The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power | Amazon Prime Video - September 2, 2022

[MeatHookGekko]

They did have a hell of a lot of horses for three ships.

Jeff Bezos and I play Jenga once a week. This became a regular thing after my last parole.

According to him, he had extra money and paid Marie Kondo to help pack the three ships. So that explains it. Room for at least 500 horses that way.

To reward me for this prompt answer, you should immediately Fed Ex me the Hot Toys set you have that has the highest current secondary market value. I feel that's more than fair. But you should ship it so I get it before the end of next week, I'm leaving for male modeling school and won't be able to sign for it after that.

OK, I'm glad I settled all that.

Marie says hi. She'd type it herself but she's still in my bathroom flossing.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Marie says hi. She'd type it herself but she's still in my bathroom flossing.

Your boat is so big.

 

[The Buffinator]

They did have a hell of a lot of horses for three ships.

Those ships hold almost as many horses as Legolas’s quiver holds arrows lol.

 

[jye4ever]

Those ships hold almost as many horses as Legolas’s quiver holds arrows lol.

S

Spoiler

AVAG

E

 

[lordnastrond]

Okay - finally caught up after a hectic few weeks.
I have thoughts...

This show is pretty wildly bipolar. Looks super expensive and looks super cheap. Has really great acting and has some really terrible acting. Has some very Tolkienesque moments and at other times feels wildly generic. Has moments of "so cool to finally see that" to moments of "that is so completely dumb".

In short this is my take on it also - some great stuff, some stuff the Tolkien nerd in me loves, others its annoyed by and then there is stuff that plain frustrates me on a story-telling level.

So to start with the stuff I like:
- Adar - very well acted, very interesting character and concept with a fascinating motivation and alternate philosophy - the idea of one of the original Elves who were twisted into the beginning of the Orcs being a prominent character is brilliant, such a cool idea for a story. Delving into the depth of the orcs, their culture, the moral and philosophical questions of their existence (which Tolkien himself wrestled with) and giving them a face and voice that can sympathetically convey their perspective while in no way sanitizing or retconning the nature of the orcs for the audience is one of the most intriguing storylines I can think of. The idea that the orcs are tired of being slaves to the Dark Lords and are striving for their own future is compelling, yet matches to a degree some of Tolkien's writings about how many of the orcs secretly despise Sauron and Morgoth and even some orc chieftains scorned Sauron's summons after Morgoth's fall (to no success).

- Sauron - odd as it might seem to list him as one of the things I enjoy here given he has yet to appear (or does he?), but the conversations and atmosphere they have built around him so far is hitting the right notes for me. The hints of worship from those men who have convinced themselves he is their saviour, the dread of him building, the feeling that he is behind every plot and event. Most of all I LOVED the conversation between Galadriel and Adar where he describes Sauron's desire to "heal" Middle-Earth and bring "order" to the point he delved into many twisted and dark arts to achieve the means to do so - sacrificing his own to strive for this end.

- The Dwarves, Prince Durin and his relationship with Elrond, his wife, his father and the whole Dwarven culture. Its brilliantly fleshed out, well-acted in a way that feels natural and uplifting, they all feel real (maybe a touch idealized but that isn't always bad) and these are characters I enjoy watching and root for. Their story isn't too exicting so far, but non-the-less its enjoyable because the characters and setting are enjoyable.

- Celebrimbor's shiftiness - perfectly played - he is manipulating Elrond like a fiddle using these stories about his father and has even managed to make himself seem like the more reasonable party in comparison to Gil-Galad when their manipulations started to make themselves evident. He manages all this despite seeming so sincere and likeable, almost like he has convinced even himself of his good intentions.

- There are other things I like - Numenor's design - its beautiful and I love the connection and importance of the Sea in the culture - which is fitting for the "Sea-Kings". Elendil - the casting of him is spot-on and I love the characterisation so far. Arondir is a good character and the struggle of the Southlands is a least somewhat enjoyable for me - the battles in this last episode were great.

