Top Gun: Maverick

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Ripley, Sarah Connor, Princess Leia, Marion Ravenwood, most of the Bond Girls since Barbara Bach, Trinity, Ellie Sattler, Matty Walker, Auntie Entity, Cat Tramell, Alex Forrest Alex Owens and Billie Jean were all strong women long before woke-ism.
Yep. And then on the flip side I think my final jumping off point from the "anti-woke" dopes was when they turned on Trinity in Matrix Resurrections for "getting the same powers as Neo." Because for several years they would cite the same list that you mention above as proof that they were secure enough to root for female action stars but then when one of the names on their own freaking list kicks ass in a new movie they all flip out. :cuckoo:
 
Out digital next week and 4K bluray November!
And early rumors are indicating that it will feature IMAX aspect ratios for the flying scenes. :thud:

Usually for a movie to remain in the Top 2-3 for three entire months it needs to come out at Christmas where it will have no competition in January, February, and March, not the freaking summer blockbuster season! :google
 
There's a term that I've seen floated around recently that I like and it's "non-woke." As opposed to "woke" or "anti-woke" which are two insufferable sides of the same coin.

Non-woke means it doesn't make any effort to be either the former or the latter, it just focuses on telling a good story with good characters and if there are white males then great. If there are women and/or minorities then that's great too, no big either way and it'd be really nice if Hollywood could just get back to that.

TGM actually does have a pretty diverse cast, definitely moreso than the original, but it never for one second lifts anyone's gender or skin color above anyone else's nor do they ever congratulate themselves in order to give the appearance of being on the "right side of history."
I do find it interesting that no one got bent over the female pilot being one of the ones selected. You could see it coming a mile away but I also thought that they made her a roughly equivalent character in terms of skills to the other pilots versus being ridiculously overpowering so when she gets the nod, it feels like she earned it but it was a close decision. If we could just do away with the word "woke" altogether, that'd be fantastic.
 
I do find it interesting that no one got bent over the female pilot being one of the ones selected. You could see it coming a mile away but I also thought that they made her a roughly equivalent character in terms of skills to the other pilots versus being ridiculously overpowering so when she gets the nod, it feels like she earned it but it was a close decision. If we could just do away with the word "woke" altogether, that'd be fantastic.

The word exists because it's a real thing. Everyone knows this to be true, even the people who don't want to admit it. Erasing/banning words and disingenuously changing definitions of words because you don't like them is wrong, period. It's also a very slippery slope.
 
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That being said Maverick was an excellent entertaining movie without the obnoxious "woke" reminders that companies like Disney now constantly insert with the subtlety of a smack upside the head with a ball peen hammer. The box office take reflects this, and what the paying customers actually want. Especially relative to the under performing Disney films of late, which are clearly being rebuked by the public.
 
I do find it interesting that no one got bent over the female pilot being one of the ones selected. You could see it coming a mile away but I also thought that they made her a roughly equivalent character in terms of skills to the other pilots versus being ridiculously overpowering so when she gets the nod, it feels like she earned it but it was a close decision. If we could just do away with the word "woke" altogether, that'd be fantastic.

Both Top Guns could not have been made without actual support from the US military.

In effect, the cost to support the production of TGM was massive. But it's seen, like the first film, as a type of marketing. The first Top Gun generated a ton of military recruitment. So of course this film will have a "diverse" cast.

In order to get DOD support, they usually insist on final veto of the script ( i.e. they do not want situations or themes or plots that make the military look in a bad light) Notice in this film, there is little to no description of the "enemy" at all. The only thing clear is they were likely not Asian, which would incite the Asian, particularly the Chinese, film markets.

Black Hawk Down got DOD support, in exchange, there are things from the Mark Bowden book that never got discussed or filmed. Shawn Ryan and David Mamet made a TV show on CBS, The Unit, which did not get official support, because they insisted on a storyline that showed infidelity. Which raised the cost of the budget, which limited the options, which probably made it easier to cancel the show later if it cost too much.

