What about a rating system for customizers?

[Invictus Sol]

I don't agree with a limited time on customs. Its fine if some one is doing a few but some of us do full runs that are large in scale in our free time.

I agree with Robbie.

Yeah, all of it is definitely not going to be applicable to every customizer and there are a few talented artists on the board that would never go for such a regimented system. I just really like how he's keeping the client in the loop.

I was thinking something more along these lines:

"Pixletwin paid promptly and was easy to communicate with. Very reasonable."

and

"Prog was a total nightmare to work with. Sent me a head without asking if I was available and kept promising to pay me saying he was low on funds. When I offered to just send the head back he sent me death threats."

or

"Prog PM'd me 5 times a day from the day he sent the head till the day he received the head back from me (I had the head for 40 days). Prog is a real pain in the neck. He pays, but I recommend charging extra because he is a bit high maintenance."

That kind of differentiation is what I was talking about.

Prog's got some great points and I think ultimately the customizer is more in a position of power than the client. The client has reason to be agreeable so long as the customizer is in possession of their sculpts and/or money. Plus, the customizer can always 'rate' a problematic client by just refusing to allow them on their future lists, like Dave said.

That said, there are a few folks that get on the lists with unrealistic expectations that will probably low score the artist even though the product was delivered in a reasonable amount of time, by that artist's known track record. I think it's important that the feedback not be anonymous. Board name and confirmed sale should be public record.

 

[pixletwin]

So because a customizer has "more power" it means that they shouldn't receive fair treatment under a feedback system?

 

[robbiethepainter]

I really don't care whether or not there is a rating system. Most of the things I offer are based on requests so most of the people I work with are returning customers. And so if the rating system says that I'm really slow, then let it say that. It will inform the new people that my projects take time. My only concern is that I don't get booted from this site for not hitting the "30 day rule".

 

[Invictus Sol]

So because a customizer has "more power" it means that they shouldn't receive fair treatment under a feedback system?

Did you read what I wrote? I'm just acknowledging reality and I agree with you in the second paragraph that there are definitely problematic clients. I agree with Dave that the ultimate rating an artist can give the board member is simply not to work with them again. This is why I also advocate no anonymous feedback. There are certain people here that when they complain have no credibility because they're always complaining. Thus, negative feedback from them will be dismissed by anyone seasoned enough on the boards. As far as an actual rating from artists to board members, dunno. Seems messy to me. Would be good if the artist has the option to leave a direct response to any feedback left for them on their page.

 

[pixletwin]

Did you read what I wrote? I'm just acknowledging reality and I agree with you in the second paragraph that there are definitely problematic clients. I agree with Dave that the ultimate rating an artist can give the board member is simply not to work with them again. This is why I also advocate no anonymous feedback. There are certain people here that when they complain have no credibility because they always complaining. Thus, negative feedback from them will be dismissed by anyone seasoned enough on the boards. As far as an actual rating, dunno. Seems messy to me. Would be good if the artist has the option to leave a direct response to any feedback left for them on their page.

Oh I read it. Your post basically stated that you had no position. My question was merely pressing you for a stance that wasn't "well gee, he sure makes a good point and so do you."

 

[robbiethepainter]

It was not a response really just my own comment.

 

[Invictus Sol]

Was responding to pix, Robbie. Sorry for any confusion.

Oh I read it. Your post basically stated that you had no position. My question was merely pressing you for a stance that wasn't "well gee, he sure makes a good point and so do you."

Wow, what an absolute d-bag way to read it.

 

[ProgMatinee]

I do think you've got some points Pix. I was just teasing about it will never happen. I do think "failure to pay quickly" is VERY UNLIKELY for a custom because customizers typically don't even start work until WELL WELL WELL after you paid.

Some customizers are incredibly professional with their turn around, those that don't over burden themselves...

But customizers don't have a leg to stand on about quick payment when it simply translates to them having access to your deposit for 12 weeks instead of 16 weeks.

If there are truly people who hound customizers as soon as the money exhanges hands, yes the customizer should address that, but I think thats a few and far between situation.

Often, these "bad customers" are people who are given the guilt trip by people who have waited even longer. As I tried to make my point in the original post, it shouldn't be a contest between people who can afford to loan people money or are willing to ignore the delays of people they are "friends" with versus people who like me who just want a timely and professional transaction as promised.

Inevitably a buyer can't stand the delay anymore, threatens and hounds the customizer and then some friends on the forum protect the customizer and the buyer becomes the bad guy. Sounds like the DarkArtist situation.

I've seen that happen more than I have a truly unreasonable buyer.

But I concede your point certainly does stand when it does happen.

Back to deposits, I think some customizers use it as a cash advance rather than a true retainer.

In reality a deposit should go into escrow, be held in account until work has begun and be allocated at a rate, with retainage being held over until the product is complete.

I think half the customizers here take their deposits and spend it, thus the incentive lies more on grabbing more deposits than actually finishing product. THAT is a primary reason for too many "interest threads".

 

[pixletwin]

Wow, what an absolute d-bag way to read it.

I read it that way because that is what you wrote and in the future don't begin a response with a "d-bag" statement like "Did you even read what I wrote?" because your addressee will almost certainly respond in kind, which I did.