The stuff I am struggling with:
- The time compression - this is seriously worrying to me as it completely untethers the series from the already relatively underdeveloped events and chronology of the Second Age. The problems with this is that it:

1. Forces character arcs to happen at a seriously accelerated pace, we now no longer have the long seduction of Celebrimbor and the erosion of Sauron/Annatar's positive motives over centuries but instead this must now happen in a few years at most.
2. This undermines the narrative of the long decline of the Numenoreans from a civilisation willing to aid the elves against Sauron into one that joins Sauron against them and all they stand for. Instead of this decay taking place over centuries, including decades of Sauron as prisoner-come-prize-come-advisor-come-high-priest - all of this "transformation" must now happen in just a few decades - and indeed must take place thousands of years earlier than it should do. As a result we don't see this decline, because with the War of Elves and Sauron is taking place thousands of years later than it should or not taking place at all, we never see the Numenoreans as the righteous and Faithful people they were, there is no sense of tragedy in their decline, we are told these things but never see them - a case of show don't tell that ANY story-teller ought to be ashamed of. This makes the Numenorean corruption seem premature and shallow, instead of the close proximity with the Elves, originating from a place of friendship, causing resentment of their immortality and other gifts leading to eventual rift in their alliance - now the reasons are either "we don't like elves just because!" or the even more insane dynamic of thinking a single elf who washed ashore will somehow bring down their whole society because she will take their jobs etc etc despite all she asked for in the first place was the right to leave - WHICH THEY DENIED!?!? It makes no flipping sense, because they removed all context for the Numenorean decline
3. This all erodes the concept of The Long Defeat, the idea that it is Sauron's constant undermining of the efforts of the Free Peoples that paves the path to his inevitable victory despite their noble struggle and infrequent victories against him.
4. Instead of Sauron being a long enduring villain in Middle Earth he now, apparently, establishes himself as the new Dark Lord after Morgoth, fights his wars against the Free Peoples, nearly conquers Middle-Earth, is defeated, forges the Rings and is beaten back all the way to the Last Alliance ALL WITHIN A SINGLE NUMENOREAN LIFETIME. Its absurd!

- Galadriel, I am one of the biggest advocates for the dimesions of her character shown in this show and its textual authority from Tolkien, she WAS prideful and wrathful and desired a rule of her own... with all that said, as obvious as it is that this will be her character arc, at the moment she is a very difficult character to like (I don't) or root for. Her single-minded pursuit of vengeance (which she keeps saying isn't vengeance despite it clearly being that) should be an interesting ASPECT of her character, but here its her ENTIRE character. Yes, she ought to be angry and driven and prideful - but she also ought to be wise, kind and demonstrating some of those aspect we later see in her - at the moment the connections between the two halfs of her character seem non-existent. Also, while I loathe the arguments by certain corners of the internet who seem offended by the notion of Galadriel wielding a sword, her she does nothing BUT wield a sword, she has nearly no diplomatic ability, no ability to govern, no patience and no magical talent - all of which are her true primary skills. Yes, she ought to be a warrior, but she is also MANY OTHER things... this seems to diminish her from one of the two greatest of the Noldor into a mere war general. On that note, as much as I didn't mind the "Commander of the Northern Armies" thing at first, the show is placing SO MUCH emphasis on it and pretending its such a big and important thing that I am beginning to feel a annoyed by it. Galadriel's role in the Wars against Morgoth was understated or merely implied, but to listen to this show one would think she slew him and threw him through the Doors of Night by herself. Its beginning to grate on me.

- Nitpicks:

1. the Harfoots are fat too cut-throat for a supposedly community centric tribe, the idea of people "falling behind" is one thing and has a certain real-life pragmatism to it, but the idea of TAKING THEIR WHEELS to ensure some people are left behind and die is just sociopathic. Either lean in on this or keep them as simple but good folk who do their best (Which is my preference) this attempt to be both is giving confusing signals.
2. Elendil being treated as merely a high-ranking soldier is a little grating to me, he is a prominent lord of Numenor and a relative to the Queen, treat him as such - he can still have a day job, just dont treat him like hes the janitor.
3. Unless they do something REALLY interesting with it the idea of the Southlands having a "one true king" makes absolutely zero sense if they are simply the former servants and slaves of Morgoth who have been under Elven occupation since his defeat - they would have answered to Sauron, Morgoth, Uruks, Balrogs and other myriad beings higher in the evil hierarchy - not some sort of chosen, recognized and "promised" king. The placement of this trope here seem unusual and I frankly would ONLY be able to stand it if it turns out to be a long-con by Sauron to present himself as a savior of these people or if Halbrand is some precursor to a Nazgul.
4. Gil-Galad is meant to be a wise and likeable character - so far he just seems like a dick.
5. Seriously where the hell is Celeborn?

the godawful stuff that made no damn sense and has no place in a decent story

- THE MAGIC SWORD-KEY-DAM-THING - seriously WHAT was that? So Sauron built an elven tower to guard a dam, which could be opened only by magic blood drinking smoky sword key, to release the water, that needed to follow recently built tunnels and channels, to flow into an open cavern into the heart of Orodruin, in order to detonate the volcano and create Mordor.... this makes no ******* sense!! Utter stupidity.

