Asmus Toys : Legolas (wip thread)

[Wor-Gar]

what saddens me is that we have LOTR figures once in 10-15 years, and they have unpredictable quality...

This is the truth of it: people want better product for their money.

But I don't see any company giving people consistently what they want, regardless of price. Figures and likenesses are all over the place from every company. No more than Asmus, who for example nails Saruman but then drops the ball on Sam. They, like Sideshow, have a real problem with human likeness. We've known this for a long time. On occasion we get Saruman and Thranduil -- though some even complain about those... much like people complain about HT headsculpts.

I really hate the 'don't like it, don't buy it' retort, but it seems to be the only reasonable response here anymore.

 

[PG1973]

Also included in the Asmus price tag are some really nice bases that are pretty solid. No other company does that. TheeZ doesn't even include one.

 

[YoNoSe]

Even the "home run" figures by any company still have vocal "looks like Johnny Depp" people. I can relate to wanting "HT Level" (or what that is supposed to mean) figures from a beloved property but this is the level company that wants to do a property with this level 1/6 market appeal. I'm okay with that.

I agree with "don't like it don't buy it" - at the end of the day it's an expensive toy. I always hope people are being hyperbolic when they rage about their sadness, disappointment and anger over these things.

 

[FlyAndFight]

Maybe asking for the headsculpt in the Gandalf thread wouldn't be bashing but when it's repeated in the Legolas thread it just seems unnecessary.

I understand what you are saying but the conversation just happened to come up in the Legolas thread. Happens all of the time in other specific figure threads. They get sidetracked for a while and eventually come back to the specific figure.

 

[FlyAndFight]

I know a lot of ppl use that phrase but at this point I don't think there is a such thing as "Hot Toys level pricing." I think it's just what 1/6 figure pricing is nowadays. It's what Sideshow is charging now as well as Star Ace with recent new releases like Selene, Leonidas, and Katniss. Even some unofficial figures are in the lower $200s. BCS just upped their prices with the new Bond figures and IMO BCS Doctor Who and Sherlock sculpt and paint isn't near what Asmus has delivered recently. But this is where 1/6 is right now. And it's only going to get more expensive as we've seen happen time and time again.

Good point, Gipetto. I specifically named Hot Toys as the bar, as they are the top 1/6 figure company in regards to sculpts, paint apps, accessories and even packaging. Their pricing does fluctuate depending on the complexity of the figure. People like to bash the top guy but have to admit that they are innovators in our hobby.

There is no way that anyone can honestly compare any of the other manufacturers to Hot Toys and say they are equal in product quality. Some may come close with a figure, here and there, but not in the manner that Hot Toys does. Hence my reference regarding "Hot Toys level of pricing". I expect at least that when shelling out these dollar amounts.

I'm fairly certain that if Hot Toys were to announce that they had the LOTR figure license, even the Hot Toys scoffers would quietly celebrate... (although there would be a fair chance of having a major character not released!...)

 

[Gipetto0812]

I don't know. I think you can't charge what the King of the Hill is charging if you aren't offering what the KotH is offering. One of two things will happen 1. The others like Star Ace, SSCs and BCS will end up choking on unbought stock or 2. The king, Hot Toys, will say hey those guys are charging what we are charging and getting it and their product doesn't compare to ours. Let's charge more!

Either scenario will tilt the system eventually and that's bad for everybody.

You're kind of proving my point though. Every time HT upps their prices, other companies tend to follow. HT sets the standard across the bored be it sculpt, paint, packaging and even price which is why I'm saying that current prices is just what 1/6 costs right now, b/c HT set that standard. Except, when HT upped their prices other companies most likely said "Hey look what ppl are willing to pay for a 1/6 figure, we can charge that too!" It's a never ending cycle. I'm also pretty sure custom figures play a role in that as well. While they may not be vocally active I think many companies lurk the boards and see ppl shelling out thousands of dollars on custom figures that spending $200-$250 or even $300-$350 doesn't seem so bad in comparison. I remember back when it was tough for me to shell out $40 for an SS EX 1/6 Aragorn I got off eBay Sideshow is pricing me out on PFs right now. I can't afford their now standard $500+ price tags. Pretty soon1/6 will get that way too.

