castiel, Bobby and Samuel didnt contact Dean to say Sam had returned, whereas Dean went straight to sam for the reason that? Theres Zero support network and he has nowhere and nobody to goto.

Looking for Sam and giving up the family 'biz are not one in the same. That's not my point. But on the subject, I'm aware of the promise Dean made to Sam in 'Swan Song,' but two things: 1.) Dean made the promise because Sam wanted him to (against Dean's wishes) and 2.) I don't think it's fair to assume Dean would expect Sam not look for him should the roles be reversed. Sure, part of his (Sam's) reasoning was because Dean, Cas, and Bobby were 'dead'....but Dean wasn't dead, as Dean pointed out. Being locked up in fail-proof cage, in Hell, with Lucifer and Michael vs. being taken to Purgatory with an angel....the circumstances are bit different and the odds of coming back were a bit more in Dean's favor, I'd say (even though both have unrealistic odds, in the grand scheme of things.) Arguably the most hurtful notion for Dean to comprehend though was that Sam didn't even look for him. That's not something Dean expected of Sam, which is why Dean pointed it out so sarcastically.

Sam is different now. This isn't the same S4 Sam who looked for his brother, hunting to no end (e.g. 'Lazarus Rising'), which is again why I feel it's NOT hypocritical of Dean to point out the flaws in Sam's reasoning. And the lack of a search party with Cas and Bobby is a two-way street. They weren't there for Sam, but nor were they really there for Dean either.

Getting back to my point though, I can't ignore Kevin and Meg, who Sam knew had been taken by Crowley. And rather than look for Kevin (or Meg), who obviously played an integral part in just about everything current, Sam knowingly looked the other way. So, no, everyone wasn't dead, nor would Dean do the same as Sam in this situation. There's too much riding in the balance. At the end of S5, the Apocalypse had been averted. All was right in the world, mostly. We couldn't say that at the end of S7, especially with Crowley's army growing. There was much work to be done, which again why I feel Dean's reaction was justified.

Sam quit the job before and is capable of functioning without it. He can leave it behind.

Agreed, but that's not an excuse to 'exit left' once the anchor (Dean) is gone, which was subsequently Dean's point. This wasn't a Sam who spent days, upon weeks, upon months, hunting in his brother's absence (not to mention even attempting to look him.) This is a Sam who was looking for a way out, IMO. And he got his opportunity with Dean out of the picture. No matter what the circumstance was for Dean in S6, he always kept the car stocked and the phones ready, itching to return should the time call. Heck, I even remember him sneaking phone calls around Lisa, following up on 'hunches' that may involve anything remotely close to the 'biz that he supposedly gave up. 'Exile on Main St.' was a great example to illustrate that. Dean never truly gave up hunting, his passion, even in the face of having to care for a family (which accordingly was not something he created post 'Swan Song.' It was something he already HAD, unlike Sam's situation.) No matter how anyone wants to reason the comparison, it is what it is.

We can't even say that about Sam, who 'ditched the phones' somewhat shortly after the events of 'Survival of the Fittest,' which is another reason why Dean was disappointed, knowing Kevin's uncertain fate. No matter how much Dean was committed to a family life, he never lost his hunter's mentality. Sam willingly turned the other way though. It's not who he wants to be. And I can appreciate that. It's no life for anyone to live. There's a lot of heartache. And why should Sam NOT look for love and happiness? I agree with you. But in this case, it was the wrong place. Wrong time. Wrong way to go about doing it, which is why I find it hard to call Dean out for being hypocritical. I can appreciate many of your points though, so don't get me wrong. I do understand where Sam is coming from and Dean has done plenty of his own wrong doings in the past, but this is one of those times I'm siding strongly with Dean.
 
That was awesome. Of course he's still a silly teenager with fangs and claws though...god forbid they use an actual werewolf costume. :monkey1
 
That was awesome. Of course he's still a silly teenager with fangs and claws though...god forbid they use an actual werewolf costume. :monkey1

What a great, great episode. This is one of the best filler eps. I've seen from this show, in a LONG time.

I loved everything about it. The 'found footage' style worked so well. And even though the werewolf angle was something we've seen many time before, it really felt fresh. I can't praise it enough. And surprisingly, I liked the idea of keeping the Winchesters 'in the background' and letting some random characters run the show for an hour.

I also wanted to mention the music selection in this ep. I really enjoyed it. (Some we don't get much of anymore.) And it helped set the mood, especially when Dean and Sam left the house in the end and we saw the last of Kate.

I'm really impressed. I can't stress it enough. Just well done, cast and crew.

And on a side note (and maybe it's a product of 'found footage' style), but some of the opening credits played at the end. It just happened to catch my eye and was one of those 'huh' moments.
 
I don't really watch the show anymore because every episode (imo) feels like the same recycled crap over and over, but I really enjoyed this one. The way the story played out was just perfect. Was surprised at how accurate the socialization of the kids was also.
 