We don't need some Indiana Jones/Scooby Doo/Wile-E-Coyote esque **** to activate the Mountain - we could just have Sauron turning up and causing the mountain to erupt with.... YOU KNOW - MAGIC!?! It would have been a great way to establish Sauron's completely disproportionate power and divine status in comparison to the other characters, made him look like the badass he is, been truer to the text and would have been an awesome character moment establishing that **** just got real.

I cannot believe they chose this instead - it boggles the mind.



So - yeah thats my take so far.

 

[jye4ever]

Okay - finally caught up after a hectic few weeks.
I have thoughts...

In short this is my take on it also - some great stuff, some stuff the Tolkien nerd in me loves, others its annoyed by and then there is stuff that plain frustrates me on a story-telling level.

So to start with the stuff I like:
- Adar - very well acted, very interesting character and concept with a fascinating motivation and alternate philosophy - the idea of one of the original Elves who were twisted into the beginning of the Orcs being a prominent character is brilliant, such a cool idea for a story. Delving into the depth of the orcs, their culture, the moral and philosophical questions of their existence (which Tolkien himself wrestled with) and giving them a face and voice that can sympathetically convey their perspective while in no way sanitizing or retconning the nature of the orcs for the audience is one of the most intriguing storylines I can think of. The idea that the orcs are tired of being slaves to the Dark Lords and are striving for their own future is compelling, yet matches to a degree some of Tolkien's writings about how many of the orcs secretly despise Sauron and Morgoth and even some orc chieftains scorned Sauron's summons after Morgoth's fall (to no success).

- Sauron - odd as it might seem to list him as one of the things I enjoy here given he has yet to appear (or does he?), but the conversations and atmosphere they have built around him so far is hitting the right notes for me. The hints of worship from those men who have convinced themselves he is their saviour, the dread of him building, the feeling that he is behind every plot and event. Most of all I LOVED the conversation between Galadriel and Adar where he describes Sauron's desire to "heal" Middle-Earth and bring "order" to the point he delved into many twisted and dark arts to achieve the means to do so - sacrificing his own to strive for this end.

- The Dwarves, Prince Durin and his relationship with Elrond, his wife, his father and the whole Dwarven culture. Its brilliantly fleshed out, well-acted in a way that feels natural and uplifting, they all feel real (maybe a touch idealized but that isn't always bad) and these are characters I enjoy watching and root for. Their story isn't too exicting so far, but non-the-less its enjoyable because the characters and setting are enjoyable.

- Celebrimbor's shiftiness - perfectly played - he is manipulating Elrond like a fiddle using these stories about his father and has even managed to make himself seem like the more reasonable party in comparison to Gil-Galad when their manipulations started to make themselves evident. He manages all this despite seeming so sincere and likeable, almost like he has convinced even himself of his good intentions.

- There are other things I like - Numenor's design - its beautiful and I love the connection and importance of the Sea in the culture - which is fitting for the "Sea-Kings". Elendil - the casting of him is spot-on and I love the characterisation so far. Arondir is a good character and the struggle of the Southlands is a least somewhat enjoyable for me - the battles in this last episode were great.

The stuff I am struggling with:
- The time compression - this is seriously worrying to me as it completely untethers the series from the already relatively underdeveloped events and chronology of the Second Age. The problems with this is that it:

1. Forces character arcs to happen at a seriously accelerated pace, we now no longer have the long seduction of Celebrimbor and the erosion of Sauron/Annatar's positive motives over centuries but instead this must now happen in a few years at most.
2. This undermines the narrative of the long decline of the Numenoreans from a civilisation willing to aid the elves against Sauron into one that joins Sauron against them and all they stand for. Instead of this decay taking place over centuries, including decades of Sauron as prisoner-come-prize-come-advisor-come-high-priest - all of this "transformation" must now happen in just a few decades - and indeed must take place thousands of years earlier than it should do. As a result we don't see this decline, because with the War of Elves and Sauron is taking place thousands of years later than it should or not taking place at all, we never see the Numenoreans as the righteous and Faithful people they were, there is no sense of tragedy in their decline, we are told these things but never see them - a case of show don't tell that ANY story-teller ought to be ashamed of. This makes the Numenorean corruption seem premature and shallow, instead of the close proximity with the Elves, originating from a place of friendship, causing resentment of their immortality and other gifts leading to eventual rift in their alliance - now the reasons are either "we don't like elves just because!" or the even more insane dynamic of thinking a single elf who washed ashore will somehow bring down their whole society because she will take their jobs etc etc despite all she asked for in the first place was the right to leave - WHICH THEY DENIED!?!? It makes no flipping sense, because they removed all context for the Numenorean decline
3. This all erodes the concept of The Long Defeat, the idea that it is Sauron's constant undermining of the efforts of the Free Peoples that paves the path to his inevitable victory despite their noble struggle and infrequent victories against him.
4. Instead of Sauron being a long enduring villain in Middle Earth he now, apparently, establishes himself as the new Dark Lord after Morgoth, fights his wars against the Free Peoples, nearly conquers Middle-Earth, is defeated, forges the Rings and is beaten back all the way to the Last Alliance ALL WITHIN A SINGLE NUMENOREAN LIFETIME. Its absurd!

- Galadriel, I am one of the biggest advocates for the dimesions of her character shown in this show and its textual authority from Tolkien, she WAS prideful and wrathful and desired a rule of her own... with all that said, as obvious as it is that this will be her character arc, at the moment she is a very difficult character to like (I don't) or root for. Her single-minded pursuit of vengeance (which she keeps saying isn't vengeance despite it clearly being that) should be an interesting ASPECT of her character, but here its her ENTIRE character. Yes, she ought to be angry and driven and prideful - but she also ought to be wise, kind and demonstrating some of those aspect we later see in her - at the moment the connections between the two halfs of her character seem non-existent. Also, while I loathe the arguments by certain corners of the internet who seem offended by the notion of Galadriel wielding a sword, her she does nothing BUT wield a sword, she has nearly no diplomatic ability, no ability to govern, no patience and no magical talent - all of which are her true primary skills. Yes, she ought to be a warrior, but she is also MANY OTHER things... this seems to diminish her from one of the two greatest of the Noldor into a mere war general. On that note, as much as I didn't mind the "Commander of the Northern Armies" thing at first, the show is placing SO MUCH emphasis on it and pretending its such a big and important thing that I am beginning to feel a annoyed by it. Galadriel's role in the Wars against Morgoth was understated or merely implied, but to listen to this show one would think she slew him and threw him through the Doors of Night by herself. Its beginning to grate on me.

- Nitpicks:

1. the Harfoots are fat too cut-throat for a supposedly community centric tribe, the idea of people "falling behind" is one thing and has a certain real-life pragmatism to it, but the idea of TAKING THEIR WHEELS to ensure some people are left behind and die is just sociopathic. Either lean in on this or keep them as simple but good folk who do their best (Which is my preference) this attempt to be both is giving confusing signals.
2. Elendil being treated as merely a high-ranking soldier is a little grating to me, he is a prominent lord of Numenor and a relative to the Queen, treat him as such - he can still have a day job, just dont treat him like hes the janitor.
3. Unless they do something REALLY interesting with it the idea of the Southlands having a "one true king" makes absolutely zero sense if they are simply the former servants and slaves of Morgoth who have been under Elven occupation since his defeat - they would have answered to Sauron, Morgoth, Uruks, Balrogs and other myriad beings higher in the evil hierarchy - not some sort of chosen, recognized and "promised" king. The placement of this trope here seem unusual and I frankly would ONLY be able to stand it if it turns out to be a long-con by Sauron to present himself as a savior of these people or if Halbrand is some precursor to a Nazgul.
4. Gil-Galad is meant to be a wise and likeable character - so far he just seems like a dick.
5. Seriously where the hell is Celeborn?

the godawful stuff that made no damn sense and has no place in a decent story

- THE MAGIC SWORD-KEY-DAM-THING - seriously WHAT was that? So Sauron built an elven tower to guard a dam, which could be opened only by magic blood drinking smoky sword key, to release the water, that needed to follow recently built tunnels and channels, to flow into an open cavern into the heart of Orodruin, in order to detonate the volcano and create Mordor.... this makes no ******* sense!! Utter stupidity.

