What about a rating system for customizers?

[Darklord Dave]

I'm just brainstorming here - but I think everyone agrees that there is a huge gap between customizing services offered by various people/groups.

If there were specific feedback ratings for customizers' services perhaps there would be more accountability and more accurate information. Customizers who deliver in a timely fashion would be rated higher than those that take years (literally sometimes).

Also we could track each project through it's life - tracking solicitation date, delivery date, whether full amount or deposit was required, etc.

And we could probably do that retroactively for a lot of customizers too based on threads here.

I know the customizers might not be into it - but it would also eliminate a barrier to new customers who might not want to jump into a project not knowing a customizers history. If they can see they've had 10 previous projects that all delivered within 90 days - they'd be more likely to invest in a new project.

Of course if we track active projects it can show if a customizer is getting over extended by soliciting a lot of things at the same time.

I just thought of this after reading the issues in the "Customizers will have to post in the sales threads" thread - I'm very curious to know your thoughts. I'm also interested in knowing if someone might be willing to administer this - perhaps some compensation would be warranted as well for this role.

Thoughts?

 

[robbiethepainter]

I'm OK with it.
I will say that I'm one of the long build time customizers and its because I have a full time job. Most if not all of my buyers seem to understand and except that. Maybe with the new rating system those that are new to buying customs can be educated on the process.

 

[shocktrooper_au]

Maybe there should be 2, one for the proffesionals and one for the hobbyist customiser? Depending on the time/and duties involved I could be interested.

 

[ProgMatinee]

How about a color/word coded system that differentiates "Prepayed" from "Ready to Ship" customs?

Personally, I'm way more willing to buy someone's custom if the item is literally in hand and ready for mailing. I'd pay as much as 50% more knowing that than I would having to hassle with the downpayment waiting for God knows when and it would be handy to know which of those items are ready.

Maybe the thread title can be changed to reflect the status of the project, so you don't have to scroll through the posts to find an update.

Something like:

Interest guaging
Prepayments
In process 25%
In process 75%
Ready to ship

 

[CREG Customs]

I've stopped new projects to get caught up due to some of my outsourcing getting back logged but at the same time I have never missed an order. So with the way people are rightly gun shy around here with all the customizers who have ducked and ran - I'm game for ideas that can reflect dependability for those who are infact, dependable.

 

[Niltusk]

It would definitely be handy to have an "at a glance" track record.

 

[Mr. EcKo]

I'm am well OK with this. This is a great idea!!!!!

Myself delivering exceptional services to my fellow Freaks . I would love having a higher rated feedback standing.

 

[Dr. Odd]

I agree the more accessible info on customizers is for potential buyers or investors to find, the more able they are to make an educated decision on the risks involved.
It can't hurt

 

[mg2065]

I'm ok with this. I think a dashboard view would be helpful...Interest threads created, active projects, abandoned projects, completed projects, total rating, etc. If possible, pivot the data for each #. If i'm showing 1 abandon project, you could click and see the details (reason). Any interest thread with no activity for 90 days is automatically marked as abandoned.

I think each project should have stages. Interest, development, production, complete. Creating a view/ summary of each artist would be enough to spur accountability. I dont believe the rating should come in to play until money is collected. If you cant mark your project as completed after 90 days from $ collected, then your rating will be affected. 90 days is just a place holder for whatever timeframe you choose.

Like many others, I have a full time job and just customize for fun. From interest to completion could take a long time but i wouldn't want to see a poor rating because i'm slow.

It would be nice to update your project without bumping the thread. Maybe a blog function within the dashboard. I feel silly bumping a thread with a minimal update so i wait until I have something meaningful to post. That could be viewed as poor communication but those who have pm'd me always get an fast response.

With that said, i'll conform to whatever you decide. I like the community, have made several great friends, and it provides the perfect outlet for my creative side.

Mike

 

[robbiethepainter]

I'm ok with this. I think a dashboard view would be helpful...Interest threads created, active projects, abandoned projects, completed projects, total rating, etc. If possible, pivot the data for each #. If i'm showing 1 abandon project, you could click and see the details (reason). Any interest thread with no activity for 90 days is automatically marked as abandoned.

I think each project should have stages. Interest, development, production, complete. Creating a view/ summary of each artist would be enough to spur accountability. I dont believe the rating should come in to play until money is collected. If you cant mark your project as completed after 90 days, then your rating will be affected. 90 days is just a place holder for whatever timeframe you choose.

