700 Billion Buy out plan defeated.....

[bumblebee]

If the Dems thought it was such a great plan they could have passed it you know. They have the majority. Apparently enough Dems didn't like the bill as it was presented and shot it down.

Thats all fine and well. I'm just pointing out how McCain ws taking credit for this bill passing before it actually failed that is.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Is anyone here that close to retirement to be seriously worried for your own 401K? I'm only 31, so I have a good nother 25-30 years until I need to be looking at what the market is specifically doing. Theoretically, the $300 they just took out of today's paycheck should be getting better value for stuff than last month. The only thing I'm kinda worried about is I'm not sure whats exactly contained in the mutual funds I own. Could be some truly dead weight in there. Gotta trust the fund managers I suppose.

At my age the thing I need to mostly worry about is employment.

 

[lcummins]

Is anyone here that close to retirement to be seriously worried for your own 401K?..

I'm 48 (49 in Oct), so yes, I'm worried! I have much less time to recover if my 401K tanks...


...DOW is up 300 points already today...

 

[Mesa]

Me too. He had a chance to redeem himself, and he blew it. He could have advocated changing the laws that caused the problems, but he's just not that...sharp.

HE DID
This is probably the only thing in Bush's legacy that he didn't screw up.

https://www.newsmax.com/kessler/gse_financial_timeline/2008/09/22/133234.html

2007

July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.

August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)

December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying, "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)

2008
March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)

"[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)

"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

https://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-93581

September 11, 2003

The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.

The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt - is broken.

A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.

FEDERAL HOUSING ENTERPRISE REGULATORY REFORM ACT OF 2005

The United States Senate

May 25, 2006

Sen. John McCain [R-AZ]: Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae's regulator reported that the company's quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were "illusions deliberately and systematically created" by the company's senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac-known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs-and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO's report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO's report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

McCain said 'I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.'
Alas, thanks to the Democrat Party and the special interests of the left, both of these attempts to reform the banking system were still born.

 

[devilof76]

I wish I could be as optimistic as you and I know it is a socialistic thing to do but I think either the bail out goes through or we are screwed. I fear that if the banks continue tightening credit, millions of small business' who depend on short term loans for purchasing materials and what not will fail resulting in massive unemployment which in turn will lead to a depression. I am no expert on the economy, but this seems the way we are heading.

I see what you're saying. And I'm not entirely confident that doing nothing is the right idea either. I'm just not sure that these particular politicians should be the people deciding how to place the money where it belongs. I actually heard about 1.7 billion marked for electric car research.

But this is not a free market economy. It is very much mixed, and as I understand it, this came about on account of dislocation of normal market mechanisms, brought on by government interference. A 'mixed economy' solution may be appropriate to minimize the damage. However, unless the atmosphere that engendered the situation in the first place is not radically altered, no fix will have long term positive effects.

(Nationaliztion would be the worst thing they could do. )

This is what I mean by Bush missing his chance. He has definitely been trying to do the right thing by reigning in the FM's, but even though they had put out over a trillion in loans, they were not the sole culprit about the failures. They were definitely the pioneers, but once it became established that high risk could be packaged with low risk and sold, it took off like a rocket. The Fed constantly adjusting rates to compensate didn't help either. For Bush to truly redeem himself, he would have to eliminate the entire 'affordable housing' crusade, and find a way for rates to accurately reflect real worth. Short of abolishing the Federal Reserve, I don't know of any way to do that other than letting the entire economy recalibrate itself (which means leaving it the hell alone).

That will never happen, but if Bush had moved in that direction, he would have seriously impressed me. This legislation seems to be a move in the total opposite direction.

 

[Mesa]

A Bailout or Rescue Plan or whatever WILL pass, the sooner the better. But we should all be glad yesterday's failed. It put little ownership on those responsible for causing this mess. The revision will have more accountability placed on businesses rather than you and I the taxpayer.

 

[Mesa]

This is what I mean by Bush missing his chance. He has definitely been trying to do the right thing by reigning in the FM's, but even though they had put out over a trillion in loans, they were not the sole culprit about the failures. They were definitely the pioneers, but once it became established that high risk could be packaged with low risk and sold, it took off like a rocket. The Fed constantly adjusting rates to compensate didn't help either. For Bush to truly redeem himself, he would have to eliminate the entire 'affordable housing' crusade, and find a way for rates to accurately reflect real worth. Short of abolishing the Federal Reserve, I don't know of any way to do that other than letting the entire economy recalibrate itself (which means leaving it the hell alone).

That will never happen, but if Bush had moved in that direction, he would have seriously impressed me. This legislation seems to be a move in the total opposite direction.

