Underrated Horror Films?

[Something Sexy]

Nice how you singled me out considering everyone else said basically the same thing. Your argument about me not seeing the whole thing is a strawman's argument. If you can't hook the viewer in the first ten minutes, you've failed at your goal. In this case, I found that intro less interesting than staring at a bug zapper and watching mosquitoes fry.

It's shot poorly. The choice of editing was clearly for the sake of art, but I felt that wasn't achieved at all. What was is that the viewer is forced into a migraine to understand what he's seeing. Again, great for a 3-minute metal video, horrible for anything longer than that.

It's tacky. I'm always a believer in the theory that less is more. Not because I don't appreciate gore (I do), but because 99.9% of the time what the viewer will imagine in their head is 1000x worse than what could be portrayed on screen. Additionally, having a woman crawl out from under that and squeeze her tits? Really? That might make a 13-year-old horror dork whack it 'till he's chaffed, but it seemed almost expected and lacking in any "shock" value compared to the stupid imagery before it.

I could pick apart the fail of special effects there, but seeing as how they didn't know how to shoot film, they probably had little to no understanding of human anatomy. So that's somewhat trivial.

Lastly, the only reason this imagery would stick in my mind after viewing it is not because of any left-brain "impact" but moreso self induced anguish. Less "OMG that ____ was ____ing craaaaaaaazy!" and more, "____, I can't believe I sat through that ____." Again, fail.

That's not to say that there won't be people who don't like it. But hey, there are also people in this world who enjoy eating ____. To each their own. If it floats your boat, go sailing.

Nam you know you liked to get core dumped on your chest.

 

[Maglor]

@maglor
AHA! so it was that video...i kept second guessing if it was featured from a NIN video or from the live concert theatrics. so it was M.Manson's video.

Good guess!

Trent Reznor is a different kind of artist though. In the past, he did use some shocking imagery to make his points but not to the same degree as Manson. I generally wouldn't call Trent exploitative (with the possible exception of the "Broken" videos).

 

[thenammagazine]

I don't own any Marilyn Manson and I only have one of his songs in iTunes, but he is also an artist.

Just because someone uses shock/exploitation as a medium does not make then crap.

This is another strawman argument used 100% of the time by failed artists defending garbage. They attempt to label it as "extreme" and then will further that by saying the viewer didn't understand it. In 99.9% of the cases, the viewer did, and it was crap. This "thing" belongs in that higher percentile.

Nam you know you liked to get core dumped on your chest.

Only because I can say that I know you're gonna come and eat it off, savoring the corn nuts.

 

[Maglor]

Nice how you singled me out considering everyone else said basically the same thing.

I wasn't singling you out for any malicious reasons. You just made the point succinctly, and I didn't see a need to quote everyone.

Your argument about me not seeing the whole thing is a strawman's argument. If you can't hook the viewer in the first ten minutes, you've failed at your goal. In this case, I found that intro less interesting than staring at a bug zapper and watching mosquitoes fry... It's shot poorly. The choice of editing was clearly for the sake of art, but I felt that wasn't achieved at all. What was is that the viewer is forced into a migraine to understand what he's seeing. Again, great for a 3-minute metal video, horrible for anything longer than that.

I've gone to art museums and watched non horror stuff that was shot like this. It's not meant to be edge of your seat entertainment. It is meant to wash over you and create a feeling. It takes more than the first 10 minutes of this film to do that.

That's not to say that there won't be people who don't like it. But hey, there are also people in this world who enjoy eating ____. To each their own. If it floats your boat, go sailing.

Yes it is a matter of opinion, but don't imply that only freaks would like it.

 

[fosing]

I will probably get bashed for this one but I am going to toss Dead Snow out there if it hasn't been mentioned yet.

german zombies, that movie reminded me of castle wolfenstein.

 

[ArmoredFoe]

As for being overrated... have enough people even heard of Begotten for it to be overrated?

"Artsy fartsy" isn't the term I would personally choose because I happen to like art movies. I don't know how anyone could watch all of Begotten and not see it as an art movie. Clearly it is an art movie out of a twisted mind, but that doesn't make it crap IMO. It is a mixture of art and exploitation. It's description at Wikipedia as a "experimental/horror film" makes good sense to me.

As to being available in technicolor, here was the intent with this movie: I think that's pretty damn cool.

Yeah I guess "crap" wasnt a good choice of words, but i guess its my opinion. As for being over rated again my opinion because when I was presented with this movie I had heard so much about it from I guess you could say an "underground rant" amongst horror fans. So when i heard all the "crazy, disturbing" stuff about this film I was like I must see this and then when i finally did see it I was rather bored and just sat and watched it with very little interest. I will agree that artsy fartsy is definetly where its at. Its not my type of flick, but not knocking those who like it. My friend who got a copy thought it was the greatest movie ever when we watched it. Id say hes a gore hound also and he thought it was fantastic while I sat and just waited for the ending, but then again I like Flowers of Flesh and Blood and Aftermath.