Like many others, I have a full time job and just customize for fun. From interest to completion could take a long time but i wouldn't want to see a poor rating because i'm slow.

It would be nice to update your project without bumping the thread. Maybe a blog function within the dashboard. I feel silly bumping a thread with a minimal update so i wait until I have something meaningful to post. That could be viewed as poor communication but those who have pm'd me always get an fast response.

With that said, i'll conform to whatever you decide. I like the community, have made several great friends, and it provides the perfect outlet for my creative side.

Mike

I agree. Speed of completion doesn't always mean quality. Some of us take longer then we anticipate because we are trying to get the project perfect. We shouldn't be chastised for doing our best.
Too many people have cut and run giving customizers a bad name.

 

[karamazov80]

Some good ideas here. I definitely think completion time "following payment" is the key indicator (be nice to have an average across projects), as no one should be penalized for someone simply taking their time, or even never delivering, when there is no financial investment by customers. But ultimately, there are two concerns these ratings should account for: 1) does a member seem to be motivated to actually finish projects or not; and 2) is a member are getting in over his/her head, whether it be due to too many projects on the table at once, chronic problems with tailors, painters, or casters, funding issues that require new projects to be solicited way in advance to pay for completion of unfinished projects, etc. Measures that tap into those things that reflect whether or not an artist (or someone acting as their proxy to promote an artist) is reliable is key IMO.

Regarding communication, I don't know if guys need to constantly update their thread when there isn't something worthwhile to say, but barring that, I think they should answer e-mails/PMs from customers who have paid in a reasonable timeframe. Guys who just go off the grid for weeks or months at a time seems unacceptable to me, when they have taken money for projects. Also, when guys are erratic in their response to messages, that should be noted. If you've paid someone $1,000 for a deposit, and they respond when they feel like it, then that's a problem IMO. Communication is important. So if we have some indicator of communication in such a rating system, I think that would also help.

Regarding Prog's suggestions, I think another relevant status is "Deposit Required" because guys like Robbie and Cheungkinmen--guys who do it the right way IMO--being hobbyists with real world work they have to attend to, understandably need some money down to pay for materials upfront. But they don't take on too many projects at once, are very communicative, and maybe most importantly, seem to have a respect for the fact that they are entrusted with folks' money. This isn't to say that taking deposits ensures someone is reliable, but I think it's one more indicator that can help people make an informed decision.

Regarding the completion level, I'm not sure if that would be very reliable. Lots of guys here seem to have difficulties accurately assessing this for one reason or another. One artist I bought something from early this year said the project was "nearly done." I waited a couple more months after that before selling my spot on his list, and several months later, there is still not much movement there.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Something I'm curious about, for this new Sales section, will you make it against the rules for people to require that payment be sent as a gift??

Letting customizers require that payment be sent as a gift seems counter-intuitive to all these new changes.

 

[robbiethepainter]

Something I'm curious about, for this new Sales section, will you make it against the rules for people to require that payment be sent as a gift??

Letting customizers require that payment be sent as a gift seems counter-intuitive to all these new changes.

Do people require it? Or do they give the option of gift or pay fees? I personally find the "pay fees" lazy on the part of the seller. Just add it to the price then you don't have to even bother.

But people have the right to free will. If a customizer says it must be a gift payment the buyer can simply decide if they want the item enough to take the risk of gifting the payment. If they have doubt then don't do the deal. People need to take more responsibility for their purchases. A lot of these responses people are giving seem to be implying Dave should be policing this site. I think people should take more ownership of their transactions.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Do people require it?

I just came from Kato's Joker Coat thread, and saw he asked someone to re-send payment as a gift or send him $5 to cover the fee.

But people have the right to free will. If a customizer says it must be a gift payment the buyer can simply decide if they want the item enough to take the risk of gifting the payment. If they have doubt then don't do the deal. People need to take more responsibility for their purchases. A lot of these responses people are giving seem to be implying Dave should be policing this site. I think people should take more ownership of their transactions.

Agreed, which is kinda why I don't like all these changes. If I were a customizer who offered my services, I would feel a bit put upon. Kinda like guilty until proven innocent. Putting Commerce behind a pay wall, and this rating system, feels a lot like eBay "punishing" sellers to try and protect buyers.

