Thor: Love and Thunder **BEWARE SPOILERS**

[matticus]

There is still a giant Iron Man and Cap sized hole in this Marvel universe and I dont see anyone close to filling it.

 

[greygoose]

I am just so done with Marvel, I cant get excited for this.

Shang Chi really hit home how much I am tired of the Formula.

I still blame Endgame also. Was just talking to a friend and we were both saying how we dont like watching it and I figured out why.

Hulk yeah that's a given.

But much more than that. I don't like that it's a depressing movie. By killing Tony and basically killing Cap, I never really want to watch it anymore. The final battle is less fun because I know what's coming and Jeepers Creepers they went so dark with Tony's death. Don't even let the guy say good by just sit there like a living corpse. I mean what the hell? The overall look of the film is depressing the subject matter for the most part is depressing so even though they win in the end and bring back everyone the real cherry on top is Cap and IM being taken out (especially IM)

Maybe if Tony didn't have a kid or if Cap snapped his fingers and was the only one to go I could have managed but the way we get to remember Tony with that last shot of him looking they way he did.. WTF.

Don't get me wrong I don't mind films with Sad endings. But Endgame was the end and I personally don't need to see my hero's die. I know that seemed to be on everyone's mind for that one. "Some has to die or there are no stakes" Bah... Most comic book hero's are still kicking in the comics.


So ending that way kind of ruined my enjoyment of the rest of the films.. There is still a giant Iron Man and Cap sized hole in this Marvel universe and I dont see anyone close to filling it.

It felt like one film too many. Should have just extended Infinity War by an hour and wrapped it up.

 

[Khev]

I am just so done with Marvel, I cant get excited for this.

Shang Chi really hit home how much I am tired of the Formula.

I still blame Endgame also. Was just talking to a friend and we were both saying how we dont like watching it and I figured out why.

Hulk yeah that's a given.

But much more than that. I don't like that it's a depressing movie. By killing Tony and basically killing Cap, I never really want to watch it anymore. The final battle is less fun because I know what's coming and Jeepers Creepers they went so dark with Tony's death. Don't even let the guy say good by just sit there like a living corpse. I mean what the hell? The overall look of the film is depressing the subject matter for the most part is depressing so even though they win in the end and bring back everyone the real cherry on top is Cap and IM being taken out (especially IM)

Maybe if Tony didn't have a kid or if Cap snapped his fingers and was the only one to go I could have managed but the way we get to remember Tony with that last shot of him looking they way he did.. WTF.

Don't get me wrong I don't mind films with Sad endings. But Endgame was the end and I personally don't need to see my hero's die. I know that seemed to be on everyone's mind for that one. "Some has to die or there are no stakes" Bah... Most comic book hero's are still kicking in the comics.


So ending that way kind of ruined my enjoyment of the rest of the films.. There is still a giant Iron Man and Cap sized hole in this Marvel universe and I dont see anyone close to filling it.

Final moments with Tony are his post-humous hologram and "I love you 3000" though. Retiring Cap definitely makes post-EG MCU lame but I don't see how that taints everything leading up to it. His entire story was one of sadness and loss and EG completely reversed it and had him live happily ever after.

 

[JAWS]

Harry Potter is not even close.


I am hopeful that Reed Richards and team will get me interested again.

 

[JAWS]

Final moments with Tony are his post-humous hologram and "I love you 3000" though. Retiring Cap definitely makes post-EG MCU lame but I don't see how that taints everything leading up to it. His entire story was one of sadness and loss and EG completely reversed it and had him live happily ever after.

But that really does not work as it is just a hologram.

Cap's ending would have meant more but it was too much after the death of Tony. So instead of feeling happy for Cap I just feel hollow inside cause we lost Tony. So while Cap leaving is good for him its ultimately bad for us because we are losing another friend. It like we are Sam and instead of just Frodo leaving us, Pippen gets killed also

LOTR is really a perfect example of not needing our hero's to die. Its sad enough that they some are going to the West and that the film themselves are over. Killing another main character or two would have made it too much. Of course Return of the King as a film had way more to offer then EG so some deaths might have been easier to handle IDK.