We don't need some Indiana Jones/Scooby Doo/Wile-E-Coyote esque **** to activate the Mountain - we could just have Sauron turning up and causing the mountain to erupt with.... YOU KNOW - MAGIC!?! It would have been a great way to establish Sauron's completely disproportionate power and divine status in comparison to the other characters, made him look like the badass he is, been truer to the text and would have been an awesome character moment establishing that **** just got real.

I cannot believe they chose this instead - it boggles the mind.



So - yeah thats my take so far.

I agree with everything but the fall of numenor and rise of sauron great post by the way.

People are already complaining about the slow pace and the narrative being a slave to the forced 5 seasons to keep people subscribed to amazon prime yet you want numenor’s fall to last 10 seasons!

Your use of terms like “over centuries” and “long defeat” will give people panic attacks lol

If this already slow paced decline of numenor and rise of sauron they’re telling is the accelerated version i’m afraid to see the version from the book being told unaltered yikes!

 

[lordnastrond]

I agree with everything but the fall of numenor and rise of sauron great post by the way.

People are already complaining about the slow pace and the narrative being a slave to the forced 5 seasons to keep people subscribed to amazon prime yet you want numenor’s fall to last 10 seasons!

Your use of terms like “over centuries” and “long defeat” will give people panic attacks lol

If this already slow paced decline of numenor and rise of sauron they’re telling is the accelerated version i’m afraid to see the version from the book being told unaltered yikes!

I understand that - but the irony is if they stuck to the timeline there is plenty of action and notable events they could cut to and between these periods of long decay.

The First season ought to be the aftermath of the War of Wrath & rebuilding (first 2 episodes established these two aspects well-enough) - then the appearance of Annatar, the seduction of Celebrimbor and the forging of the Rings, then the season should end with Sauron forging The One and thus revealing himself to the Elves.
In my opinion it ought to focus almost entirely on the events in Eregion and the Southlands (which is a great original story - minus the magic dam sword key thing) and they both have a natural joining arc and conclusion - with the revelation that they both have been used by Sauron to further his own designs, the Elves and Celebrimbor in helping him forge the Rings and Adar and the Orcs making Mordor ready for his return. The Elves, Humans of the Southlands and Adar/the Uruks even end on a similar theme - with the crushing of their hope for a new world order without the shadow of a Dark Lord over them, all of them strive to build a new future and destiny and these efforts are subverted by Sauron for his own ends.

The entire second season could then be the War of Elves and Sauron - we see the Elves getting pushed closer and closer to ruin, the Dwarves shutting their gates on their friends, Elrond founding Rivendell, the appeal of the Elves to and the arrival of the host of the Numenoreans (at this point in their history still "faithful" and friends to the Elves) and their defeating Sauron and forcing his forces back into Mordor - this season in contrast to the last one seems to end on a high note. This season should be the one where we are really introduced to Numenor, still at its moral peak, ideally through the eyes of Elrond who would have the strongest emotional connection to the island kingdom as it was founded by his own Twin brother Elros, he would also make the most sense in carrying Gil-Galad's plea given that he is Gil-Galad's herald. At the end of the season we see the Numenorean's decide to end their period of splendid isolation and they not only establish stronger ties with the Elves, but also begin closer ties with the other men of Middle-Earth - establishing trade and the like.

