Families travel to beach resorts to have fun on vacation. There's sand, chairs, and families with kids playing on these beaches. Not to mention, a whole lot of $$$$ are being spent at these beach resorts by the families staying there. Sorry, but a no swimming sign doesn't cut it in my book. No one managing/owning these resorts should just assume that guests staying there know that there are gators in or around the beach and a no swimming sign doesn't adequately inform any guests that their child can be snatched by a gator on the beach/shore. I have to wonder if the lack of gator signs is intentional. After all, who in their right mind would knowingly book a trip for their family to a beach resort that has gators in it? Knowing what I know now, I'll never take my family to one of these resorts. They are obviously not safe.
Alligator grabs two year old at Disney World
- Thread starter DinoDB1975
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ali032373
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What i think is interesting is that at last count they killed 5 alligators in one day on the property. How many could they find in a week? At a minimum the indirect admission is that there were at least 5 gators on disneyland property on a random day.
i have to believe ppl are asking why the hell didnt you tell us gators are on the property.
i have to believe ppl are asking why the hell didnt you tell us gators are on the property.
Might as well not go to most of the southern states then
Collectorcol
Super Freak
Not to let your kids play on a, man made, beach next to Alligator infested water.
Collectorcol
Super Freak
devilof76
Super Freak
Disney did monitor for gators, according to the WSJ article. Actually, they shopped the work out to Florida Fish and Game. No attacks in 45 years.
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This is an interesting look at the legal responsibilities of a resort with respect to wild animals.
https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/opinions/hotels-may-avoid-liability-alligator-attack-danny-cevallos/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/opinions/hotels-may-avoid-liability-alligator-attack-danny-cevallos/index.html
ali032373
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The other thing thats surprising is that Disney hasnt said a word on this. No statement, apology, explanation. Nothing. Least not that i read.
Typically tou want to get out ahead of these things because your silence allows others to write your story for you. I would hold a press conference and apologize deeply. Get the CEO to do it. Not a lower level person. And be genuinely contrite as you should be. Talk about what youre doing so thhis never happens again. Talk about who got fired for choosing this sign. Talk about setting up a college fund or day care center in the kid's town. And then do all those things.
The sooner this is settled (dollar wise) the sooner this is off the front page. This is a PR disaster for them and the sooner it goes away the sooner it will be out of the minds of families. The WORST thing that can happn for Disney is that this is goes to a verdict that splashes across the headlines, And the father tells the story in open court about the unique anguish and torment he'll live with for the rest of his life.
Typically tou want to get out ahead of these things because your silence allows others to write your story for you. I would hold a press conference and apologize deeply. Get the CEO to do it. Not a lower level person. And be genuinely contrite as you should be. Talk about what youre doing so thhis never happens again. Talk about who got fired for choosing this sign. Talk about setting up a college fund or day care center in the kid's town. And then do all those things.
The sooner this is settled (dollar wise) the sooner this is off the front page. This is a PR disaster for them and the sooner it goes away the sooner it will be out of the minds of families. The WORST thing that can happn for Disney is that this is goes to a verdict that splashes across the headlines, And the father tells the story in open court about the unique anguish and torment he'll live with for the rest of his life.
devilof76
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They spoke to the parents. Who else's business is it at this point? Speaking to appease devalues the sincerity of their response.
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They put out a statement yesterday.
"George A. Kalogridis offered the below statement regarding the tragic accident that occurred yesterday at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa:
“There are no words to convey the profound sorrow we feel for the family and their unimaginable loss. We are devastated and heartbroken by this tragic accident and are doing what we can to help them during this difficult time.
On behalf of everyone at Disney, we offer them our deepest sympathy.”
George A. Kalogridis,
President, Walt Disney World Resort"
Bob Iger also called the family.
"George A. Kalogridis offered the below statement regarding the tragic accident that occurred yesterday at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa:
“There are no words to convey the profound sorrow we feel for the family and their unimaginable loss. We are devastated and heartbroken by this tragic accident and are doing what we can to help them during this difficult time.
On behalf of everyone at Disney, we offer them our deepest sympathy.”
George A. Kalogridis,
President, Walt Disney World Resort"
Bob Iger also called the family.
Wait there are alligators in FL waters? I would assume any open body of water in FL would have gators if their is any other wildlife in the area. So yah unless it's a pool or the ocean I am going to assume alligators are there. They show up at golf courses in man made lakes why would they not show up at Disneyworld?
Ours, we must know.
Collectorcol
Super Freak
Not a good idea to encourage families to relax next to those areas then.
