Barbie

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If its Barbie that brings people back to the theater... I say so be it.

It was so FUN to be out in the streets on a warm summer night, light still in the sky at twilight, throngs of people having a ball, so eager to see a movie. A movie!

I won't see Barbie.... but I love that its bringing people back.





I just hope this doesn't usher in a long list of "toy" movies for the next 3-4 years. :slap

Judging by the fan reviews I think this will have a very steep and quick falloff - it seems to be very divisive?
 
This movie was very preachy and I understand that the usual dudes would hate this. This is pretty much calling them to come and bash the movie. But I had a good time. I love the funny line at the end. Found it hilarious that it all this build up led to that.
But yea I’m sure once drunker heard “ it’s hard being a woman” his eyes got bloodshot
 
I did years ago. And I liked him, but felt he became too preoccupied with the things he didn't like after a while. Even if some of his points are still salient, I don't see the need to constantly expose myself to negative reviews of bad movies I have no intention of seeing (I've checked out of the mainstream stuff, so SW and MCU are no-go's for me outside of things like Andor). It's just not healthy for me. Maybe he'd stop drinking if he made the same choice. :lol



Works for my point because '80s action movies are more male-centric than modern ones. I could also talk about how GI Joe movies make half-assed appeals to straight women with shirtless Channing Tatum scenes, but that's really not much of an olive branch. GI Joe is meant mostly for guys and that goes double for something like Arnold's Conan. Same applies to Barbie with women, but I think including Gosling was a far more diplomatic move across the gender aisle and it appears to be paying off. :lol

This movie is about autonomy for everyone, but with a greater focus on women because... Barbie. I mean come on, lads. Let's take a step back and remember what thread we're in.
Conan at least offered a strong female character..

And yes I got your point..

But does GI Joe movies spend their time bashing on woman? In all honesty did Conan??

Why take two steps back when making a female focused film.

I mean I can’t think of any films (maybe I just don’t watch them) where all woman were considered useless and annoying.

It seemed this movie had an idea of having a moral to the story message but it got lost in modern woke ideology. I mean the story from what I heard, breaks down like this

Barbie’s rule barbie world and Kens are dumb, annoying and useless. This is all good because it’s woman run world

Barbie has to go to real world to fix problem

Barbie is treated like like a dumb, annoying, useless person, while Ken is treated better. This is all bad because it’s a male run world. Some of the ways Barbie is treated might have worked if she returned to the real world in the 50’s but it’s supposed to be modern day right?? You know, where more woman graduate high school, go to college and get hired for more jobs out of college than their male counterparts.

Ken returns to Barbie land and tells fellow kens how bad they have it here and they could have more.

Barbie returns and sees that Barbie land is run by kens.


Here is where most stories would have a moral message about everyone should be treated equal and with respect but this film from what I understand goes back to barbie world and Kens are put back in their place…

1. I can’t believe I actually typed some of that **** I just did :lol

2. This movie could have had a social commentary but it does not seem to

3. I can’t imagine a movie doing the same story but with roles reversed.

4. I could be wrong about all of this as I did not see the film. If that is the case we can all go about our business.
 
This movie was very preachy and I understand that the usual dudes would hate this. This is pretty much calling them to come and bash the movie. But I had a good time. I love the funny line at the end. Found it hilarious that it all this build up led to that.
But yea I’m sure once drunker heard “ it’s hard being a woman” his eyes got bloodshot
I thought the trailer looked fun and I love the sets. Too bad that was not the movie.
 
I watch his reviews. I agree with some of the stuff he says like the snow white movie and overly preachy films that do t want to tell a story. My issue with him is that he caters to the incel crowd who don’t want women or people of color in movies at all. Like seriously it’s ok to have women in film and like I said the girl power stuff is nothing new.
Like I’m sure the captain marvel attacks will come soon. That movie wasn’t even all that bad. Anyway I’m gonna see this movie now. See y’all lol
Oh I don’t know.

He loves strong woman films that don’t bash on men at the same time. His issues seem to be when the film goes out of its way to belittle men to prop up the woman or to tear down OG male characters to build new female characters up. He also does not seem to care for race swapping for in bad movies where that seems to be the selling point. I mean did anybody complain about commissioner Gordon being Black in The Batman or Catwoman? Im guessing no cause the films were good.


Having said this I thought he and others of his ilk were too hard on the new Indy film. I did not think she was the usual “woman are so much better than men” type that you see in so many movies. She was not very likable but I thought she seemed purposefully written that way.

Indy was pretty harmless. Just not that great.
 
I was hoping for a simple goofy romcom that the initial trailers suggested this movie was going to be. Even if it’s still just a parody, I really thought it was going to be a bit more uniquely funny and wholesome instead of yet another satirical societal commentary.
Oh well, at least all the actors seemed to have fun.
 
I don't have 1.7 million Youtube followers who watch me go "Look at the competant woman in this film. What a bunch of horse ****!" But I come along and go..."bit of a ****" and suddenly I'm hate filled? Amazing how the guy with more online clout is the victim and little old me on a forum is this evil blue haired anarchist destroying our society. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!