The next season should then take place over a long time, but show this quickly - hell you could even get away with a long montage showing Elrond and elven visitors over time arriving at Numenor - the Elves are unchanging but in each visit the design of Numenor changes slightly or even drastically, the ruler greeting them changes, grows old, is replaced by a new ruler, over and over, the crowd - at first massive and cheering, over time grows smaller and smaller... soon enough no ruler or crowd greets them at the docks... then over even more time people start turning up again, but not to welcome them, but to jeer and mock, to rattle and intimidate..
With a device like this its entirely possible to convey the vast stretch of time and the change of the Numenorean disposition towards the Elves visually in a quick amount of time all while contrasting the fundemental difference between the two peoples - one is mortal and changing and the other is immortal and static. We can then be "re-introduced" to Numenor in the reign of Tar-Miriel & Ar-Pharazon and see for ourselves just how far they have fallen from the heroic people who saved Middle Earth just last season. We learn either through dialogue - or ideally in scenes/stories set in Rhun, Harad, Umbar and other human settlements in Middle-Earth that the Numenoreans no longer trade and seek to spread knowledge to these other people - but instead demand tribute, taxes, indentured serfs, they exploit and colonize...if only someone offered them a path to freedom.... cue a certain Dark Lord.
Meanwhile the Elves deal with both the increasingly tense situation with Numenor, but also the aftermath of the Rings themselves - which DO prevent the fading of their people and lands, but at the cost of making them reliant on them, their end is now inevitable and the age of Men is approaching. Consequently this season ought to focus more on Human stories, with the Elves being either the B plot or a character perspective of events going on.
The theme of this season is corruption - we see the corruption of the Numenoreans, Sauron works to influence the Men of Middle-Earth towards his cause, The Elves are fading, the Dwarves (now influenced by their rings) dig too greedily, their kingdoms becoming the prey of various terrors they unleash with their avarice, they lose their bonds of friendship with other races and become insular.
We see Sauron winning many nations to his cause as their "savior" and he declares himself "The King of Men" which inflames Ar-Pharazon the Golden's pride and causes him to launch his attack on Sauron - only for Sauron's guard to "flee", allowing him to take Sauron - in his fairest form - prisoner in golden chains to Numenor as a war-prize.... exactly as Sauron intended.
A potential B plot of this season could also be Sauron giving some of the 9 Rings to the Kings of Men, beginning their transformation into the Nazgul - in order to further establish the theme of corruption.

The fourth and final season ought to then be the endgame - covering the final corruption of Numenor, Ar-Pharazon's blasphemous armada against Valinor, the Doom of Numenor and the Changing of the World by Eru, Sauron's fair form being destroyed and reducing now to the state he was in the Prologue of LOTR, the arrival of Eldendil/Isildur to Middle-Earth and the Founding of Gondor and Arnor, Sauron's last war of conquest and The Last Alliance.
I would like the show to demonstrate the extent to which Sauron's manipulations flowed as in the WOTLA there were actually many of those forces we consider "good" fighting FOR Sauron in the last days: "All living things were divided in that day, and some of every kind, even of beasts and birds, were found in either host, save the Elves only. They alone were undivided and followed Gil-galad. Of the Dwarves few fought upon either side, but the kindred of Durin of Moria fought against Sauron". Hell using this quote you could even justify having "free orcs" under Adar fighting AGAINST Sauron in the Last Alliance, as the implication is that ALL things were divided with some fighting on either side (Elves excluded - the bunch of Mary Sues! )

But thats it - this is the sequence of events I would do - its truer to the text, conveys the vast stretches of time, yet ought to still be pretty eventful and avoid being quite the drag I know a lot of people are currently finding ROP.

 

[Sassafras]

So latest episode. Wow this show is terrible. So. Much. Plot. Armor. Feels like the writers were on a bender again. It's fascinating thinking how much money was spent on this. Can't wait for the final

 

[user 67922]

So latest episode. Wow this show is terrible. So. Much. Plot. Armor. Feels like the writers were on a bender again. It's fascinating thinking how much money was spent on this. Can't wait for the final

That bad huh? Finding it really hard to get inspired to even tune into it at this point.

Week 1 = possibly the most excited I’ve been going into a new show, other than Twin Peaks: The Return.

Week 7 = not sure I can even be bothered to play it in the background while having the morning cuppa.

 

[Sassafras]

That bad huh? Finding it really hard to get inspired to even tune into it at this point.

Week 1 = possibly the most excited I’ve been going into a new show, other than Twin Peaks: The Return.

Week 7 = not sure I can even be bothered to play it in the background while having the morning cuppa.

Yeah, IMO jaw-droppingly bad writing. Bad enough that while I wasn't always thrilled with Peter Jackson's take on things, it's like....you know how the LOTR books constantly refer to the golden ages of alliances between elves and men and dwarves? You know how, even the smallest moment was something you wanted to watch in the Jackson films, like, say, Balin and Thorin talking in Bag End in the Hobbit, or Bilbo and Gandalf, or Eowyn standing as the wind tangled her hair in LOTR?

