The WWE Thread

[karamazov80]

Yeah, WCW succeeded the way it did, largely, because of one really good idea (NWO), and in spite of itself, as the cruiserweights Hogan, Nash, Bischoff and others thought of as filler for the company's real draws really made them distinctive from what the WWF was doing. McMahon is far from perfect, of course, but he had a heck of a lot more sense regarding the industry than Bischoff and his cronies ever did. This is obvious in hindsight though.

McMahon's disdain for anything he didn't create (Rhodes, Flair in the early '90s, Vader, WCW/ECW stuff in the early 2000s, etc.) is one of his flaws, for sure. If he didn't have his ego getting in the way, he would bring War Games back for some huge paydays.

 

[Boba Ben]

I think Dean Malenko was one of the best wrestlers WCW had to offer. I wish the WWE gave him more of a shot than they did. Also Disco Inferno gets an honorable mention.

 

[tbay]

Nice sixth-scale figure tbay! That's well done!

You mentioned something that made me cringe. Hart showing up into WCW and declaring himself WWE Champ with a "Unification Match" was exactly why the Montreal Screw-Job happened. Vince wanted to completely avoid a fiasco like that. According to Hart, he didn't want to lose the title at Survivor Series but was willing to job the next night on RAW. If Vince kept his word and let Hart job the title the next night and somehow Hart showed up on Nitro with the WWE title as you said, then Hart would've looked like the bad guy and the disrespectful individual. The WWE/Hart relationship might NEVER be the way it was if that happened. That is a HUGE sign of disrespect.

While in the wrestling entertainment business, showing disrespect to rivals like that may have helped ratings, that would've been extremely disrespectful on Bret's part to do something like that. Don't get me wrong, Vince was completely disrespectful by screwing Bret. But Vince is also a businessman, and was worried Hart might do something rash like what Madusa did (She showed up on Monday Nitro and threw the WWE Women's Champion in the trash when she had just been Alundra Blayze in the WWE). And the relationship between Hart and McMahon was stressed at that point in the mid-90's. Both men had their reasons for doing what they did and unfortunately it didn't end the best way, but what's done is done and I'm glad everyone has moved forward.

Vince McMahon has also said it correctly, WCW did NOT know how to use Bret Hart. If they did, they may have crushed WWE longer than they did. But they made him this Hogan/nWo 'tweener and really had him show up here and there. Hart did have some great moments, like his match with Chris Benoit on the Owen Hart Tribute show and him using the steel plate to trick Goldberg, but those are nothing compared to his WWE days.

I wasn't suggesting that bret show up with the title (which would be impossible as he dropped it), but taking advantage of being screwed over would have made sense (I.e., he could have fueded with hbk's friends hall and nash or Vince's "buddy" hogan, a philosophical unification). Vince went back on his agreement so I think it would be fine to say he never lost the wwf belt (not half as bad as vince billing flair as the current wcw champ)

The wwe used the screwjob as a storyline, wcw actually did talk about the screwjob they just didnt take advantage of it. Vince set himself up for wcw using that storyline and wcw certainly didn't take advantage out of respect for the business, they're was just a lot of politics that prevented a red hot angle from happening. Bret never discussed turning such an idea down, he didnt have to say he's the champ but it would have been more than fine to say he was never beat. Not sure what's wrong with that as wwe continued to mock bret for several years after Montreal.

Yeah, WCW succeeded the way it did, largely, because of one really good idea (NWO), and in spite of itself, as the cruiserweights Hogan, Nash, Bischoff and others thought of as filler for the company's real draws really made them distinctive from what the WWF was doing. McMahon is far from perfect, of course, but he had a heck of a lot more sense regarding the industry than Bischoff and his cronies ever did. This is obvious in hindsight though.

McMahon's disdain for anything he didn't create (Rhodes, Flair in the early '90s, Vader, WCW/ECW stuff in the early 2000s, etc.) is one of his flaws, for sure. If he didn't have his ego getting in the way, he would bring War Games back for some huge paydays.

Bischoff and his cronies suceeded in spite of themselves, their misteps caught up to them but the death of wcw killed competiton and really dropped the level of wrestling quality. War games would have been a perfect end to a wcw wwf feud.

I think Dean Malenko was one of the best wrestlers WCW had to offer. I wish the WWE gave him more of a shot than they did. Also Disco Inferno gets an honorable mention.

I thought disco was a great talent. Dean malenkos matches with Jericho and mysterio were off the charts.

 

[xYx]

I personally think that Daniel Bryan is best thing going for WWE right now. The man is a workhorse & can do everything!

 

[karamazov80]

Yeah, glad they gave him a shot tonight to show off in a solo match. He's definitely got "it" inside and outside of the ring at this point. I know some here were skeptical of him a year or so ago, but I reckon folks have started to come around on this guy. He had "the greatest wrestler in the world" gimmick when he was in ROH, a company full of great technical wrestlers, and it was totally a credible claim. I want to see him in some 30 minute matches with guys like Cesaro and Rollins at some PPVs.