I know Endgame is supposed to be dark but personally I think the film feels empty because none of it is very much fun. I mean I was not in love with the film the first time. I did not find myself enjoying it that much even without knowing the hulk would get screwed but the ending really just makes an already flawed film that much harder to return to.

Cap needs to get over himself. He lost a girl he knew for a about a week total

 

[Khev]

Cap needs to get over himself. He lost a girl he knew for a about a week total

Well in the few short moments they had together they loved a lifetime.

 

[matticus]

I am hopeful that Reed Richards and team will get me interested again.

How dare you!

 

[Khev]

I think the Russos knew that the only way to preserve Tony and Steve was to write them out of the MCU. Imagine if they were still around and getting outclassed by King Peggy and King Pepper right now (like we kind of already saw with Peggy's What If story). No thanks.

Chadwick Boseman's tragic passing means that BP will be preserved as well.

 

[matticus]

But that really does not work as it is just a hologram.

Cap's ending would have meant more but it was too much after the death of Tony. So instead of feeling happy for Cap I just feel hollow inside cause we lost Tony. So while Cap leaving is good for him its ultimately bad for us because we are losing another friend. It like we are Sam and instead of just Frodo leaving us, Pippen gets killed also

LOTR is really a perfect example of not needing our hero's to die. Its sad enough that they some are going to the West and that the film themselves are over. Killing another main character or two would have made it too much. Of course Return of the King as a film had way more to offer then EG so some deaths might have been easier to handle IDK.

I know Endgame is supposed to be dark but personally I think the film feels empty because none of it is very much fun. I mean I was not in love with the film the first time. I did not find myself enjoying it that much even without knowing the hulk would get screwed but the ending really just makes an already flawed film that much harder to return to.

Cap needs to get over himself. He lost a girl he knew for a about a week total

Thing is, everyone will be clamoring for Iron Man or Cap to show up in every movie. Blame Evans or Downey in that they didn't want to be in more Marvel movies. Aren't you enjoying your Anthony Mackie Captain America?

Don't worry, they have a plan for Iron Man. No, I am not joking.

 

[JAWS]

Thing is, everyone will be clamoring for Iron Man or Cap to show up in every movie. Blame Evans or Downey in that they didn't want to be in more Marvel movies. Aren't you enjoying your Anthony Mackie Captain America?

Don't worry, they have a plan for Iron Man. No, I am not joking.

I get that Evens and Downey did not want to do it anymore. I would have been fine with Cap riding off in the sunset like he did. But let Tony retire to take care of his wife and child. Sure we would have all been saying.. "where is Tony for this new world ending disaster" but you could bring on whoever the hell that is at the top to take his place.

IDK Cap walked away from it all and was ok with watching disasters take place.. Why not Tony

Anyways if the film was truly epic like Lord of the Rings was then I would probably be Ok with it. But its not that.

Hell I am always a little sad at the end of Return of the Jedi.. Cause its all over and Luke is a bit sad... But I can return to it time and time again. Cause it did not kill my hero's



Oh and EG ****** over the Hulk.

 

[JAWS]

How dare you!

Yeah. Strange is OK. I have never been a huge fan of his. I thought he was great in Infinity War. But he is not the backbone to the MCU

Reed Richards, Professor X.. Please save the MCU


For the record I mean fantastic 4 as a whole I am no Reed Richards fan boy I like Strange more then Richards.

 

[Khev]

I'm just glad that the Infinity Saga went out of its way to show Hulk failing to lift Thor's hammer as the Hulk in The Avengers, failing to lift it as Banner in AOU, and then getting his ass kicked by Thanos in IW so that he could do the clerical work of snapping his fingers in EG while everyone else (Rocket, Pepper, Howard the Duck, etc.) did the actual fighting in the final showdown for the fate of the universe, lol.

 

[matticus]

Yeah. Strange is OK. I have never been a huge fan of his. I thought he was great in Infinity War. But he is not the backbone to the MCU

Reed Richards, Professor X.. Please save the MCU


For the record I mean fantastic 4 as a whole I am no Reed Richards fan boy I like Strange more then Richards.

Yeah I get your point. Not sure anyone can match Cap and Iron Man. But I've always been a Doctor Strange fan and where he can take Marvel is where the possibilities are endless. The multiverse is a door that can bring back Evans and Downey, if they wish so.