There's nothing like that here. A mish mash of cringe moments trying for sentiment, actual rip off of LOTR lines, long minutes of boredom, and some moments that are hilariously stupid and none of the writers seem to notice. Characters pop out of the woodwork because. I look back at the Jackson films as that lost golden age. (I'm rewatching Netflix' Last Kingdom as a palate cleanser - a show I suspect cost a lot less than ROP, but has great costumes, characters I care about, and is pretty engaging.)

It's a miracle Tolkien doesn't break off his chess game with Elvis in the great beyond, and leap from his resting place with a flaming sword of sneering English vengeance. The You-Tubers are gonna be beside themselves.

 

[user 67922]

Yeah, IMO jaw-droppingly bad writing. Bad enough that while I wasn't always thrilled with Peter Jackson's take on things, it's like....you know how the LOTR books constantly refer to the golden ages of alliances between elves and men and dwarves? You know how, even the smallest moment was something you wanted to watch in the Jackson films, like, say, Balin and Thorin talking in Bag End in the Hobbit, or Bilbo and Gandalf, or Eowyn standing as the wind tangled her hair in LOTR?

There's nothing like that here. A mish mash of cringe moments trying for sentiment, actual rip off of LOTR lines, long minutes of boredom, and some moments that are hilariously stupid and none of the writers seem to notice. Characters pop out of the woodwork because. I look back at the Jackson films as that lost golden age. (I'm rewatching Netflix' Last Kingdom as a palate cleanser - a show I suspect cost a lot less than ROP, but has great costumes, characters I care about, and is pretty engaging.)

It's a miracle Tolkien doesn't break off his chess game with Elvis in the great beyond, and leap from his resting place with a flaming sword of sneering English vengeance. The You-Tubers are gonna be beside themselves.

Good post. Tbh though I just watched the episode and definitely enjoyed it the most of the ones we've had so far. I actually started to care about some of the characters for the first time. That said there were a couple of things that immediately struck me as dumb or bad writing. I suppose I should say SPOILERS. That really cringey part at the end where Southlands comes up on screen and it swipes out and is replaced by Mordor. That was so cringey that I literally had goosebumps come up on my arms and I laughed. Then they pulled the same stupid false death trick six, let me repeat that SIX, times in the same episode.

 

[chrisstbh]

Damn the best actor in this show is literally a horse...

 

[lordnastrond]

Jesus is it really that bad....?

 

[chrisstbh]

Jesus is it really that bad....?

No it's just a really good horse actor.

 

[Sassafras]

Jesus is it really that bad....?

Yeah, it really is. 12 year old fan fiction cringe level writing. Even the one character I find interesting didn't escape fate. The ending minutes are especially hysterical.

There WERE a couple of horses I felt for. And pity for the actors trying to do their best with this dribble. I've seen cringe before too, like Tauriel trying to heal Kili and the Legolas bat thing in the Hobbit, and there's the Faramir thing in LOTR, but this is just - lame amateur. Really makes me want to rewatch Arnold's Conan and the Prince of Persia again. Kevin Costner's on and off English accent Robin Hood.

At one point - there's a comment Galadriel makes about her past - it's so bad, I stared bleakly at my Orcrist replica hanging on the wall and wondered, how it had come to this.

 

[ZE_501]

*sigh* ... not sure I can bring myself to watch this latest episode.

 

[jye4ever]

The argument between the King and Durin was great stuff as was the Elrond with Durin scenes but this show definitely slips into CW levels of cringe!

Halbrand got a spoiled wound that has made him bed riddled then second he’s walking and riding.

Isildur death plot!

That Southlands / Mordor transition literally attached to the dialogue of what to name the land has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever seen lol

That is the worst hand holding audience is dumb I have ever seen talk about not giving your audience any credit.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I enjoyed it but it is feeling more like a live action cartoon with each episode. And I hate cartoons.

Everyone surviving the blast was ridiculous.

 

[Raymond F.]

This show… obi wan… Andor… is it even possible to have a fantasy series there not boring as **** even with all the billions of dollars put into them?

To me these are just money grabs, they should be movies not series. I don’t mind a slow burn show. Better Caul Saul… one of the best slow burn shows of all time despite being a slow burn every episode was character driven and compelling. These read like 10 lines of a movie script painfully drawn out to try and make an episode.

It’s all filler,

Not a fan of these dramatic series. These properties need to get back to films, even made for streaming films are ok

 

[Kebron]

Jesus is it really that bad....?

No not at all.