Never have gotten through congress, democratic or republican. Who wants to be the person who supported reducing chance of low income americans to afford houses?

Hopefully the revised bailout addresses this problems and tigthens the financial restrictions necessary to qualify for a loan in order to prevent a recurrence in another 10-15 years.

 

[devilof76]

Never have gotten through congress, democratic or republican. Who wants to be the person who supported reducing chance of low income americans to afford houses?

I know. That's the problem.

Hopefully the revised bailout addresses this problems and tigthens the financial restrictions necessary to qualify for a loan in order to prevent a recurrence in another 10-15 years.

I am going to guess that the majority of the restrictions will be placed on lenders, seeing as the whole build up to this has been a chorus of blame for the people providing the money. There seems to be no end to the excuses for those who failed to repay it (the only reason why any of these companies have failed). It would be nice if there had been some way of knowing how much of the high-risk derivatives should never have been given. Was it obvious to the people buying and selling them that they were as specious as they were? Or were they too far away from that end of it? From everything I've seen, they didn't act as though they expected what they were doing would spell their end.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Affordable housing is a nice idea in concept, but it shouldn't be nationalized. I think something more regional and aimed at people that offer important services to certain areas, but don't make enough to live in those areas, deserve some help. But nationally, it loses focus and ends up helping people that don't offer important services, or offer services in areas that are overcrowded with same skilled people. IE, Chicago, Philly, Detroit, etc. People in those cities have no encouragement to LEAVE and find work if they get subsidized to stay. But there are a lot of areas around the country that can use people like teachers, farmers, manufacturers, retail people, bank tellers, etc that without help can't afford to live there.

 

[Bannister]

Noooooooooooooo I meant the Football Team!!! Banni I secretly love you and want you for another one of my wives!

 

[ProgMatinee]

I was watching Glenn Beck last night and he and the talking heads were speculation that a vast majority of Congress didn't read the legislation at all.

 

[Darklord Dave]

I was watching Glenn Beck last night and he and the talking heads were speculation that a vast majority of Congress didn't read the legislation at all.

Judging from the vote, I'm sure that's the case. And Paulson and Bernake did a horrible job explaining it to them during the hearings.

 

[Fubeca]

Mmmmmm Dow is up almost 400 points...Imagine that!

 

[Darklord Dave]

Mmmmmm Dow is up almost 400 points...Imagine that!

Until they come back on Thursday and vote again and defeat it again. Welcome to the rollercoaster.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Man...I think all of this is really reflected in the FS threads cropping up even!

 

[LChinoz]

Let's hope something can be worked out soon. This partisan back and forth is really getting old. It's about the country!

 

[Spartan Rex]

Obama: I Didn't Actually Talk To Any Skeptical House Members
Obama, yesterday:

"I was on the phone every day with Secretary Paulson and the congressional leaders, making sure that the principles that have ultimately been adopted were incorporated into the bill," Obama told CBS's Bob Schieffer, explaining, "I think, [that] is an indication of the degree to which, when it comes to protecting taxpayers, I was pushing very hard and involved in shaping those provisions."

The New York Times, today:

Aides to Mr. Obama said he had not directly reached out to try to sway any House Democrats who opposed the measure. But where Mr. McCain had accused Mr. Obama of taking a hands-off approach to the financial crisis, Democratic advisers said they believed that Mr. McCain now had a role in the legislation’s failure.

Why was Obama talking to the cabinet official and congressional leaders who were already on board than the rank-and-file of his own party who were skeptical? Why didn't he talk to the three Democrats from Chicago who opposed the bill? Why didn't he talk to the twelve Democrats on the banking committee who opposed the bill?

This is the persuasion equivalent of "voting present."

 

[LChinoz]

I'm not advocating for Obama and against McCain, just thought I'd give some answer to the whole "present votes" thing.

From Washington Post:

John McCain has missed 65% of the votes. Obama 47%. So Obama actually missed fewer votes than McCain. Just something to think about.

https://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/110/senate/vote-missers/

I'm not saying voting present is better than missing votes, but that there are always ways to spin these things.

 

[Spartan Rex]

I'm not advocating for Obama and against McCain, just thought I'd give some answer to the whole "present votes" thing.

From Washington Post:

John McCain has missed 65% of the votes. Obama 47%. So Obama actually missed fewer votes than McCain. Just something to think about.

https://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/110/senate/vote-missers/

I'm not saying voting present is better than missing votes, but that there are always ways to spin these things.

The jist of my post was his failure to lead when given an important opportunity...no change from politics as usual.

 

[LChinoz]

The jist of my post was his failure to lead when given an important opportunity...no change from politics as usual.

Fair enough.