Avatar: The Way of Water

[Johnny Utah]

Saw it today. Absolutely amazing.

Never bet against Cameron!

 

[Misterbadguy]

Going to try and see it in HFR in the new year before it leaves cinemas, I need to see that finale in 48fps. Sucks that it isn't supported by UHD blurays.

 

[choombaz]

Just going back to Brendan Cowell, I do not get the hate. He’s a really good actor, I he was terrific in Love My Way and Noise. And he does what he needs to do in AWOW, a broad caricatured baddie, this is not the film for a subtle nuanced villain. He’s the Giovanni Ribisi of this film.

 

[Khev]

Just going back to Brendan Cowell, I do not get the hate. He’s a really good actor, I he was terrific in Love My Way and Noise. And he does what he needs to do in AWOW, a broad caricatured baddie, this is not the film for a subtle nuanced villain. He’s the Giovanni Ribisi of this film.

I agree that he was a very fun mustache twirling villain to root against, though I wouldn't compare him to Ribisi. I think he was more in line with Quaritch's over the top villainy in the first film.

Though when you think about it the response to the Skipper's "villainy," and desire to see him meet a super dramatic end is really testament to the fact that Cameron did such a good job of making us sympathize with an alien whale! Because what did the Skipper really do that was deserving of death? He never wanted to provoke or engage the Na'vi and wanted no part in Quaritch's military campaign. When the you know what hit the fan he spent all of his energy trying to take out the whale (that had just murdered half a dozen humans) and not the Na'vi attackers. But like everyone else I was all "yeah, get him, get him" lol. Overall a really fun character.

 

[choombaz]

T1 has the advantage of being low-budget (so immediate forgiveness) yet it was inventive and created a great "new" monster. I can't say I love watching it now... but I appreciate it.

The Abyss likely holds up the best in some ways. It was always "two separate movies" to me slammed together -- Cameron wanted his underwater adventure paired with Close Encounters but it just didn't mesh onscreen. But everything without the "NTIs" was so masterly handled that its always the film I say Cameron peaked on (not financially, but craftsmanship-wise).

I am curious to what your idea of a great movie is Wor-Gar. T1 and Aliens for me are pinnacle JC, what he was able to do with scraps of money, great scripts and a ton of skilled ego never ceases to amaze me.

I love the first half of The Abyss. It’s perfection. But the second half is a bit of a mess. It’s like his divorce to Gale Ann Hurd, which was pretty much going on at the time, killed the efficient storyteller in him.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I am curious to what your idea of a great movie is Wor-Gar.

I did list a few earlier: Jaws, Star Wars, Alien, Raiders, Road Warrior, Predator, Die Hard, Jurassic Park, The Matrix, LOTR, Pirates 1 & 2, Winter Soldier and Infinity War to name a few...

And don't get me wrong, I still count Terminator, Aliens and T2 as Cameron's greatest works. It's just that I am not as enamored with Cameron as I used to be, say, 30 years ago. For me, those movies haven't held up as well as other ones from the same time.

 

[All Might]

I absolutely believe it's a generational thing. You say people are "still" buying T1 and T2 merchandise and you're right, those of us in our 40's and older who have been purchasing movie tie-in figures since the SW Kenner days. We just upgraded to high end Hot Toys and expensive statues as our incomes allowed.

But kids today? It's pretty well known that they don't desire toys for the movies they love like we did back in the day and therefore won't have any desire to "upgrade" their collections as they get older like us. So while I agree that kids today probably won't grow up to buy $1000 dollar Avatar statues I believe that that's just because they won't be caring about any such memorabilia for any movie when they're older.

Time will tell obviously.

I don’t think that matters. I think the point is that nobody is making Avatar merch after 10 years where as people are still making Terminator merch what 30-40 years? That is because Avatar merch doesn’t sell and nobody cares about it like that. Sideshow was giving away the Avatar Hot Toy for free after a while.

It isn’t a generational thing either. We can look at the MCU to disprove that. All ages are collecting things from the MCU, kids who grew up with it to adults who watched it from Iron Man to Endgame.