I just hope we can get Legolas AND Gimli before this ride is over.

I totally agree. Like most, I've wanted a completed Fellowship and owned all the SS LOTR figures, still own 3 PFs and now the Asmus figs. The ones that have kept exciting me are ones that we haven't seen before so even though I want a badass Legolas, I'd really love to finally see Gimli. Wish SS would've made a PF of him.

This is the truth of it: people want better product for their money.

But I don't see any company giving people consistently what they want, regardless of price. Figures and likenesses are all over the place from every company.

Very true. even HT while consistently very nice detailed sculpts, their paint and/or likeness isn't always 100%. And while I'm not a complete stickler for 100% accuracy ( I notice it but don't let it bother me), HT will miss some things on costumes or even cheapen out on accessories at times. Arkham Joker is an easy and recent example of minimal accessories included for a character that could've came with many.

Good point, Gipetto. I specifically named Hot Toys as the bar, as they are the top 1/6 figure company in regards to sculpts, paint apps, accessories and even packaging. Their pricing does fluctuate depending on the complexity of the figure. People like to bash the top guy but have to admit that they are innovators in our hobby.

There is no way that anyone can honestly compare any of the other manufacturers to Hot Toys and say they are equal in product quality. Some may come close with a figure, here and there, but not in the manner that Hot Toys does. Hence my reference regarding "Hot Toys level of pricing". I expect at least that when shelling out these dollar amounts.

I'm fairly certain that if Hot Toys were to announce that they had the LOTR figure license, even the Hot Toys scoffers would quietly celebrate... (although there would be a fair chance of having a major character not released!...)

I totally agree with you Like mentioned above though, I think it's a cycle that both HT and other companies get into and the ones that suffer in terms of $$$ is us but at other times, we get awesome quality.

 

[Thainitty]

@denrep lillium yeah dude, of course you have a right to be disappointed/upset, it sucks when people don't follow through with what they say. @gipetto you hit the nail on the head as far as pricing goes, it's 1/6 pricing across the board not just "hot toys pricing". And @wor gar I agree that asmus is actually one of the more reasonably priced 1/6 companies especially with a licensed property and actor likenesses. @flyandfight yes I totally get that discussions get side tracked, it's hard to stay on topic 100% just seems when it comes to asmus the discussion gets derailed quickly.

I'm happy to have these LOTR releases that are, in my eyes, superior to the old sideshow releases. Like someone said LOTR figures are few and far between and I don't see too many companies clamoring to make new LOTR figures in the near future or maybe ever. Anywho, really hope we get some new legolas information soon and gimli too.....at the least those two need to be made

 

[Lee in MI]

You're kind of proving my point though. Every time HT upps their prices, other companies tend to follow. HT sets the standard across the bored be it sculpt, paint, packaging and even price which is why I'm saying that current prices is just what 1/6 costs right now, b/c HT set that standard. Except, when HT upped their prices other companies most likely said "Hey look what ppl are willing to pay for a 1/6 figure, we can charge that too!" It's a never ending cycle. I'm also pretty sure custom figures play a role in that as well. While they may not be vocally active I think many companies lurk the boards and see ppl shelling out thousands of dollars on custom figures that spending $200-$250 or even $300-$350 doesn't seem so bad in comparison. I remember back when it was tough for me to shell out $40 for an SS EX 1/6 Aragorn I got off eBay Sideshow is pricing me out on PFs right now. I can't afford their now standard $500+ price tags. Pretty soon1/6 will get that way too. .

Well, not really. You sound like this is an acceptable causality...I disagree. You stated this is just the price of 1/6th. Well, yes. Factually that's correct. But in the context of the discussion, guys complaining that they aren't getting their money's worth or being made promises that aren't kept, that not what's happening. Guys aren't just accepting "it's just the price of 1/6th now". They are voicing their disappointment with the price v quality. That's the first step. Next step is they start cherry picking the line. After that, they may drop it altogether.