I don't really watch the show anymore because every episode (imo) feels like the same recycled crap over and over, but I really enjoyed this one. The way the story played out was just perfect. Was surprised at how accurate the socialization of the kids was also.

I'm still a faithful watcher every week, but I agree that this felt like a breath of air. (And that's not me knockin' the show.) It's just something I didn't expect from them. I think Carver is really going to raise the bar this season.
 
I disagree with your points in bold, but we do agree on some of the same things here, wording it in our way.



Sam DID drop everything (i.e. hunting) because that's what he told Dean he did in WNTTAK.

Sam: 'I don't hunt anymore.'

Dean: 'You quit?'

Sam: 'Yeah.'



Looking for Sam and giving up the family 'biz are not one in the same. That's not my point. But on the subject, I'm aware of the promise Dean made to Sam in 'Swan Song,' but two things: 1.) Dean made the promise because Sam wanted him to (against Dean's wishes) and 2.) I don't think it's fair to assume Dean would expect Sam not look for him should the roles be reversed. Sure, part of his (Sam's) reasoning was because Dean, Cas, and Bobby were 'dead'....but Dean wasn't dead, as Dean pointed out. Being locked up in fail-proof cage, in Hell, with Lucifer and Michael vs. being taken to Purgatory with an angel....the circumstances are bit different and the odds of coming back were a bit more in Dean's favor, I'd say (even though both have unrealistic odds, in the grand scheme of things.) Arguably the most hurtful notion for Dean to comprehend though was that Sam didn't even look for him. That's not something Dean expected of Sam, which is why Dean pointed it out so sarcastically.

Sam is different now. This isn't the same S4 Sam who looked for his brother, hunting to no end (e.g. 'Lazarus Rising'), which is again why I feel it's NOT hypocritical of Dean to point out the flaws in Sam's reasoning. And the lack of a search party with Cas and Bobby is a two-way street. They weren't there for Sam, but nor were they really there for Dean either.

Getting back to my point though, I can't ignore Kevin and Meg, who Sam knew had been taken by Crowley. And rather than look for Kevin (or Meg), who obviously played an integral part in just about everything current, Sam knowingly looked the other way. So, no, everyone wasn't dead, nor would Dean do the same as Sam in this situation. There's too much riding in the balance. At the end of S5, the Apocalypse had been averted. All was right in the world, mostly. We couldn't say that at the end of S7, especially with Crowley's army growing. There was much work to be done, which again why I feel Dean's reaction was justified.



Agreed, but that's not an excuse to 'exit left' once the anchor (Dean) is gone, which was subsequently Dean's point. This wasn't a Sam who spent days, upon weeks, upon months, hunting in his brother's absence (not to mention even attempting to look him.) This is a Sam who was looking for a way out, IMO. And he got his opportunity with Dean out of the picture. No matter what the circumstance was for Dean in S6, he always kept the car stocked and the phones ready, itching to return should the time call. Heck, I even remember him sneaking phone calls around Lisa, following up on 'hunches' that may involve anything remotely close to the 'biz that he supposedly gave up. 'Exile on Main St.' was a great example to illustrate that. Dean never truly gave up hunting, his passion, even in the face of having to care for a family (which accordingly was not something he created post 'Swan Song.' It was something he already HAD, unlike Sam's situation.) No matter how anyone wants to reason the comparison, it is what it is.

We can't even say that about Sam, who 'ditched the phones' somewhat shortly after the events of 'Survival of the Fittest,' which is another reason why Dean was disappointed, knowing Kevin's uncertain fate. No matter how much Dean was committed to a family life, he never lost his hunter's mentality. Sam willingly turned the other way though. It's not who he wants to be. And I can appreciate that. It's no life for anyone to live. There's a lot of heartache. And why should Sam NOT look for love and happiness? I agree with you. But in this case, it was the wrong place. Wrong time. Wrong way to go about doing it, which is why I find it hard to call Dean out for being hypocritical. I can appreciate many of your points though, so don't get me wrong. I do understand where Sam is coming from and Dean has done plenty of his own wrong doings in the past, but this is one of those times I'm siding strongly with Dean.

Thing with Sam is, he can just run away from things. He just upped and left Dean and John. Although Soulless, he came back almost instantly he didnt bother informing or seeking Dean. Sam promised to leave him alone so he did.

I mean, yeah he left Kevin to crowley, but thats life in the end. Its Always got to be sam and dean doing everything. Theres coming a point where, theyre just going to continue having no life to save others who have lives, theyre going to die young, bloody over and over. As a viewer, i get abit tired of 'yep theyre dead but they are going to come back'. Theres no shock factor there. I think they need to kill one of them off for good and I think that its got to be Dean. Its just annoying knowing neither of them will die and theyll always come back.