What about 40 year olds who love Avatar and want to spend? What about the teens who saw Avatar 10 years ago and now young adults who want to spend? Where is the merch?

That is what I mean by lasting pop culture relevance. It simply doesn’t have it.

I agree that a lot of kids aren’t buying figures, but it has become socially acceptable to do so, so many kids and “kidults” (the demeaning term MSM have given to those 12 and up who buy toys) are buying a lot still. There are dozens of franchises that are still selling toys and high end collectibles without issue, with a lot of demand, and how one of highest box office movies of all time doesn’t speaks to it more than trying to call the hobby “generational” which really just ignores the problem with the Avatar franchise, its lack of lasting relevance and worth in people.

 

[Mandible]

Okay your take on AWOW is making more and more sense to me now. I disagree of course but I believe I see where you're coming from.

And Titanic is getting a theatrical re-release in February just as an FYI in case you wanted to wait and revisit it that way.

I just have to say how amazing this comment is. There's still (seemly tiny) corners of the world where you can disagree about something and still be civil, and/or, friends, and just get on with it.

The world needs more of this.

 

[JacktheRipper]

I don't have a whole lot to add this conversation. Avatar did nothing for me. I have no plans to see any subsequent movies. I have enjoyed reading the conversations in this thread. Disagreement does make for good conversation. Being able to understand others' perspectives whether you agree or disagree is discussion that leads to tolerance.

 

[Otomofan]

Avatar 1 was 2h and 42m

I don't know a single famous movie quote line from it

Avatar way of water is 3h 42m

Any movie quote line that will be cemented in history or time?

"Its mini me" is know by more people that a 3 billion dollar 2 part film

Avatar 1...."I see you." Didn't exactly catch on.

Whereas you get one episode of Mandalorian and dweebs all over the world couldn't get "This is the way." tatted on their bodies fast enough.

Avatar 2....."Hey bro....easy bro.....come on bro."

 

[ironwez20]

When I was young at like 18 I loved the first movie. I wanted the hot toys. I loved neytiri. I wanted more from the world. I couldn’t wait for the second movie. People here were hit and miss on it. A lot of people crapped on it. I remember they said it wasn’t “original” . I remember that crappy movie inception came out and people exclaimed how original it was.

Now as an adult I moved on and see the movie as meh. I don’t think it will have a huge impact . It’ll just be that movie. He failed to strike the iron while it was hot. Everyone who loved it back then are grown. I don’t see it being a cultural phenomenon a couple years from now.

Now back in 2009 it was getting there. People were obsessed about it and it did huge numbers. It fizzled out

 

[ironwez20]

Avatar 1...."I see you." Didn't exactly catch on.

Whereas you get one episode of Mandalorian and dweebs all over the world couldn't get "This is the way." tatted on their bodies fast enough.

Avatar 2....."Hey bro....easy bro.....come on bro."

That’s Star Wars tho

 

[Misterbadguy]

Avatar 1...."I see you." Didn't exactly catch on.

Whereas you get one episode of Mandalorian and dweebs all over the world couldn't get "This is the way." tatted on their bodies fast enough.

Avatar 2....."Hey bro....easy bro.....come on bro."

Hearing the Na'vi call each other bro and cuz was jarring enough but seeing

Spoiler

one of the space whales ask Kate Winslet's character how her baby was, accompanied by papyrus subtitles, was thoroughly bizarre. Reminded me of the hyper intelligent talking dolphin in the second Mardock Scramble movie.

 

[Otomofan]

I remember that crappy movie inception came out and people exclaimed how original it was.

Inception truly sucked. Anyone that saw that and thought it was "original" has clearly never seen a motion picture before.

Take an amazing concept (which is no way original, but it still has a lot of potential) and just waste it.

Going in to other people's dreams and controlling stuff. The possibilities are LITERALLY INFINITE.

Cornered by bad guys? No problem...pull your pants down and your ***** can turn into a three-headed fire-breathing dragon that teleports you to Mars.

But no....instead we got.........the walls turn upside down. Like the Lionel Ritchie video from 1986.

That's the extent of auteur Christopher Nolan's imagination. The walls move around.

What a pile of ****.