So to sum my "crap" up again its just my opinion. This is a great thread by the way.

 

[Something Sexy]

This is another strawman argument used 100% of the time by failed artists defending garbage. They attempt to label it as "extreme" and then will further that by saying the viewer didn't understand it. In 99.9% of the cases, the viewer did, and it was crap. This "thing" belongs in that higher percentile.



Only because I can say that I know you're gonna come and eat it off, savoring the corn nuts.

You had me at corn nuts.

german zombies, that movie reminded me of castle wolfenstein.

 

[Maglor]

This is another strawman argument used 100% of the time by failed artists defending garbage. They attempt to label it as "extreme" and then will further that by saying the viewer didn't understand it. In 99.9% of the cases, the viewer did, and it was crap. This "thing" belongs in that higher percentile.

So you assume that you "get" Begotten but...

It's tacky. I'm always a believer in the theory that less is more. Not because I don't appreciate gore (I do), but because 99.9% of the time what the viewer will imagine in their head is 1000x worse than what could be portrayed on screen. Additionally, having a woman crawl out from under that and squeeze her tits? Really? That might make a 13-year-old horror dork whack it 'till he's chaffed, but it seemed almost expected and lacking in any "shock" value compared to the stupid imagery before it.

I could pick apart the fail of special effects there, but seeing as how they didn't know how to shoot film, they probably had little to no understanding of human anatomy. So that's somewhat trivial.

...the the fact that you are questioning the directors knowledge of anatomy and assuming that the woman's behavior was meant to titillate shows that you don't get it.

It' isn't meant to be medically/anatomically accurate it is meant to make you think... what could be implied by "God" slowly killing himself? It's meant to make you feel and think... not think about how "accurate" it is.


The woman is behaving the way she is because she is about to impregnate herself "Gods" seed. (I made sure that the clip didn't include that bit. ) She then gives birth to the "Son of Earth."

 

[thenammagazine]

I wasn't singling you out for any malicious reasons. You just made the point succinctly, and I didn't see a need to quote everyone.

My point still stands. At the end of the day, it's garbage.

I've gone to art museums and watched non horror stuff that was shot like this. It's not meant to be edge of your seat entertainment. It is meant to wash over you and create a feeling. It takes more than the first 10 minutes of this film to do that.

See my previous remark about artists defending garbage. I attended a similar show where the "artist" had done blotch paintings in his own urine and feces (don't ask). It was quite literally ____, on both the genre and art formats. My point still stands. If you can't hook the viewer in the first 10 minutes, you've failed. Which is likely why he moved from film to directing videos whereas most directors do the reverse.

Yes it is a matter of opinion, but don't imply that only freaks would like it.

Freaks have taste. IMHO, you have to be easily entertained to actually enjoy sitting through this. It's not art for the sake of art. Nor is it "shocking." There's nothing intriguing about it or remotely creative. If I had to draw up a comparison, it's like eating KFC for the sake of wanting a torrential case of salmonella diarrhea.

So you assume that you "get" Begotten but...

...the the fact that you are questioning the directors knowledge of anatomy and assuming that the woman's behavior was meant to titillate shows that you don't get it.

It' isn't meant to be medically/anatomically accurate it is meant to make you think... what could be implied by "God" slowly killing himself? It's meant to make you feel and think... not think about how "accurate" it is.

Again, a strawman's argument. The only reason I "don't get it" is because my brain does not perceive it the same way as yours. Society is based on majority rule and from what we've seen in this thread, majority thinks your little flick is garbage. Deal with it. We understood it and we though it was crap. I highly doubt you're gonna change anybody's mind. Especially about that, and least of all one of the most stubborn board members here. If there was any merit to your argument, we wouldn't be having this discussion and I'd be defending Begotten.

 

[ArmoredFoe]

I personally loved Dead Snow, and some one else mentioned it a few posts back...Wolf Creek. I thought that was a great movie as well.

 

[Maglor]

Yeah I guess "crap" wasnt a good choice of words, but i guess its my opinion. As for being over rated again my opinion because when I was presented with this movie I had heard so much about it from I guess you could say an "underground rant" amongst horror fans. So when i heard all the "crazy, disturbing" stuff about this film I was like I must see this and then when i finally did see it I was rather bored and just sat and watched it with very little interest. I will agree that artsy fartsy is definetly where its at. Its not my type of flick, but not knocking those who like it. My friend who got a copy thought it was the greatest movie ever when we watched it. Id say hes a gore hound also and he thought it was fantastic while I sat and just waited for the ending, but then again I like Flowers of Flesh and Blood and Aftermath.

So to sum my "crap" up again its just my opinion. This is a great thread by the way.

Cheers bro!

 

[ArmoredFoe]

See my previous remark about artists defending garbage. I attended a similar show where the "artist" had done blotch paintings in his own urine and feces (don't ask). It was quite literally ____, on both the genre and art formats. My point still stands. If you can't hook the viewer in the first 10 minutes, you've failed. Which is likely why he moved from film to directing videos whereas most directors do the reverse.