Same with this season. Sam didnt look, because he didnt want to really. All they do is die/go somewhere, search for each other, get depressed, hit the bottle, go off the scale and then the other comes back. But I think sam though that one day its all gotta stop and just accept someone is gone. I think Sams just tired and after being the special kid with Azazel, dying at least 3 times, having lucifer ride him to hell, having the wall crumble, having lucifer ride him on earth, losing his soul.

Deans not had any of that. He's had Michael try to ride him, but nothing came of it. Sam said yes, Dean didnt. Dean wasn't the special demon blood kid, he never lost his soul, he never had lucifer riding his mind. Yeah he went to hell and went dark side in there but then he embraces his tortue skills from Alistair. He chose to erase Ben and Lisa's minds of their memories of him which killed him inside. But I think thats the parallels; I dont believe sam would do what Dean does for the job. I reckon Sam wouldve stayed with Lisa and Ben due to not needing the Job.

Dean, although he loved Lisa/Ben, he yearned for the job. he missed the thrill of the hunt. he jumped straight back into it straight away. Thats the difference between the two characters and why I think Deans being hypocritical in a sense.

All this 'promise you wont look for me' stuff, they always do it and it always hurts them more, they start moving on and then BAM theyre back in their life, which is why they will never move on. Sam finally stuck to the word though and Deans calling him on it after countless times of not doing as they promised.

Thats why i find it hypocritical really. Dean stopped looking after a few month. Sam didnt bother looking. I cant blame him. i usually side with Dean as i like him more than Sam. But I wish Dean didnt come back for Sam. I wish he left Sam alone. its part of Deans problem, he needs the job but he needs Sam.

And its always wrong place wrong time for them thats the thing. Its about time they just think of themselves, the world ends? it ends. They fought and stopped it for how long now? They keep fighting but for what? What is the point of it all?

I know this season is about closing hells doors for good but what afterwards? This is the thing with the show, My fave season is series 1, simply because I loved the monster of the week thing, i still love the programe, but I loved the lore and urban legends it felt like there could be an end.
 
Thing with Sam is, he can just run away from things. He just upped and left Dean and John. Although Soulless, he came back almost instantly he didnt bother informing or seeking Dean. Sam promised to leave him alone so he did.

I mean, yeah he left Kevin to crowley, but thats life in the end. Its Always got to be sam and dean doing everything. Theres coming a point where, theyre just going to continue having no life to save others who have lives, theyre going to die young, bloody over and over. As a viewer, i get abit tired of 'yep theyre dead but they are going to come back'. Theres no shock factor there. I think they need to kill one of them off for good and I think that its got to be Dean. Its just annoying knowing neither of them will die and theyll always come back.

Same with this season. Sam didnt look, because he didnt want to really. All they do is die/go somewhere, search for each other, get depressed, hit the bottle, go off the scale and then the other comes back. But I think sam though that one day its all gotta stop and just accept someone is gone. I think Sams just tired and after being the special kid with Azazel, dying at least 3 times, having lucifer ride him to hell, having the wall crumble, having lucifer ride him on earth, losing his soul.

Deans not had any of that. He's had Michael try to ride him, but nothing came of it. Sam said yes, Dean didnt. Dean wasn't the special demon blood kid, he never lost his soul, he never had lucifer riding his mind. Yeah he went to hell and went dark side in there but then he embraces his tortue skills from Alistair. He chose to erase Ben and Lisa's minds of their memories of him which killed him inside. But I think thats the parallels; I dont believe sam would do what Dean does for the job. I reckon Sam wouldve stayed with Lisa and Ben due to not needing the Job.

Dean, although he loved Lisa/Ben, he yearned for the job. he missed the thrill of the hunt. he jumped straight back into it straight away. Thats the difference between the two characters and why I think Deans being hypocritical in a sense.

All this 'promise you wont look for me' stuff, they always do it and it always hurts them more, they start moving on and then BAM theyre back in their life, which is why they will never move on. Sam finally stuck to the word though and Deans calling him on it after countless times of not doing as they promised.

Thats why i find it hypocritical really. Dean stopped looking after a few month. Sam didnt bother looking. I cant blame him. i usually side with Dean as i like him more than Sam. But I wish Dean didnt come back for Sam. I wish he left Sam alone. its part of Deans problem, he needs the job but he needs Sam.

And its always wrong place wrong time for them thats the thing. Its about time they just think of themselves, the world ends? it ends. They fought and stopped it for how long now? They keep fighting but for what? What is the point of it all?

I know this season is about closing hells doors for good but what afterwards? This is the thing with the show, My fave season is series 1, simply because I loved the monster of the week thing, i still love the programe, but I loved the lore and urban legends it felt like there could be an end.

I can appreciate what your saying and I think for the most part we're on the same page, with just some differences of opinion.

On a side note though and speaking of S1, I was watching 'Shadow' this morning and it's amazing seeing how far the journey has come. It feels like just yesterday we were introduced Azazel, Meg and crew.
 
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