Actually, I was really surprised to know some of the die hard LOTR fans (at least in my mind) here did not get all the Asmus offerings...particularly the main characters like Frodo. Collector's have been known to lose interest in lines when they can't accept the execution/production quality of a main character or miss out on one. Happened to Gentle Giant with their SW bust line. It was friggin fire hot until they started offering impossible to obtain exclusives. Took the wind right out the sails.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Actually, I was really surprised to know some of the die hard LOTR fans (at least in my mind) here did not get all the Asmus offerings...particularly the main characters like Frodo. Collector's have been known to lose interest in lines when they can't accept the execution/production quality of a main character or miss out on one. Happened to Gentle Giant with their SW bust line. It was friggin fire hot until they started offering impossible to obtain exclusives. Took the wind right out the sails.

I'm certain Asmus knows the longevity of this line... but its likely more to do with when the license expires at this point. If things aren't selling based on Asmus' limitations, they will not renew the license.

And then no one will have anything further to worry about.


That's what I meant when I said I hope we get a Legolas and Gimli at least before this all ends.

 

[Gipetto0812]

Well, not really. You sound like this is an acceptable causality...I disagree. You stated this is just the price of 1/6th. Well, yes. Factually that's correct.

That's literally all I was pointing out. I'm not saying it's acceptable all I'm saying is that is what's happening. I have not been trying to agree or disagree with anyone as I was pointing out what is or seems to be what's happening in regards to pricing.

I totally understand that the quality isn't always there even with the price hikes and that causes some lines to eventually fail, but I wasn't saying that it's acceptable. That wasn't the point. My point was just stating that this is what pricing is nowadays regardless of quality matching that of the top dog. Does that kinda suck? sure but prices don't seem to be going down so it really is buy or don't buy. not much else you can do being vocal about it tends to just lead to companies staying away from answering fans like Asmus has done and others before them. Sideshow rarely comes on the boards like they used to b/c like most cases, it gets the company in trouble or in a bind when something an employee mentions doesn't end up happening.

 

[Travis Baumann]

ThreeZero has hit the $200 mark too with Jamie Lannister, The Hound is just under and Dany was pretty much at that point as well. I actually think Jamie was worth it though, best figure of the line so far and the Proto's for the other two are just sick, hope they nail them.

Star Ace is charging way to much for their last few figures that have been a dramatic step down from all the good will they generated with the HP property, they need to check themselves quick. Get back to the quality Selene and Katniss should be and they wont have a problem getting people to pay the $200 range

Sideshow is just flat-out out of their minds charging what they are for their bare-bones inferior products.

Hot Toys are expensive but generally you get a good amount of excellent accessories and top notch tailoring but even though they have good paint apps, they don't always nail the likeness as much as everyone likes to say they do.

I don't own any Blitzway and so far no intention to as their product lines are not for me.

Asmus have steadily climbed in price but Thandruil, Saruman, to a less extent Gandalf the Grey, and to a much greater extend Grishnak have been worth while purchases where I am happy with the money spent.

As Wor-Gar said, that Fury Road Max was an amazing offering and Three Zero's latest female character from The Wall is incredible proto for $168. There are some deals out there but the current standard IS around $200 even for sh!#ty offerings.

 

[Travis Baumann]

Actually, I was really surprised to know some of the die hard LOTR fans (at least in my mind) here did not get all the Asmus offerings...particularly the main characters like Frodo. Collector's have been known to lose interest in lines when they can't accept the execution/production quality of a main character or miss out on one. Happened to Gentle Giant with their SW bust line. It was friggin fire hot until they started offering impossible to obtain exclusives. Took the wind right out the sails.

Yeah, it sucks. Pretty much sums up where I am at on this line. I cannot bring myself to pick up the Hobbits. Just not good enough. I skipped Aragorn too but luckily nabbed the other one that came out which I really like. Now that I have already broken the Fellowship, it will be much easier to pass on any of the remainder that I feel are not up to the level they should be.

I am such a diehard Tolkien fan though that any more Elves, Orcs, Dwarves, or any other denizens of Middle Earth that they produce on a level of Grishank/Thranduil will be mine.

On a side note, they are probably tied up with trying to pump out Hateful Eight which is something I have zero interest in. Their sub-faction is also busy doing unlicensed Dredd's and John Connors so we may have a gap here until the next announcement.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Can't blame them for wanting to expand beyond LOTR... which has never been a successful line. Just look at the edition sizes they are dealing with here. No way they can grow with only 500 figure editions on major characters.

