True Detective

[azurepred]

I think the general consensus of season 2 was it sucked.

I liked it though.



Ani booked them into evidence and then they came up missing. They ended up with Holloway. The ones he brings to the meet are fake (plastic) but he mentions to Velcoro that had he known Velcoro would be there then they could've "talked" implying he has the real gems. Most likely Holloway and Burris split them.

I didn't pick up on those gems being fake. I think almost all agree the first season was near perfection, but I'd still give this one a 8/10. This season just didn't do a good job pulling us in from the get go. I didn't have any problems with the casting or acting.

 

[rdean]

I didn't pick up on those gems being fake. I think almost all agree the first season was near perfection, but I'd still give this one a 8/10. This season just didn't do a good job pulling us in from the get go. I didn't have any problems with the casting or acting.

yup, he said these are plastic, if I had known, we can work something out. or something to that effect.....I liked it from the start, but I also liked every lead role actor from previous roles......I thought w/ all they had to accomplish, from a dead start, they pulled it all together pretty fast for short eps. season. I was interested in all the under currents you could feel were there, but weren't sure how it all went together. When Ray get's done talking to Frank in the prev. eps. at the poker table, I was like he's ragin' on the inside, and then he pulls the table pad off, it just was so right on.....a lot of non-spoken, played to perfection acting in this season, that's rare anymore.

 

[karamazov80]

You guys read about the drama between the writer and director of season 1? I didn't know about it and didn't know anything about it but wondered why they switched to multiple directors this season. Apparently the director Velcoro and Ani interview on the movie set is supposed to be a *** at him from Nik.

Yeah, sometimes great things result from strong artistic conflict. Lots of examples in music.

 

[Deckard]

I didn't think the season sucked at all. I think so much was going on a lot of it went over even those of us who payed full attention. I suspect this will garner more and more praise as people rewatch, binge watch, and come to terms with the fact that it's all Ani's story being told and Ray and Frank and just players in it and not actually the "main characters" so to speak.

Can any of you honestly admit you thought early on that Birdman was a rogue vigilante? That Ray and Frank would end up teamed up like that to the very end, that Woodrough would be the first to die, that Caspere was ****ing his own daughter, that the Cartel was working for Tony, and that Tony was in fact the one running things. This season kept us guessing til the very end yet all the clues were there. To me this season's writing far surpassed that of the first. I think people just liked the idea of blurring the line between Rust's disorder and the supernatural elements. Nothing wrong with that, but this season was more of a slow burn classic noir and there wasn't a thing wrong with it. Neither season gave us full closure. There was no sense that Tuttle was going to be taken down or in any danger with the feds still covering for him in S1. Can't wait for S3.

 

[youbastards]

Yeah, sometimes great things result from strong artistic conflict. Lots of examples in music.

Rumours

 

[karamazov80]

To me this season's writing far surpassed that of the first.

I don't agree on that one. And it's beyond the supernatural element in season 1. Season 1 just felt more organic, better fleshed out, and like something Pizzolatto was really inspired to create. Season 2 is good in my opinion, much better than most other cop shows on TV, but it feels like it was created to fulfill a contractual obligation. So, you've got a talented writer and cast, and they put together something interesting, but it feels more stilted and forced. As a result, things are sometimes awkward, and don't click with a huge chunk of the audience. I think there's an analogy to the last Nolan Batman film, which similarly had a great creative team involved, but just felt like they were fulfilling a contract more than creating something that Nolan was really inspired and motivated to create on its artistic merits.

 

[Deckard]

I don't agree on that one. And it's beyond the supernatural element in season 1. Season 1 just felt more organic, better fleshed out, and like something Pizzolatto was really inspired to create.

I'd credit all that to maintaining a single director throughout season one more so than the writing. This season focused on four character's stories instead of two and had way more going on, that was way more fleshed out than anything we learned about Rust and Marty. Or the cult for that matter.

 

[karamazov80]

I didn't just mean story, I meant the product as a whole. Season 2 did cram more stuff in, but then, similar to Age of Ultron, I think that's one of its deficiencies. Of course, your mileage may vary, but the critical consensus does seem to be that season 2 fell far short of season 1, and I agree with that. But I don't consider season 2 disappointing. I wasn't expecting it to really compare. As I posted earlier, one thing season 2 did excel at IMO was creating tension.

 

[Deckard]

As a whole product, I may agree that Season 1 is better. But not the writing alone.

Using the Nolan analogy, I think most people would agree TDK is more well-written than BB, but I prefer BB overall for being more singularly focused on Bruce and having an overall better "comic book world" feel.

 

[Invictus Sol]

I'll have to re-watch but if a second viewing confirms it, one of the weaknesses with this season is that there was no way for the audience to deduce that Tony and the cartel were pulling the strings. If it's not obvious even in retrospect, then that's sort of cheap writing. Anyone can take a character that had one minute of screentime and then at the end make them the surprise baddie.

 

[Deckard]

There are definitely clues. Just off the top of my head, the little voices he does for Ani and explaining how he hangs out with a lot of different crowds, mentioning he's got Mexicans working for him, the way he's portrayed at the parties as being in a position of power, Frank mentioning to his father in his office that Tony is making his own moves(well before the when he sees him at the casino) etc.

 

[Invictus Sol]

Hmm, gonna keep my eyes open for clues this time around, Deckard!

 

[Deckard]

Remember also, at least imo, he's not running things from the get-go. Catalyst and Osip were definitely in charge for at least a while there but at some point he sees the opportunity to seize power from his father using his connections to the cartel. I need to rewatch it all all again myself, especially around the time the Cartel shows up to deal with Frank.