Can't imagine what that family went/are going through.
To see your child literally snatched out of your hand must be unbearable.
Can't imagine what that family went/are going through.
To see your child literally snatched out of your hand must be unbearable.
But the gator ran up on the beach and snatched the kid right? Or was the kid in the water? I am not saying it's not tragic but wildlife is wild for a reason. The idea that their should be fences is crazy. Should their be signs maybe. I have never stayed there but is there a note about this in the book in the room? I know a lot of the time there is info like that in the book. Take for example a beach resort where their is sharp coral, they don't have a sign saying that but it's in the book in the room in multiple languages. Same with saying not to touch or collect shells. They don't say hey there is this thing called a cone shell and it can kill you.
ali032373
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I suppose they could just keep to themselves. But for disney the much better choice is to show the world what youre doing so this never happens again. I guess from disney's perspective it's the world's business if you want to keep families coming. You dont think ppl are home right now rethinking that family vacation? Maybe the Grand Canyon is getting a second look. So Disney has to SHOW the world that its safer than ever. And that means DOING things that ppl can see: showing the new signs, new patrol boats, more consumer education. Trust has been broken. Seaworld had to change its policies and mount an ad campaign after the orca scandal. Wouldnt be surprised if you saw tthe same thing here.
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Maybe they want to take more than 2 days to prepare a change in operations.
Bro, they were on a man made lake at a beach resort near Disney world. A beach resort brings to mind sun, fun, lounging, and other beach activities. I'm sure that's what most parents and guests are thinking when they book a room at these resorts. Disney is a HUGE corp designed at taking money and entertaining kids. I don't think it's a stretch that most parents that take their kids to these resorts think they are safe unless they live in the south and know about the dangers of gators. There should be signs up that warn unaware families about gators. I have to believe that these signs aren't up simply because Disney doesn't want to freak out the parents that are spending massive $$$ staying at these resorts. As for taking my family to the South...we've been to Florida on a few occasions but have stayed strictly near salt water beaches. Never saw a gator any of the times we were there. We haven't, nor will we go anywhere near a body of fresh water in Florida. Luckily, my kids have no love for the mouse or anything else Disney related with the exception of Marvel. So Disney World/Land has no appeal to them and I won't be taking them there any time soon.
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DinoDB1975
Super Freak
Kid was wading in the water about a foot from the shore, according to reports.
I started this thread because as a parent, I was horrified by the news (and let's face it, some one else would have started it as well). There are many different viewpoints being posted and I can see each of them.
On one hand it was a man made lake and there hasn't been an alligator attack there in almost half a century. On the other hand, after this tragic event the authorities found five alligators in the surrounding area?
I can't blame the family. They came from Nebraska for a vacation. I understand that Florida has an abundance of wildlife, and if they had decided to vacation in the Everglades instead of Orlando, I may be inclined to believe they should have been more careful. But they had no reason to even consider a gator attack.
As a child, I read voraciously about reptiles and dinosaurs (due to my name). And maybe one of our Australian members can chime in, but I believe Australians know NOT to go near any body of water after dark. Australia is home to salt water crocodiles, the largest of their kind, and nocturnal hunters. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe alligators hunt at night as well. But again, a family from Nebraska coming to Disney for a summer vacation would have no reason to worry about this.
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DinoDB1975
Super Freak
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...no-name:homepage/story&utm_term=.5b07bb778761
Some excerpts:
“There isn’t a waterway in Florida that doesn’t have an alligator in it,” said Kenneth Krysko, herpetology collections manager at the Florida Museum of Natural History and an expert on the state’s alligators and crocodiles.
The mating season, which Krysko said just ended, is when most attacks occur. Big males become very territorial, and smaller males like the one suspected of taking the 2-year-old scatter to smaller bodies of water to feed. The hour of the attack, about 9 p.m., is an optimal time for feeding. “Yes, that is the time of day that alligators are coming out and feeding. People are at the surface, splashing around. It’s just so sad because you have a 2-year-old, which is very small. A four-to-six-foot alligator can view that as prey. An animal would have no problem getting such a child.”
"Krysko wondered whether the alligator in Tuesday’s attack, unlike most, had no fear of humans. He suspects that visiting tourists might have been feeding it. “That’s the big problem. It loses its natural fear of humans when that happens. It goes up to humans, sees a child, and that’s the first thing it takes. That’s the sole reason why it’s illegal to feed an alligator in the wild.”
Apparently, the fact that the beach was on a man made lake makes no difference.