No one got "bent over" Barbaro/Phoenix because she wasn't turned into a Mary Sue like Rey in Star Wars. Just magically awesome and always right, from the start.

This is a rare case where the star power ( Tom Cruise) was able to over ride the common agenda in most modern films, because he's "bankable" and he delivers big box office and big dollars to his films.

"Woke" and criticism of it is not going away. The past decade or more has shown the breaking of the first rule of the entertainment world - Never attack your audience.

Some people here believe modern films are not woke and want people to stop talking about it. Some people here, like myself, believe that they are. Let's see who prevails. If more people in the former group can support the financial success of films, TV shows, music, books, sports, etc, etc, in those themes and activism, then it will keep happening. However if more people like me just stop supporting those brands, those franchises, those IPs, those channels, those networks, those show runners, those actors, etc ,etc, then it will stop.

What makes "woke" ridiculous in my eyes is it always bends the knee to the God Of Money. So how much virtue is signaling when that happens? How strong are those principles when it can be swayed by dollars alone?

TGM avoided woke because Tom Cruise wanted something different. And he's powerful enough to make that happen. Most people in Hollywood are not.

So let's see whose wallets will prevail. Will the people who want activism in their entertainment spend enough to offset those who leave? I don't see it happening personally,but maybe I'll be surprised.

I would rather see IPs I love or loved or grew up with die off and burn to the ground before they get rebooted with woke. I'd rather see no more Terminator or no more Predator or no more Star Wars if all we are going to get is the woke version. And when enough money is lost, it will end. But many of those fans will never come back. Every IP that chooses to promote agenda, activism, identity politics and grievance cancel culture should be demonetized.

My uncle taught me something as a kid - When people are miserable with what you are giving them, then give them nothing at all, see how they like that instead.

No one wins when you keep attacking your audience because they are offended by agenda over good writing, good storytelling, respecting the characters, respecting the world building and appreciating your fan base.

For those who disagree, let's see if your crowd can buy enough movie tickets for you to get your way.
 
Saw this twice and was going for a 3rd but it disappeared from cinemas on the 3rd week while the terrible movie Spiderman NWH lasted 2+ months. I live in a 3rd World dumb country.
Anyway, I loved TGM so much I was inspired to start building my 1:72 F-14 and T-50 (the enemy stealth fighter) models which were in my stash unbuilt for years as I focused on 1:12 and 1:6 action figures. I've always loved American fighter aircraft and scale models since I was a kid so this movie really spoke to me even if the crazy strategy they did for the bombing mission was something the U.S. airforce/navy will never do in real life.


After watching it twice myself, IMHO, I start to wonder what the extended version will look like. There are clearly sections in the middle of the film that were edited down, probably to trim the running time.

There are elements of the Maverick/Rooster relationship that were probably trimmed. Which is unfortunate since it operates as the heart of the conflict in the film. I also get the feeling that the Phoenix/Bob section was changed. To have no casualties at all is odd for a film like this. Maybe the Navy intervened and said they didn't want American pilots to be killed on screen. The Maverick/Penny relationship was pretty much useless in my book. A romantic subplot for the sake of a subplot. I wish the film spent more time from the POV of Miles Teller. There is little to no progression for him in the movie. I'd really like to see a directors cut of this, though I suspect the pandemic caused all kinds of problems for their production.
 
Both Top Guns could not have been made without actual support from the US military.

In order to get DOD support, they usually insist on final veto of the script ( i.e. they do not want situations or themes or plots that make the military look in a bad light)
It's good that this film was made during the previous administration. If it was filmed today the military would have no doubt demanded less training exercises and more drag queen shows.

