Jye, did you hate it?
Hate, no…Jye, did you hate it?
Thanks will definitely check out! Well, no, I've gotten the impression that fencing is either tightly controlled, or, a real fight with medieval weapons is brutal, and slow. For sure you don't twirl your sword around. Imagine an opponent is only too happy to see sword twirling, leaving an opening.https://www.youtube.com/user/scholagladiatoria/videos
Matt Easton is my go to You Tube channel for HEMA and historical information in a video form. There's a lot of great historical information here about swords, armor, etc. He's also done videos and critiques on several fantasy shows and movies about the weapons and armor they use. What I like most about is he's a practicing HEMAist, and he's a antiques dealer specializing in weapons, so the guy knows his stuff. He recently gave a fight breakdown on Fellowship of the Rings on IGN channel. I haven't watched the whole thing yet, but the bits I did he was pretty even handed called out some of the silly stuff, and acknowledged the bits they did get right. But again its fantasy. As a fencer who trains in and spars with several weapons including Longsword, trust me real fights are no where near as entertaining to watch as we see in fantasy movies, and TV.
Thanks will definitely check out! Well, no, I've gotten the impression that fencing is either tightly controlled, or, a real fight with medieval weapons is brutal, and slow. For sure you don't twirl your sword around. Imagine an opponent is only too happy to see sword twirling, leaving an opening.
Also anyone calling this series cheap looking because they are scrutinizing a still photo of a costume rather than waiting to see the costume and scene in question isn't being genuine.
Some design choices are for technical/logistical reasons. Some are to create more comfort for the actor ( IIRC, Val Kilmer kept passing out in his Batman suit) Some are to enable better stunts/wire work, etc, etc. And yes, some are budgetary.
In just about every Sci Fi movie, at some point, the actors take their helmets off on an alien planet. Even though that makes no sense ( Like Prometheus) But audiences connect better with the characters if they can see their faces. So the helmets usually come off. It's just how it usually works.
There have been interesting behind the scenes videos from both Ron Moore's BSG and The Expanse, where set designers talk about the challenges of doing lighting inside a helmet. Then getting audio. Then having the face exposed enough to see who is who. Then prevent fogging. Then preventing glare against the camera. Then the actor's basic comfort. All while controlling the weight of it, since it might sitting on an actors head for a long time.
I know some people get picky about weapons. Some weapons are basically retrofits of Airsoft guns or Nerf guns, but again, time and expense and the need to replicate things. One interesting thing about Curb Your Enthusiam was the main character lost a jacket meant for a Martin Scorsese film as the plot of an episode. So he had to try to find a replacement, since it was in the film. But the film actually had several in reserve and he didn't know it. What can you do, but then replicate 4-5-10 times over? And what does that cost?
It has to be functional before it can look good.
I get why people care about how the armor looks. I also get why some people don't. Both are OK to me. Immersion is a different animal for each person. I don't like to be broken out of immersion. I understand why others don't. Different things trigger that for different people.
I don't like contemporary songs in most modern movies, especially spectacle movies. Imagine if you were watching Interstellar and then suddenly Adele starting singing. To me, that breaks immersion. For others, it won't. Sofia Coppola did a horrible remake of Marie Antoinette, but in one scene, she had a pair of Converse mixed in with the period shoes. She explained that she wanted to show that Kirsten Dunst was still just a young girl and for audiences to see her like that. However something like that breaks immersion. Especially in a period film covering people who actually lived and are historically noted.
I get it. At the same time I don't. And that's OK.
I am a literature scholar, and a significant part of my work and written works are on Tolkien and let me tell you... this is Tolkien.
Ultimately, Tolkien himself said he wanted to write a fully realized world in which other people might tell their stories and that is what we are seeing here.
I feel like this is Tolkien's world - the scope of the prologue in showing the Trees, snippets of the war with Morgoth and the Sinking of Beleriand (the sea LITERALLY red with blood is a fantastic image) were great. I think they did good in showing just enough without it feeling like THAT is the story we should be watching, they also did well to still convey the main points needed for this story using the limited references they can legally make without the rights to the Silmarillion (like showing the shadow of Morgoth but not Ungoliant in the destruction of the Trees, but at the same time not showing the COMPLETE destruction of the Trees in order to still allow for the possibility for book readers that Ungoliant had a part).
The scene when the Ship was returning to Valinor is, for me, perhaps the most "Tolkienian" scene ever put on screen, the forgotten song of home resonating to the returning Elves once more (but not to Galadriel whose heart was too heavy to fully feel the embrace of such a holy place), the parting of the skies and seas, the encompassing light, the birds.... it was beautiful.
Khazad-Dum was just stunning, rewatched the scene a few times, it was incredible to see it as a living city and this adaptation is already doing a great job of adding some much needed depth to the cinematic depictions of Tolkien's dwarves'.