@Prog, I know you were being partially-facetious. I know you well enough to pick up on that.

 

[Invictus Sol]

...Back to deposits, I think some customizers use it as a cash advance rather than a true retainer.

In reality a deposit should go into escrow, be held in account until work has begun and be allocated at a rate, with retainage being held over until the product is complete.

I think half the customizers here take their deposits and spend it, thus the incentive lies more on grabbing more deposits than actually finishing product. THAT is a primary reason for too many "interest threads".

I've also thought an escrow account would be a great idea and a way of eliminating risk for the buyer in those cases where the artist simply abandons the project. Can't see too many customizers going for it, though.

 

[SwedishHeat]

I think a tracking system was mentioned earlier, and I think that would be the best way to offer transparency and educate potential buyers about the situation. I don't think you can force accountability on anyone, so I wouldn't try to do anything like that. I think a rating system is too subjective, and like eBay you would get hyperbolic comments like "A++++, super painter, will do business with again", those sorts of things don't help anyone, but. . .

A tracking system that is fact based, with specific, actual dates, would give buyers a clear picture of how long the project will take. Here's how I imagine it would work:

• Column 1 is the buyer's screen name, for identification purposes.
• Column 2 is the "Begin Date", the date the head was sent to be painted, or the date money was sent for a sculpt purchase, etc. This date would be uploaded by the buyer
• Column 3 is the description of work to be done, it would be drop down menu of "head casting", "resculpt", "repaint", "custom figure", "custom accessory", "custom clothing"
• Column 4 is the "Ship Date", the day the seller sends the finished work to the buyer. This date would be uploaded by the seller.
• Column 5 is the "Received Date", this date would be uploaded by the buyer, simply as a check against the sellers' Ship Date, to dissuade sellers from prematurely marking an item as sent.
• Column 6 is the "Project Length", would be the number of days from "Begin Date" to "Ship Date". . . hopefully this database or tracking system, could automatically count the days between those two dates.

Until a Ship Date is uploaded, the background color of that transaction row would be RED. Once the Ship Date is uploaded, the background color of that row would be marked as GREEN. This would provide an easy visual cue to see how many projects the seller currently has in his or her backlog.

As an added bonus, if this system could provide a running average of all the "Project Length" fields, at the bottom of Column 6, it would give a buyer an estimate as to how long a project will take.

If it's okay with the buyer and seller, perhaps tracking numbers could be uploaded into this tracking system. I think it would be best if this column was viewable to only the people involved in the transaction. If this functionality is not possible, I would leave it out, as privacy is a concern here.

If a customizer/seller chooses not to participate in this tracking system, then that is on them, and the buyer will have to realize that the seller is not interested in being transparent, and will have to assume the risk, just like in paying via gift. Participation in this system should not be required to transact business, but it should be used as a value added tool for the community.

 

[Darklord Dave]

I think a tracking system was mentioned earlier, and I think that would be the best way to offer transparency and educate potential buyers about the situation. I don't think you can force accountability on anyone, so I wouldn't try to do anything like that. I think a rating system is too subjective, and like eBay you would get hyperbolic comments like "A++++, super painter, will do business with again", those sorts of things don't help anyone, but. . .

A tracking system that is fact based, with specific, actual dates, would give buyers a clear picture of how long the project will take. Here's how I imagine it would work:

• Column 1 is the buyer's screen name, for identification purposes.
• Column 2 is the "Begin Date", the date the head was sent to be painted, or the date money was sent for a sculpt purchase, etc. This date would be uploaded by the buyer
• Column 3 is the description of work to be done, it would be drop down menu of "head casting", "resculpt", "repaint", "custom figure", "custom accessory", "custom clothing"
• Column 4 is the "Ship Date", the day the seller sends the finished work to the buyer. This date would be uploaded by the seller.
• Column 5 is the "Received Date", this date would be uploaded by the buyer, simply as a check against the sellers' Ship Date, to dissuade sellers from prematurely marking an item as sent.
• Column 6 is the "Project Length", would be the number of days from "Begin Date" to "Ship Date". . . hopefully this database or tracking system, could automatically count the days between those two dates.

Until a Ship Date is uploaded, the background color of that transaction row would be RED. Once the Ship Date is uploaded, the background color of that row would be marked as GREEN. This would provide an easy visual cue to see how many projects the seller currently has in his or her backlog.

As an added bonus, if this system could provide a running average of all the "Project Length" fields, at the bottom of Column 6, it would give a buyer an estimate as to how long a project will take.

If it's okay with the buyer and seller, perhaps tracking numbers could be uploaded into this tracking system. I think it would be best if this column was viewable to only the people involved in the transaction. If this functionality is not possible, I would leave it out, as privacy is a concern here.

If a customizer/seller chooses not to participate in this tracking system, then that is on them, and the buyer will have to realize that the seller is not interested in being transparent, and will have to assume the risk, just like in paying via gift. Participation in this system should not be required to transact business, but it should be used as a value added tool for the community.

Yes, I probably shouldn't have titled the thread the way I did. This is more what I was thinking of. Not subjective, anonymous ratings from customers, but a real guide to what projects are out there and the stage they are in and how reliable the artist is.

That would work for large runs of a single item - but probably doesn't work for painters who are doing one-offs.