 

[jye4ever]

I agree that he was a very fun mustache twirling villain to root against, though I wouldn't compare him to Ribisi. I think he was more in line with Quaritch's over the top villainy in the first film.

Though when you think about it the response to the Skipper's "villainy," and desire to see him meet a super dramatic end is really testament to the fact that Cameron did such a good job of making us sympathize with an alien whale! Because what did the Skipper really do that was deserving of death? He never wanted to provoke or engage the Na'vi and wanted no part in Quaritch's military campaign. When the you know what hit the fan he spent all of his energy trying to take out the whale (that had just murdered half a dozen humans) and not the Na'vi attackers. But like everyone else I was all "yeah, get him, get him" lol. Overall a really fun character.

Great post.

Such a weird focus on his contribution to the movie I thought he was so convincing that I actually believed him to be a whaler.

 

[choombaz]

I did list a few earlier: Jaws, Star Wars, Alien, Raiders, Road Warrior, Predator, Die Hard, Jurassic Park, The Matrix, LOTR, Pirates 1 & 2, Winter Soldier and Infinity War to name a few...

And don't get me wrong, I still count Terminator, Aliens and T2 as Cameron's greatest works. It's just that I am not as enamored with Cameron as I used to be, say, 30 years ago. For me, those movies haven't held up as well as other ones from the same time.

Sorry I forgot you did. I don’t agree about Aliens especially, maybe T2 a tiny bit, but I’m surprised you would put Pirates 1 and 2 in with those others, they are just simple entertainments to me and no more.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Sorry I forgot you did. I don’t agree about Aliens especially, maybe T2 a tiny bit, but I’m surprised you would put Pirates 1 and 2 in with those others, they are just simple entertainments to me and no more.

Funny enough, I hesitated about putting those in originally -- certainly they are not up to Raiders, Die Hard or LOTR levels, but few movies are. I still find the first two rewatchable at the moment as they move quite swiftly from one bit to the next, but I can see myself tiring of them in years to come. I really should remove Pirates 2 from that list -- its an incomplete movie as a part one... but then that would mean I'd have to eliminate Infinity War as well for the same reason, or ESB.

I agree with you about them being simple entertainment, but I see Aliens and T2 in the same way -- simple entertainment, no more.

 

[ironwez20]

Inception truly sucked. Anyone that saw that and thought it was "original" has clearly never seen a motion picture before.

Take an amazing concept (which is no way original, but it still has a lot of potential) and just waste it.

Going in to other people's dreams and controlling stuff. The possibilities are LITERALLY INFINITE.

Cornered by bad guys? No problem...pull your pants down and your ***** can turn into a three-headed fire-breathing dragon that teleports you to Mars.

But no....instead we got.........the walls turn upside down. Like the Lionel Ritchie video from 1986.

That's the extent of auteur Christopher Nolan's imagination. The walls move around.

What a pile of ****.

Truly was a stupid movie. Back then fanboys were still coming down from the dark knight craze so they thought everything he touched was golden. I remember thinking the movie sucked and was boring.
But again people were crying at the time that it was “original “ because the hatred for avatar had ballooned so big it made people accept crappy films as original.
Remember the hurt locker? Neither does anyone else. But people didn’t want avatar to win so it won by default .

 

[Khev]

I just have to say how amazing this comment is. There's still (seemly tiny) corners of the world where you can disagree about something and still be civil, and/or, friends, and just get on with it.

The world needs more of this.

Thanks man!

 

[Khev]

Inception truly sucked. Anyone that saw that and thought it was "original" has clearly never seen a motion picture before.

Take an amazing concept (which is no way original, but it still has a lot of potential) and just waste it.

Going in to other people's dreams and controlling stuff. The possibilities are LITERALLY INFINITE.

Cornered by bad guys? No problem...pull your pants down and your ***** can turn into a three-headed fire-breathing dragon that teleports you to Mars.

But no....instead we got.........the walls turn upside down. Like the Lionel Ritchie video from 1986.

That's the extent of auteur Christopher Nolan's imagination. The walls move around.

What a pile of ****.

Yeah to all who grew up on Dreamscape, Freddy Krueger, etc., Inception's imagination was definitely lacking.