I am a literature scholar, and a significant part of my work and written works are on Tolkien and let me tell you... this is Tolkien. Is it Tolkien with some liberties and creative input by others? Absolutely - but so was the LOTR movies. Indeed some of the clunkier moments like Galadriel's anime finishing move were done first and more outlandishly by Legolas in the movies - if we can forgive that we should forgive this.
Ultimately, Tolkien himself said he wanted to write a fully realized world in which other people might tell their stories and that is what we are seeing here.
So no, this isn't some generic fantasy or S&S flick, it isn't even low fantasy like GOT or HOTD, this is HIGH fantasy well realized and I can't wait to see more.
Its a pet peeve of mine, just say you don't like something, that something about it doesn't click with you, that this specific thing here broke my immerison etc. instead of going "here is a small error and that is proof this show is BAD" like your opinion must always be aligned with the objective truth or something.
Thanks! I write a lot of academic stuff and non-fictional texts, but I have always been tempted to slip into writing prose - I would love to do it one day!Ah ha! That explains your writing.
Happy to help!Now I know who to go to to explain and sharpen things for me. I am not well-versed in Tolkien, but I enjoy a fully immersive world. I'm not sure what character belongs where in which time, which is why I was asking earlier if this was a mish-mash of many books or simply a re-envisioning of the world. Your 2nd sentence explains it quite simply.
Your right that this is often the case, I don't entirely agree though as I feel when people approach things with an open mind I think they are open to seeing things from other peoples' POVs and can find themselves completely changing their opinion on something. I have had movies I liked elevated when discussing someone's insights about it, and likewise I have had films I love impacted when people give their opinions on it and it informs my own (I'll never forgive my brother for pointing out to me that the story of Avatar is pretty similar to "Pocahontas in Space").Everyone is different.
You can't convince someone if their mind is made up. They can't convince you if your mind is made up.
Oh, I have no intention to!You can't get some people to see things as you see them. And that's still OK. And we were not OK, we still couldn't change it.
Thanks! I write a lot of academic stuff and non-fictional texts, but I have always been tempted to slip into writing prose - I would love to do it one day!
Happy to help!
They are making changes to the events and timeline, no doubt, some of that will be a lack of rights to appropriate characters and events and some of it will just be the burdens of adaptation - some of Tolkien's stuff can get weird without what might be considered an unreasonably long explanation of the lore and history that explains that event - such as the time Sauron and a whole island of werewolves get their asses kicked by a single talking dog from heaven some time after Sauron has a deadly magical rap battle with Galadriel's brother - likewise some of the timespans are enormous, thousands of years can pass between connecting events, wars can last for centuries and key battles can last for years at a time (the War of Wrath for example was essentially a single battle that lasted for 40 continuous years) so a certain compression of time is needed for tv audiences.
We will know how much time has been compressed when we get to Numenor and see who is the ruler - if it is Tar-Miriel/Ar-Pharazon then they have compressed a timeline of events covering the reigns of more than at least 14 Numenorean kings - a period of over 1600 years - into a single Numenorean lifetime, if the ruler is one of their predecessors then this show can be expected to cover a period of centuries at least, if the ruler of Numenor is its first king - Elrond's twin Elros - then we can expect the show to cover millenia.
Even with that one reference to Huan (the great hound), it was a legend that evolved with Tolkien's writing.
https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Huan
He was literally attempting to create a world, and describe it from the various viewpoints of the peoples that inhabited it.
At its simplest different races give different names to the same places or people.
The entirety of his works are legends inspired by legends. They aren't always literal, and they're not always told the same way. This makes it easier to accept some variance in other media versions of his books. As long as the spirit is true, then it works.
I couldn't agree more strongly, brilliantly put.
Hell the very idea of there being a "canon" is an anachronism to Tolkien's Legendarium imported into the discussion from other works and fandoms (the Star Wars fandom is often the one people point fingers to for introducing the notion of "canon" to discussions about Tolkien's work), as you say his stories are essentially stories made up OF stories telling other stories... Like a historian trying to piece together the writings, histories and mythologies of lands and people who never existed in the first place.
Absolutely true, the modern style of storytelling is very orderly and reflects the modern love of order - especially in narrative action.In that Tolkien was like a chronicler, discovering new texts and inserting them into the great body of work. As a young reader it was sometimes off putting to be taken out of the story by a long poem, until I understood it was how he was creating his world. There isn't a single narrator, but many who tell their own stories through songs and poems passed down through the generations.
Going back as far as Homer, the epic poems he told also mixed legend with history to honour the audience who would hear them. Much later Spenser would carry on the tradition with The Faerie Queene, merging Elizabeth I into legend.
It's not always an easy concept to accept, because we tend to prefer everything in its rightful place and rightful order, and not to be contradicted within itself.
Having slept on it, I still feel the same however I'm still eager to jump back into the story and see where it goes. I spent the first 2 seasons of Game of Thrones being in a confused state. So much World building going on with new characters popping up every episode too.Watched episode 2. Some good, some OK, some not so good. Without giving the series a chance to evolve I don't want to say too much.
Was always going to face an uphill battle when being compared to the greatest trilogy ever made.
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