 

[karamazov80]

Well, there's a bit of a gray area there, in that there are certain forum policies put in place to protect boardies from those who would prey on them. Disallowing sellers who haven't been members for a certain amount of time and genuine contributors is a part of that (even though this is changing). Keeping obvious scammers away from the site and banning those who screw over others is another. Providing a feedback system is one more. The reality is that there is a middle ground where we find ourselves, between total policing and a laissez fair system of no formal enforcement. Regarding gift payments, it is strongly discouraged, but not against policy outright, which is a way of straddling that line. The forum could set out more formal rules that would encourage safer transactions, and I think that the benefits of forum membership are such that sellers would abide. One of those could be making gift requests an infractionable offense. But resources for enforcement are limited, and beyond that there would be some negative push-back, so Dave doesn't want to go that route.

 

[karamazov80]

Agreed, which is kinda why I don't like all these changes. If I were a customizer who offered my services, I would feel a bit put upon. Kinda like guilty until proven innocent. Putting Commerce behind a pay wall, and this rating system, feels a lot like eBay "punishing" sellers to try and protect buyers.

The truth is that there have been some widespread, troubling behaviors in the custom section by sellers. Current sellers, putting aside the laundry list of former custom artists who screwed folks over, wittingly or unwittingly. Clearly, there are a number of boardies who recognize this and have made their voices heard. And the guys selling things here aren't doing so out of charity. They are doing so to make money and that's fantastic. But that comes with some responsibility to those who are buying. To my eyes, this suggestion is only facilitating responsibility, by providing more accountability.

I sell on eBay a lot and know how tough it can be for sellers. But I don't see this as comparable. Really, Dave just seems to be suggesting that we provide more transparency and objective information available to those who want to buy. It isn't like buyers can't have feedback left for them, or will always win out in any dispute a la eBay.

 

[Laney74]

There is a need to initially define some parameters for gaining interest and requesting funds. This needs to be able to be applied across all custom offerings. Once this is in place we have something to measure or rate customizers against. A firm set of expectations and a step by step process, that everyone is aware of, no matter whether buying or selling.

No point considering a rating system, if there is no consistency in the way it's judged.

To allow this I would like to see a process like the following implemented in order to sell anything.

1. Start an interest thread
2. When interest is at the appropriate level a prototype must be produced.
3. With Proto complete, deposits can be asked for to lock in buyers - no more than 10- 20% of final price
4. Customiser goes away and makes the amount required - within a 60 day period
5. When all items have been produced and ready for shipping, customiser can request final*
payment and when received sends out immediately.

Rating should be based on 3 points

1. Quality of final product (0 to 5)
2. Time for manufacturing (0 to 5)
3. Communication with clients (0 to 5)

While it may take some longer to produce, they may be marked down on point 2, but may have superior quality because of the time taken, so points will be picked up in point 1. Point 3 is also a measure of good salesman ship. In the end they end up with a mark out of 15, with future buyers able to see where their strengths lie in getting projects complete and as such they are also able to make better decisions on whether to support to avoid projects.

 

[Peteskywalker]

I am all for a feedback system but when it comes to buyer protection people really need to start taking a common sense approach.
I can think of a perfect example where a certain member that had only been a member for a month with 0 feedback offered painting work for a ridiculous price and people leaped at chance senting him hundreds of dollars worth of heads and very few have got them back.
This just shows that even with a customizer rating system people will still get burned if they don’t use their common sense.

 

[turbo.VS.ozone]

I think this is a very good idea as long as its an overall assessment/rating system that includes rating the quality of the product, schedule of production from start to finish, communication, and overall customer experience.

 

[Punishment1218]

The rating system is helpful as long as certain parameters are set. The new customizers have to build up their rep, and this will work to their advantage (which is good). That way, you can be assured that they do good work and produce it in a timely manner. However, You don't want to have a pissing contest on here where a buyer gets upset because the seller didn't do something to their liking, but is a good person. Then you'll have it like Ebay...which is terrible.

I think the seller has to give a time frame of the work being done up front. I think they DO need to post communication on there ( also prevents them from having to answer a billion PMs) and post prototype work (we all like pics). For the reputable sellers, this shouldn't be a problem.

Also Dave, if you want someone to help administer this, I'll be glad to offer my services.