This makes me think of some GG Allen type stuff

 

[karamazov80]

I don't own any Marilyn Manson and I only have one of his songs in iTunes, but he is also an artist.

Just because someone uses shock/exploitation as a medium does not make then crap.

I agree. Being a horrible "musician" with nothing interesting or worthwhile to say makes him crap.

 

[Maglor]

My point still stands. At the end of the day, it's garbage.



See my previous remark about artists defending garbage. I attended a similar show where the "artist" had done blotch paintings in his own urine and feces (don't ask). It was quite literally ____, on both the genre and art formats. My point still stands. If you can't hook the viewer in the first 10 minutes, you've failed. Which is likely why he moved from film to directing videos whereas most directors do the reverse.



Freaks have taste. IMHO, you have to be easily entertained to actually enjoy sitting through this. It's not art for the sake of art. Nor is it "shocking." There's nothing intriguing about it or remotely creative. If I had to draw up a comparison, it's like eating KFC for the sake of salmonella diarrhea.

I just want you to see that these statements are opinions. [Yes I see your IMHO.]

To be clear: I don't find the movie Begotten to be entertaining either. And I don't go to art museums to be entertained. If I did I'm sure I would see Begotten as "crap" too.

 

[Maglor]

This makes me think of some GG Allen type stuff

That man truly was a no talent hack. And crazy to boot.

I agree. Being a horrible "musician" with nothing interesting or worthwhile to say makes him crap.

This is a fair point.

Not one I happen to agree with, but a reasonable argument none-the-less

 

[The Batman Professor]

From 2001 to 2005 I taught a class called ART, CULTURE, AND THE HORROR FILMS OF THE 1970'S, which was a really incredible experience. We examined some of the "hot button" topics of the era, and watched a film that had some parallels. For instance, we discussed the "women's movement," and screened THE BABY, which just might be the most hilariously twisted PG film ever made. Films in the series were:
THE NIGHT STALKER (investigative journalism / watergate)
THE OMEGA MAN (paranoia / weapons of mass destruction)
THE BABY (see above)
THE EXORCIST (god is dead movement)
BLACULA (black power)
RAW MEAT (counterculture)
KINGDOM OF THE SPIDERS (environmental issues)
THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE (desensitization / mei lai massacre)
SUSPIRIA (pop art)
DAWN OF THE DEAD and ZOMBIE (consumer culture / post imperialism)

You would be surprised how many students had seen NONE of these films.

 

[Maglor]

From 2001 to 2005 I taught a class called ART, CULTURE, AND THE HORROR FILMS OF THE 1970'S, which was a really incredible experience. We examined some of the "hot button" topics of the era, and watched a film that had some parallels. For instance, we discussed the "women's movement," and screened THE BABY, which just might be the most hilariously twisted PG film ever made. Films in the series were:
THE NIGHT STALKER (investigative journalism / watergate)
THE OMEGA MAN (paranoia / weapons of mass destruction)
THE BABY (see above)
THE EXORCIST (god is dead movement)
BLACULA (black power)
RAW MEAT (counterculture)
KINGDOM OF THE SPIDERS (environmental issues)
THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE (desensitization / mei lai massacre)
SUSPIRIA (pop art)
DAWN OF THE DEAD and ZOMBIE (consumer culture / post imperialism)

You would be surprised how many students had seen NONE of these films.

Great post!

I have long felt that film has the potential to be the highest art-form because it encompasses images, the spoken word (poetry and prose), and music. It can thus do so much more than simply entertain.

 

[karamazov80]

I will say this about Begotten--it is able to evoke a response from people. I suppose that disgust or strong indifference have to count for something. If someone wants to label that art, that is their right, but similar to what Nam is saying, if you aren't producing anything that enriches in some way or another (entertaining people, informing people, exciting people, giving people something interesting to think about, etc.), then I think it is a sad excuse for art. Sure, you could smear your feces on the wall and call it art. Some emo teenagers in, well, Marilyn Manson t-shirts will probably love it. But to me, that kind of stuff is one of the lowest forms of "art." It is easy to do, it doesn't say much of anything. It doesn't even entertain on any level. Oh, you want to speak of the true nature of man and your insightful, cynical understanding of reality as nothing but dog ____? Good for you, but I'm not going to waste my time on that kind of nonsense.

 

[thenammagazine]

This makes me think of some GG Allen type stuff

Never put two-and-two together, but I'm willing to bet he would've probably been an influence.

I remember the artist walking up to us and asking what I thought, and probably uttering the unoriginal (I was working off of a night of drinking and a bloody mary breakfast), I said, "My bandmates do the same thing to my toilet after a night of partying. It's completely uninspiring, and literally ____."

 

[furystorm]

Just purchased a copy of Flowers of Flesh... on eBay, I love this trash cinema, etc.

Great thread!