 

[Nightwing]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF2qlhcc55U"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF2qlhcc55U[/ame]

 

[N2k-swb]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF2qlhcc55U

It's weird to see him out of character and using his own name, and not in black gear.

 

[wanderlai]

Yeah, WCW succeeded the way it did, largely, because of one really good idea (NWO), and in spite of itself, as the cruiserweights Hogan, Nash, Bischoff and others thought of as filler for the company's real draws really made them distinctive from what the WWF was doing. McMahon is far from perfect, of course, but he had a heck of a lot more sense regarding the industry than Bischoff and his cronies ever did. This is obvious in hindsight though.

McMahon's disdain for anything he didn't create (Rhodes, Flair in the early '90s, Vader, WCW/ECW stuff in the early 2000s, etc.) is one of his flaws, for sure. If he didn't have his ego getting in the way, he would bring War Games back for some huge paydays.

Vince hated anything he didn't create. The MNW/Attitude Era/ECW were the greatest 5 yrs in wrestling ever. If it wasn't for Steve Austin and his character taking off plus those crazy contracts given out by Biscuits this thing may be different today. If I remember, Vince wanted Steve to be called something besides Stone Cold...Ice Dagger I think it was...yikes.

 

[Kiva]

Emma from NXT is the future of the WWE

hott femme aussie techno cpt jack sparrow for the win

 

[FLOSI]

I'm I the only one who thinks Shemus is just a total ****ing waste of time? He bores the crap out of me.

 

[karamazov80]

Yes, but. . .he's got really huge muscles. You've gotta give him that. And for McMahon that's 80% of the equation.

Vince hated anything he didn't create. The MNW/Attitude Era/ECW were the greatest 5 yrs in wrestling ever. If it wasn't for Steve Austin and his character taking off plus those crazy contracts given out by Biscuits this thing may be different today. If I remember, Vince wanted Steve to be called something besides Stone Cold...Ice Dagger I think it was...yikes.

I always thought it was weird that the Stone Cold name stuck. As I recall, right after the Ringmaster gimmick ended, the name kind of fit. He would just silently, methodically kick guys' butts. But right when he beat Jake the Snake at KOTR, he was the opposite of "Stone Cold." He was always furiously angry! Possibly the most emotional wrestler on the roster But it sounded cool.

 

[FLOSI]

It had more to do with being "Stone Cold" hearted. He wasn't cool or calculating in any way.

I remember being shocked at what he did to Bret after WM 13. Here was the companies top face who just had the hell beat out of him. Austin's rise was so swift. We all watched this guy transform from Stunning Steve to the Ringmaster to the future of pro wrestling within a few short years. All the must see TV that the NWO brought to WCW started slowly to shift over to Stone Cold at that point. That was a great period in WWE history.

 

[CriterionCollector]

Been watching a lot of wrestling on Netflix lately. I don't watch it anymore. I stopped watching around 2003 but I've finally come to the conclusion that there are a few wrestlers that I just can't stand period. HHH is such an insider ******. He's way over-rated by the company just because he bangs the Boss' daughter. Degeneration X has always been lame IMO. I also watched the CMunk video. He seems like an entitled prick. Don't like him either. Never cared for the Undertaker as well.

 

[karamazov80]

You think Punk acts entitled? I don't think I've ever got that impression. I think he feels like he deserves respect and success because he's earned it. And frankly, I think he has considering the years and years he spent getting where he is today. I also can't stand DX though. Triple H. . .I think he's done more good for the company than bad in-ring. He was the company's biggest heel during the Rock/Austin period, which was important. And he was really good at it. But I don't know what all he might have done behind the scenes that were detrimental to the business. Quite a bit, I would imagine.

It had more to do with being "Stone Cold" hearted. He wasn't cool or calculating in any way.

I remember being shocked at what he did to Bret after WM 13. Here was the companies top face who just had the hell beat out of him. Austin's rise was so swift. We all watched this guy transform from Stunning Steve to the Ringmaster to the future of pro wrestling within a few short years. All the must see TV that the NWO brought to WCW started slowly to shift over to Stone Cold at that point. That was a great period in WWE history.

Yeah, it really was despite a lot of the "Attitude" crap that came along with it. Pretty cool how Hart and Austin both knew that sea change was coming though, and set up the match that way understanding what was going to happen. Their best PPV match was the one at Survivor Series IMO, but WM 13 was definitely their most important.