Notice in this film, there is little to no description of the "enemy" at all.
That's not a "this film" thing because the original didn't name the enemies either. In my mind the enemy base in TGM was located in Iran with support from Russian pilots in the 5th gen fighters. It's literally the only country that makes sense since we wouldn't be striking a hidden nuclear facility still under construction in China or Russia since they already have thousands of nukes which leaves North Korea or Iran and only Iran still uses F-14's.

The only thing clear is they were likely not Asian, which would incite the Asian, particularly the Chinese, film markets.
Well the restoration of the Taiwanese flag onto the back of Maverick's jacket showed that they obviously didn't care about the Chinese film market. Though holy crap I'm not reminded that its continued rise on the global box office chart is totally without a Chinese release. :google So that's the only reason that it's falling short of the worldwide earnings of IW, EG, Titanic and Avatar. Go Mav. :rock

Black Hawk Down got DOD support, in exchange, there are things from the Mark Bowden book that never got discussed or filmed.
Yeah the movie was definitely less messy than the actual events. If I remember correctly the Somalis were using women and children as human shields as they were advancing down the streets toward the Americans and at one point the US soldiers just started firing at all of them in order to prevent from being overrun. I know there was also someone riding a cow that got incinerated by a minigun (lol) which would have been awesome to see in the movie. :lol

Also the film was very kind to the Ranger portrayed by Orlando Bloom since they made it seem like it wasn't his fault that he fell and caused the entire operation to go sideways.

I would rather see IPs I love or loved or grew up with die off and burn to the ground before they get rebooted with woke. I'd rather see no more Terminator or no more Predator or no more Star Wars if all we are going to get is the woke version.
Now if you're saying Predator as a reference to Prey being the "woke version" then this is the type of blanket statement that works to invalidate anti-woke criticism and turns it all into white noise. Dark Fate woke? Hell yeah. Ghostbusters 2016? Absolutely. But Prey was not and labeling it as such just makes our side look like the "miserable" ones who are never happy with anything and just say that everything we don't like is woke. Both extremes need to thrown right out the window if we're to have any chance of getting things back to the way they used to be.
 
Wait what extended version of TGM!!! :panic:
I'd be fine with deleted scenes but I can't imagine any new cut improving on what we've already got. Even if they add new scenes that are good then it will still rob this movie of being a lean two hour experience (like Raiders, Die Hard, Road Warrior, etc.) which is so rare these days.
 
Well the restoration of the Taiwanese flag onto the back of Maverick's jacket showed that they obviously didn't care about the Chinese film market. Though holy crap I'm not reminded that its continued rise on the global box office chart is totally without a Chinese release. :google So that's the only reason that it's falling short of the worldwide earnings of IW, EG, Titanic and Avatar. Go Mav. :rock

Well ... not exactly. It would have to have had a more than hefty $600+ million haul in China just to approach the $2 billion mark, which puts it close to Infinity War, but not that close to the others (I guess that depends on what you consider "close"). Endgame is the highest-grossing foreign film in China's history, and that made around $629 million.
Not that it really matters. The very nature of the film basically guarantees it was never going to be released in China, regardless of who the unnamed enemy was supposed to be.
 
Well ... not exactly. It would have to have had a more than hefty $600+ million haul in China just to approach the $2 billion mark, which puts it close to Infinity War, but not that close to the others (I guess that depends on what you consider "close"). Endgame is the highest-grossing foreign film in China's history, and that made around $629 million.
Not that it really matters. The very nature of the film basically guarantees it was never going to be released in China, regardless of who the unnamed enemy was supposed to be.
True. Plus even if it was released in China I doubt that many citizens would have wanted to risk jeopardizing their social credit scores by actually going to see it.
 
True. Plus even if it was released in China I doubt that many citizens would have wanted to risk jeopardizing their social credit scores by actually going to see it.
My favorite thing in China is watching the Jumbotrons at the city street crosswalks snapping photos of people jaywalking and flashing their credit score on the giant screen along with their horrified faces and then mobs of people shaming them lol :rotfl
 
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