The leaders of the Avengers at this point seem to be Captain Marvel, Banner and Wong. With Boseman gone as well, it will just feel like a watered down version of the Avengers. I think this is Thor's last movie and Hemsworth will just be in team movies, similar to Downey.

Patrick Stewart is up there in age, so at least he is getting some MCU treatment in DS2. While DS2 will be the game changer for Phase 4, F4 is the next big landmark after DS2. That team is a big deal and Reed is the uber character for the MCU. I'm sure there will be a new Professor X down the road when Feige wants to tackle mutants.

Phase 4 has only Spider-Man, Moon Knight and Doctor Strange for me. I'll be out then back in when Blade then F4 come out. It might be sad to think that I am more excited for a Midnight Sons team movie compared to the next Avengers.

 

[Dave_W]

I'm just glad that the Infinity Saga went out of its way to show Hulk failing to lift Thor's hammer as the Hulk in The Avengers, failing to lift it as Banner in AOU, and then getting his ass kicked by Thanos in IW so that he could do the clerical work of snapping his fingers in EG while everyone else (Rocket, Pepper, Howard the Duck, etc.) did the actual fighting in the final showdown for the fate of the universe, lol.

You saw his bare arse in Ragnarok. What more do you want?

 

[Darth Snoopy]

You guys should give it another chance, it really is a very good movie.
And while on the surface it campy and humorous, it has some some of the most harrowing moments ever put on film. It's not often that a movie can get me so deeply with one scene, but damn... this one really did. My son (16 at the time) also watched it upon my recommendation and said he was it had some of the toughest scenes he'd watched. And I watched Schindler's List with both my kids a couple of years ago.

Speaking of which; I believe atrocities and traumatic events can (and should) also be open to comedy and satire. I believe it's not the fact that a joke is made out of something -no matter how serious the subject-, it's how intelligent the joke is. And I could find absolutely no fault in the way Waititi handled the humour and satire in Jojo Rabbit. It is a very intelligent, beautifully written and shot.

EDIT: Hrrmmpff... multi-quote doesn't seem to be working, or I don't know how to work it...

This.

And I hope Marvel movies go another ten years!

 

[MeatHookGekko]

But much more than that. I don't like that it's a depressing movie. By killing Tony and basically killing Cap, I never really want to watch it anymore. The final battle is less fun because I know what's coming and Jeepers Creepers they went so dark with Tony's death. Don't even let the guy say good by just sit there like a living corpse. I mean what the hell? The overall look of the film is depressing the subject matter for the most part is depressing so even though they win in the end and bring back everyone the real cherry on top is Cap and IM being taken out (especially IM)

Maybe if Tony didn't have a kid or if Cap snapped his fingers and was the only one to go I could have managed but the way we get to remember Tony with that last shot of him looking they way he did.. WTF.

Don't get me wrong I don't mind films with Sad endings. But Endgame was the end and I personally don't need to see my hero's die. I know that seemed to be on everyone's mind for that one. "Some has to die or there are no stakes" Bah... Most comic book hero's are still kicking in the comics.

So ending that way kind of ruined my enjoyment of the rest of the films.. There is still a giant Iron Man and Cap sized hole in this Marvel universe and I dont see anyone close to filling it.

I saw the ending as closing the arc on the Stark vs Cap dynamic.

Stark was never a team player. And you could argue in the first Avengers movie, he took that missile and expected to die mostly to save Pepper. But by the end he had to take one for the entire universe.

Whereas Steve Rogers always picked everyone else and defending freedom over himself. Until the end, when he had a moment where even though the world would still need Cap even post Thanos, he chose something good for him and just for himself.

What we were seeing was the death of Tony Stark's ego. Once that was gone, there was nothing left. Tony was already dead inside. Even the toxic parts inside you define who you are as a person.

If you look at timeless characters in pop culture. It's never the war they fight on the surface. It's not the fight with Thanos that changes them. It's the war inside of them.

I think the Russo's did a great job with the situation they had in place ( Evans and RDJ wanted out, Feige had a certain way he wanted the movie to go to set up Phase 5, etc, etc. )

 

[JAWS]

I saw the ending as closing the arc on the Stark vs Cap dynamic.