 

[Devil_666]

Can any of you honestly admit you thought early on that Birdman was a rogue vigilante?

I can, just because going in I knew the focus of this season was corruption and not a serial killer. That was announced before the cast was finalized.

Speaking to The Wrap, he (Nik Pizzolatto) said the second season will center around: “the death of a corrupt city manager of a fictional California city who's found brutally murdered amid a potentially groundbreaking transportation deal that would forever change freeway gridlock in the state. Three law enforcement officers from different cities and branches of the government are tasked with finding out who did it. They soon discover their investigation has much broader and darker implications than they initially thought.”

But everything else you listed was a surprise, for sure.

 

[Gully Foyle]

Season 1 just felt more organic, better fleshed out, and like something Pizzolatto was really inspired to create. Season 2 is good in my opinion, much better than most other cop shows on TV, but it feels like it was created to fulfill a contractual obligation.

Lots of examples in music.

Good points. In the music biz it's known as the "sophomore slump."
You have your whole life to write your first album and then six months to compose & record the second.

I think that--like last season--a lot of the audience was overthinking the plot in an attempt to out-think the ending.
Rather than being a sign of a weak script, this actually reveals how much the plots & characters sucked viewers in.
Folks who bemoan the bleak endings this season just weren't paying attention.
The season telegraphed early on that it was a modern tale of Greek tragedy soaked in every noir trope in the book.

Can any of you honestly admit you thought early on that Birdman was a rogue vigilante?

<Raises hand>
I had no idea initially what Birdman's exact motive was, but the fact that Caspere's body was deliberately left out in public to be discovered suggested that his murderer wanted to expose his den of corruption. And that his murderer had no real outlets to do so. His murderer must therefore be outside any of the main power structures (Vinci, Catalyst, Cartel).

There were folks convinced that Burress was the Birdman (which made no sense from any angle).
Some thought that Ray's father was the Birdman. (WTF?)
Quite a few insisted that Jordan was in league against Frank.
Last season, folks were convinced Rust was secretly behind the murders and working to divert suspicion.

Good mystery/detective stories have misdirection, red herrings, loose ends and they keep the viewer guessing.
And the truth is that most of the viewing public are lousy at detection.
The vast majority of people are as sharp as a bag of wet hair.
The comparisons of Season 1 vs. Season 2 are inevitable, but in an anthology series they become meaningless, IMO.




____

 

[karamazov80]

I actually didn't spend a lot of energy trying to deduce who birdman was, or many of the other plot points really. I had suspicions that he may have been involved with Caspere's associates--a killer for hire type--but the fact that he turned out to be who he was didn't really shock me..

 

[Rock83]

Didn't watch the finale before today.Overall an ok season,nothing special to be honest allthough episode 7 was a good one.Colin Farrell and Vince Vaughn was the two that stole the show,while Kitsch's character was kinda kept at a distance.
There is only so much you can manage to squeeze in in an 8 episode season when there is 4 main characters to focus on.

Through the entire season i was hoping they would link everyone's story together that would lead them to the guy that had destroyed all of their lives.The guy who abused Ray's ex-wife,kidnapped Ani,and the guy that who was going after Frank(Osip).That would have been an interesting development in the story.

One minor complaint about the ending:

Spoiler

Kinda felt in the last shot with the phone that failed to deliver Ray's last message to his son was just unecessary.Like...What was that for?!
It's like he is getting spit on while's he's down and out.His very last message gone through to his son surely would have been a more satsfying ending.

 

[wanderlai]

So it seemed like the Mexicans were content to just take Frank's money... then he had a smartass comment about a ride, so they decided to take his suit which Frank drew the line at....really....come on now???

Ray knows he is getting tailed but drives down the interstate, OJ style, till he runs out of gas? No attempt to evade them or outrun them??? I know chargers have terrible gas mileage but it's better than a big SUV.

Funniest scene...Frank walks the mayor's wife to the pool, she ponders the guys suicide, to which Frank gives her a look and says, " are you dense" lol. I pictured him saying that to Owen Wilson.

S1 was 100x better. The dialog and story in this season sucked IMO.

 

[Deckard]

So it seemed like the Mexicans were content to just take Frank's money... then he had a smartass comment about a ride, so they decided to take his suit which Frank drew the line at....really....come on now???

Ray knows he is getting tailed but drives down the interstate, OJ style, till he runs out of gas? No attempt to evade them or outrun them??? I know chargers have terrible gas mileage but it's better than a big SUV.

Funniest scene...Frank walks the mayor's wife to the pool, she ponders the guys suicide, to which Frank gives her a look and says, " are you dense" lol. I pictured him saying that to Owen Wilson.

S1 was 100x better. The dialog and story in this season sucked IMO.

Frank had 3 million in diamonds in the suit. It was all he had left. Pay attention.

Ray pulled off the highway because he was a wanted fugitive all over the news and kept passing state trooper checkpoints. You can't outrun a gps tracker when it's hooked to your car.

 

[wanderlai]

Frank had 3 million in diamonds in the suit. It was all he had left. Pay attention.

Ray pulled off the highway because he was a wanted fugitive all over the news and kept passing state trooper checkpoints. You can't outrun a gps tracker when it's hooked to your car.

They didn't want his suit until his remark. They were leaving. Ray had a GPS on his car...ok...but try and get some distance or elude them to switch rides.