"Frank Mazzotti, a professor of wildlife ecology at University of Florida, said the fact that the Disney lagoon was man-made matters little. Alligators pop up constantly in man-made canals, golf course lakes and retention ponds that dot the state. “It’s really impossible to keep them out of any body of water,” Mazzotti said."
"But who is at fault will likely become a central question after the initial shock of the tragedy begins to fade.
Alan Sykes, a professor at Stanford Law School, said the Walt Disney Co. could be held liable for the incident if there is proof of negligence.
“The hotel owes a duty of care to its customers to take reasonable measures to make the premises safe,” said Sykes, who stressed that he didn’t know all the details about the incident in Orlando. “That would include if there are hidden hazards in a lagoon on the hotel property.”
He said a key question would be whether the resort had prior knowledge of alligators in the water near the hotel and what it had done to mitigate that issue, or at least adequately warn tourists of the potential dangers. “A simple ‘no swimming’ sign might be deemed insufficient,” he said. “If it gets litigated, it’s most likely a case about reasonable warning.”
Whatever the particulars, Sykes said the case is almost certain to attract the attention of lawyers seeking to sue the resort.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if Disney ends up settling this, even if they have some decent legal argument,” he said. “It’s a black eye on the Disney resort.”
Matt Morgan, an Orlando attorney who has litigated numerous negligence cases against Florida theme parks, agreed that any case would turn on a couple central questions. “What did Disney know about the presence of alligators and when did they know it? What protections were in place for these visitors?” he said. “If Disney knew and did not take steps to warn visitors, they could be liable.”
Some excerpts:
“There isn’t a waterway in Florida that doesn’t have an alligator in it,” said Kenneth Krysko, herpetology collections manager at the Florida Museum of Natural History and an expert on the state’s alligators and crocodiles.
The mating season, which Krysko said just ended, is when most attacks occur. Big males become very territorial, and smaller males like the one suspected of taking the 2-year-old scatter to smaller bodies of water to feed. The hour of the attack, about 9 p.m., is an optimal time for feeding. “Yes, that is the time of day that alligators are coming out and feeding. People are at the surface, splashing around. It’s just so sad because you have a 2-year-old, which is very small. A four-to-six-foot alligator can view that as prey. An animal would have no problem getting such a child.”
"Krysko wondered whether the alligator in Tuesday’s attack, unlike most, had no fear of humans. He suspects that visiting tourists might have been feeding it. “That’s the big problem. It loses its natural fear of humans when that happens. It goes up to humans, sees a child, and that’s the first thing it takes. That’s the sole reason why it’s illegal to feed an alligator in the wild.”
Apparently, the fact that the beach was on a man made lake makes no difference.
"Frank Mazzotti, a professor of wildlife ecology at University of Florida, said the fact that the Disney lagoon was man-made matters little. Alligators pop up constantly in man-made canals, golf course lakes and retention ponds that dot the state. “It’s really impossible to keep them out of any body of water,” Mazzotti said."
"But who is at fault will likely become a central question after the initial shock of the tragedy begins to fade.
Alan Sykes, a professor at Stanford Law School, said the Walt Disney Co. could be held liable for the incident if there is proof of negligence.
“The hotel owes a duty of care to its customers to take reasonable measures to make the premises safe,” said Sykes, who stressed that he didn’t know all the details about the incident in Orlando. “That would include if there are hidden hazards in a lagoon on the hotel property.”
He said a key question would be whether the resort had prior knowledge of alligators in the water near the hotel and what it had done to mitigate that issue, or at least adequately warn tourists of the potential dangers. “A simple ‘no swimming’ sign might be deemed insufficient,” he said. “If it gets litigated, it’s most likely a case about reasonable warning.”
Whatever the particulars, Sykes said the case is almost certain to attract the attention of lawyers seeking to sue the resort.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if Disney ends up settling this, even if they have some decent legal argument,” he said. “It’s a black eye on the Disney resort.”
Matt Morgan, an Orlando attorney who has litigated numerous negligence cases against Florida theme parks, agreed that any case would turn on a couple central questions. “What did Disney know about the presence of alligators and when did they know it? What protections were in place for these visitors?” he said. “If Disney knew and did not take steps to warn visitors, they could be liable.”
devilof76
Super Freak
They turn up everywhere. I was drunk one night while visiting DW, and I went for a walk (a habit of mine when I drink). There was not a single moment in my stumbling that I was not acutely aware of the possibility of running into one.
mfoga said:Ours, we must know.
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