Personally I think Hateful Eight was a bad call and likely won't pan out for them... but its probably very hard to get licenses that aren't gobbled up by HT.

 

[FlyAndFight]

Lately, there is just too much competition for collectors' dollars and the 1/6 scale figure hobby has just gotten crazy expensive.

 

[DioramaMaker]

Can't blame them for wanting to expand beyond LOTR... which has never been a successful line. Just look at the edition sizes they are dealing with here. No way they can grow with only 500 figure editions on major characters.

Personally I think Hateful Eight was a bad call and likely won't pan out for them... but its probably very hard to get licenses that aren't gobbled up by HT.

It's really strange - it's like collectors were ToyBiz'd out, more or less. Once that line died, and dang if it didn't limp and crawl its way passed that finish line for a crazy amount of time, LOTR merch was forever cursed.

 

[denrep-lilium]

Give me a quality product and I will pay, stop modifying perfect sculpts and I will buy. It is not about competition. Blitzway Tyler is expensive but sells out fast. It is about quality, and that is why we want to buy more expensive figure that we admire rather than two inferior ones.

 

[Wor-Gar]

If customers continue to demand the same quality in say Greedo (which no matter how great it is will only sell so many units) as they do Darth Vader (which will always sell), then as quality improves and price rises, you will simply have multiple Vaders and no secondary characters.

That is already happening.

This equates to: fewer characters made, and tons of repeats. Then what happens? People tire of multiple Vaders. Sales drop on even the most popular iconic characters. And the prices must go up as fewer units are made. Which results in a smaller pool of characters that get the green-light in the first place. Eventually a company is only making Vader, Iron Man and core Avengers.... does that sound familiar?

 

[FlyAndFight]

Higher quality figures are the here and now. There's no reason to take a step back and offer lesser quality products, regardless of units made. (I'm assuming that "quality" refers to all-around figure development (head sculpt, paint apps, tailoring, accessories, etc...) Doing so would only sabotage sales and hurt the company's image. (Sound familiar, SS?...)

What some manufacturers apparently haven't figured out yet is that certain characters will help sales of the entire line. Hot Toys is notorious for incomplete lines, frustrating the collectors of those lines.

I agree with denrep-lilium. The consumer is always looking for the next level of realism and willing to pay the price, if reasonable. Heck, I would never have guessed that a significant number of people would drop $150.00 dollars for a simple 1/6th scaled Princess Leia dress (sight unseen, no less) and yet it happened... (I recently paid a little more than that for the Jnix Han Solo head sculpt.)

As far as "higher end" LOTR figures are concerned, Asmus are the only game in town (aside from the previous Sideshow releases). I'm not sure what the sales numbers are for each of the figures, but I'm sure they would be significantly higher if just the head sculpts were better sculpted and painted. Personally, that's what has kept me away from this line. I do remember reading a number of posts stating that these figures would require some "customizing" and work to get them at their best. While I do "customize" some figures from time to time, I don't wish to do so for every release, especially after paying "Hot Toys prices".

I think that consumers weighing the "quality to value" quotient is to be expected by the manufacturers.

 

[Wor-Gar]

The buyers pool dries up the higher prices go. Which will eventually dry up the expanse of choices being made. But there's always going to be a 'market' though.



At one time, there was a market for 15,000 Bespin Hans at $55

Now there's a market for 5,000 Bespin Hans at $235

I'm sure there's a market for a $450 Bespin Han... but the edition size would be closer to 1,000.



Though my numbers aren't exact, a company might see roughly the same profit margin in all those cases.

If they have trouble selling two thousand Zuckuss' at $240 (and I doubt they will sell out), then they certainly wouldn't find a market of 1,000 people willing to spend $450+ for him.


Again, I'm not saying anything new -- we're already complaining about too many repeat characters and trooper variants coming out of HT. The days of seeing things like Admiral Piett or Plo Koon are long gone at this price let alone seeing a Tusken Raider or Greedo.

The lack of choices will get exponentially worse as prices rise is my point.

 

[hoodonit00]

IMO the prices go up much more, and I'm talking as little as 50 bucks, the 1/6th scale market will begin a death spiral. I'm barely hanging in the hobby myself. It's not a question of affordability but of justification..