 

[CriterionCollector]

Punk, in my opinion, is a high mid-carder, yet he wants to put himself in the same category as Austin, The Rock and Triple H which is nonsense. The top tier wrestlers just aren't there because of talent. Look at Hulk Hogan who is arguably one of the worst wrestlers( I'm speaking of actual wrestling talent) ever. However, he got over because he could work a shoot very well and played to the crowd like no one's business. Now Punk is very good in shoots, but from what I've seen it's all rah-rah anger-anger. Guys like Austin, The Rock, Kurt Angle actually had shoot interviews and in ring antics that make them head and shoulders above Punk. I think that's what he doesn't get. Plus he goes off on this whole Straight Edge thing, but his version is totally some garbage you'd find in Hot Topic. He talks about Minor Threat(which he probably bought at Hot Topic), but if he was really so into Minor Threat(which broke up like 30 years ago) he'd really espouse the Straight Edge philosophy of Ian MacKaye which is no drugs, booze, smoking or sex. In addition, Ian MacKaye won't even give interviews to magazines that have advertisements for tobacco or alcohol. They don't charge any more than like 10 bucks per head for tickets, they don't play in venues that serve alcohol and all the cds on MacKaye's Dischord label are priced postage paid. Plus they don't sell band shirts or anything like that because they don't believe in advertising anything more than their music. If Punk was so Straight Edge, he'd be back wrestling on the independent circuit.
His finishing move is stupid too.

 

[karamazov80]

I like his finisher, but liked it more when KENTA was the only guy doing it. Punk is great in-ring, great on the mic, and gets the fans behind him. I think he's better than, say, Edge or Randy Orton. But of course it's gonna be hard to top all time greats like Austin, the Rock, or Kurt Angle. The Straight Edge thing is a great way to get the fans to hate him, and it's worked since his time in ROH. I don't know much of the specifics of that movement, but the judgmental "prick" part of it is very effective.

 

[CriterionCollector]

When I started the watching the documentary I was thinking he was pretty cool, but being a fan of bands like Fugazi and Operation Ivy(I'm not straight edge) his whole punk thing seemed insincere as hell, but he tried to portray himself as being authentic. He just reminds me so much of these guys that claim to be all punk yet they gt all their stuff from the mall. Plus at one point he was talking about how they wanted him to battle R-Truth and he totally dissed him acting like it was beneath him. However, R-Truth has put in his dues longer than Punk and Punk totally disrespected him.
I also never understood the appeal of Shawn Michaels. I didn't care for him when he was with The Rockers and I still don't like him.
Plus that Diva crap needs to go. They should get real female wrestlers like Mae Young and The Fabulous Mulah in their heyday. This whole let T&A be equated with female wrestling is totally disrespectful to the history of female wrestling.
BTW Kurt Angle is probably the best all-around wrestler in sports entertainment in the last 30 years.

 

[Jayrod88]

Im not a huge fan of Punk truthfully. But much like Austin, he became his character. I've heard that atevents and signings, that he is the same ******* that he is on TV. Maybe he is playing his character like heels did in the 80's an 90's, where even out o te ring, they want you to still feel like he's the bad guy.
He was however, onr of my favorite's in ROH. His matches with Samoa Joe and Raven are instant classics.
But the internet fans who praise him as a "legend" or someone who is more over that Austin or The Rock are ****ing high. Yea he has the ability to make you love and hate him. His promos are great. But, in my opinion, he hasn't done anything legendary. Sure he is the longest reigning champion in 20 years. Which was something that was givin to him too soon. Maybe over the next few years he can have a fued with someone like The Rock or Austin that can "pass te tourch". But his reign, was simply set up, for him to look strong, then drop the belt to Rocky, then to drop to Cena. Passing of the tourch to Cena. Punk can be great, but he's not the ultimate seller that Cena is. Some day yes, but as a heel, I just don't see that happening.

 

[karamazov80]

I agree about Angle. I liked HBK a lot up until he started "losing his smile" and all that junk. Female wrestling still thrives in some places, just not WWE.

I didn't know folks are comparing Punk to Austin and the Rock, but I agree they are misguided doing so. Those guys were really special on the order of no one on WWE's roster nowadays.

 

[ashkanls]

When I started the watching the documentary I was thinking he was pretty cool, but being a fan of bands like Fugazi and Operation Ivy(I'm not straight edge) his whole punk thing seemed insincere as hell, but he tried to portray himself as being authentic. He just reminds me so much of these guys that claim to be all punk yet they gt all their stuff from the mall. Plus at one point he was talking about how they wanted him to battle R-Truth and he totally dissed him acting like it was beneath him. However, R-Truth has put in his dues longer than Punk and Punk totally disrespected him.
I also never understood the appeal of Shawn Michaels. I didn't care for him when he was with The Rockers and I still don't like him.
Plus that Diva crap needs to go. They should get real female wrestlers like Mae Young and The Fabulous Mulah in their heyday. This whole let T&A be equated with female wrestling is totally disrespectful to the history of female wrestling.
BTW Kurt Angle is probably the best all-around wrestler in sports entertainment in the last 30 years.

Dang... You are aware wrestling is all acting right? Phil has a HUGE ego and is ENTERTAINING. Ever since he left for vacation RAW has sucked an Cena is the opening and closing act...... BoRiNg!