Stark was never a team player. And you could argue in the first Avengers movie, he took that missile and expected to die mostly to save Pepper. But by the end he had to take one for the entire universe.

Whereas Steve Rogers always picked everyone else and defending freedom over himself. Until the end, when he had a moment where even though the world would still need Cap even post Thanos, he chose something good for him and just for himself.

What we were seeing was the death of Tony Stark's ego. Once that was gone, there was nothing left. Tony was already dead inside. Even the toxic parts inside you define who you are as a person.

If you look at timeless characters in pop culture. It's never the war they fight on the surface. It's not the fight with Thanos that changes them. It's the war inside of them.

I think the Russo's did a great job with the situation they had in place ( Evans and RDJ wanted out, Feige had a certain way he wanted the movie to go to set up Phase 5, etc, etc. )

Agree to disagree on some points (Tony dying only for Pepper, Death of his ego psychological meaning) but more than anything I disagree that they handled it well.

I have gone into all of this before, so I won’t recap every issue I have with this film. Tony and Cap and even BW deserved a better film for their send off. Because the movie failed for me on many levels the killing of Tony and leaving of Cap makes the film something that I don’t care to revisit.

“But JAWS, if Hulk had his moment you would like the movie” IDK maybe. Hulk has moments in AOU and that’s a bottom feeder marvel movie to me. Plus I freaking loved IW and hulk was there just to get his ass kicked but that film succeeded everywhere that EG failed .

 

[chrisstbh]

But that really does not work as it is just a hologram.

Cap's ending would have meant more but it was too much after the death of Tony. So instead of feeling happy for Cap I just feel hollow inside cause we lost Tony. So while Cap leaving is good for him its ultimately bad for us because we are losing another friend. It like we are Sam and instead of just Frodo leaving us, Pippen gets killed also

LOTR is really a perfect example of not needing our hero's to die. Its sad enough that they some are going to the West and that the film themselves are over. Killing another main character or two would have made it too much. Of course Return of the King as a film had way more to offer then EG so some deaths might have been easier to handle IDK.

I know Endgame is supposed to be dark but personally I think the film feels empty because none of it is very much fun. I mean I was not in love with the film the first time. I did not find myself enjoying it that much even without knowing the hulk would get screwed but the ending really just makes an already flawed film that much harder to return to.

Cap needs to get over himself. He lost a girl he knew for a about a week total

Even if Tony didn’t die I’m sure RDJ would still have retired from the role, meaning no more Tony Stark Iron Man anyway.

His sacrifice and death was an important moment in his growth as a character from selfish billionaire to hero.

There’s really no weight to these live action movies if there’s no risk of death to either the main characters or their loved ones, live action is a completely different medium than comic books. Sure you can still have some ridiculous stuff but you really have to ground them to a certain extent imo.

You also said you’re tired of the MCU formula but you also don’t seem to like when they deviate from said formula, so what can they do? Genuinely curious.

 

[a-dev]

I think Critical Drinker is a bit unfair on Natalie Portman in that video. He says he doesn't believe she genuinely looks like that (the shot of her as Thor in the trailer) and there must be some CGI - but then he himself includes what seems to be a set photo of her looking pretty buff - IMO the same level of buffness as in the trailer. So I don't think he's giving her the credit she deserves for that. I don't think the trailer shot is any more 'faked' than it would be for a male superhero. It's just cinematic lighting.

 

[chrisstbh]

I think Critical Drinker is a bit unfair on Natalie Portman in that video. He says he doesn't believe she genuinely looks like that (the shot of her as Thor in the trailer) and there must be some CGI - but then he himself includes what seems to be a set photo of her looking pretty buff - IMO the same level of buffness as in the trailer. So I don't think he's giving her the credit she deserves for that. I don't think the trailer shot is any more 'faked' than it would be for a male superhero. It's just cinematic lighting.

I really can’t stand that guy. I blocked his videos yet they constantly show up anyway.

According to him the only way to have Janes character handled well is to have her sacrifice herself for Thor. She can’t be a good character in her own right, she has to serve Thors purpose and his purpose only.