Another perspective, and maybe to balance things out a little, is that certain "influencers" or "pundits" who have started to gain lots of traction and edging into brand name recognition are appealing to a new demographic that no longer trusts corporate media. I would not assess it as "alternative media", but maybe more in the vein of "independent media"

Lots of "influencers" have already essentially been bought by major corporations through intermediaries. Also major platforms are basically in lockstep, based on financial self interest, to certain viewpoints and agendas. The days of Siskel and Ebert where many reviewers were saying what they actually thought about movies without a ton of external pressure is probably over now. The industry saw the huge red flags when a reviewer for the film Philadelphia had to retract their initial review, apologize in public, then submit an entire new positive review. That was long ago, and pre Big Social Media engagement, but the fissures there were troubling.

There exists, right now, about five major players right now, at least on the surface level, that have basically swallowed up most of what the general public will tend to get with the "mainstream media" My observation and experience, and this doesn't need to apply to anyone else's belief structure here, is that anyone who has the attention of the masses, if there is a true lack of pure authenticity, i.e. if they are just gaming the "algorithms" to monetize their pathway, eventually that comes out. It's just too hard and too complicated to hold up that mask forever.

So I see two core things there

1) Whether or not anyone agrees with Critical Drinker or any other pundit or influencer, I don't think it's a bad thing that some "independents" are able to get their voice out there. Public discourse needs more than just canned tightly wound corporate media engagement. If you don't agree with the specific takes of sunglasses clad Will Jordan, then maybe you can see the benefit of his existence operating as an open defense of some important free speech principles.

2) Many of these current big tentpole type films are failing, in part IMHO, because the people who are making them are betraying some fundamental storytelling principles. I'm not talking the plot or the core themes, but some fairly mundane structural concerns. As the video above points out - “Write characters to tell a story not prove a point” That's my viewpoint, no one needs to agree with it.

So I thought Barbie was OK. I saw it several weeks back but just stayed out of this thread as I got some private pushback over a few things I said about Dial Of Destiny and weighed out the total carnage possible. I fell asleep during Oppenheimer, so since I missed some parts of it by being unconscious, that I stayed out of that thread too. I don't agree with 100 percent of what Critical Drinker had to say about Barbie, but I believe he has a few points that are worth further consideration.

Two things can be true at the same time. On one hand, there are people who hate everything and some people want to monetize nihilism with anything "popular" But on the other, there is close to no value in sweeping generalizations to wipe away all criticisms period. Just because we generally don't like someone, it doesn't mean they are always wrong. And when they might be wrong, it doesn't discount the reality that they might actually have a few critical points made that are worth introspection.

I respect your viewpoints and your opinion. You do you. I appreciate fundamental free speech on it's own merits. But I'll also say you are sweeping with a broad brush in the same way that you believe that someone like Will Jordan or other pundits are using for their own platforms. If you want more nuance, you have to give it first. No one is challenging your right to your own value system.

I wish you well in this hobby. I wish all people here in this community well in this hobby.
 
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I was hoping for a simple goofy romcom that the initial trailers suggested this movie was going to be. Even if it’s still just a parody, I really thought it was going to be a bit more uniquely funny and wholesome instead of yet another satirical societal commentary.
Oh well, at least all the actors seemed to have fun.
Yeah, me too. Am mildly annoyed I was buffalo'd by a trailer again.

Still, there were scenes that were probably worth the cost of the ticket, and the popcorn was awesome. Plus, the barbecue place is next door so I could pick up some *manly* slabs of ribs.:drink
 
Just gonna leave this here for those who haven't seen the movie.



This is a snippet of the musical number at the climax of Ken's story. After all the jokes and pokes at his and the other Kens' insecurities (which amount to making fun of the fact that he thinks playing guitar and being a film snob make him unconditionally attractive to women), we get this song. Once again, the end of Ken's story is Barbie encouraging him to define himself outside of his relationship to her and other women. To be enough for himself without her approval. He may have been created as an accessory to her, but he doesn't have to be.

It's undoubtedly a feminist movie, but to say it spends its runtime hating on men is such a stretch. Making fun of the narcissistic guy playing guitar cliche is no different from making jokes about women crying easily or liking shoes. To those who ask how many other movies do the reverse, the answer is: a lot of them.

It's not a matter of "men have been doing this to women forever, so two wrongs make a right." But if all those comments and cliches at women's expense are so innocent, why are men acting like the sky is falling down after seeing (or more likely hearing about) this movie? I didn't take offense to anything, although granted that's partly because I don't expect a guitar, a passion for cinema, and a six-pack to make me worth dating. The digs at stereotypical guy stuff are so surface level AND they're accompanied by plenty of stereotypical girl stuff thanks to the main character being the original stereotypical Barbie (she even refers to herself as such). Shouldn't we as men be able to laugh these jokes off the way women have been expected to laugh off their licks? Or are the offended guys out there thinner-skinned than they think?
 
Pretty much. Dude complained about the girl beating the predator in prey. It’s not like she overpowered the thing. She outsmarted it. Riply killed most of the aliens and was far more knowledgeable than any of the men in the alien films but I don’t hear any complaints on her. Yes I know some of these films can be extra preachy and cringe like the Star Wars sequels but for as long as I can remember “girl power” has always been a huge thing in media it’s just Twitter and the social network that make it seem like it’s new.
I wonder what people would say about the power puff girls if it came out today lol
Umm…. Critical Drinker liked Prey and admitted he was wrong on his assessment from the promotional material. He said it was surprisingly good and it was great she used her wits to defeat the Predator. Prey was a really really good film and totally a pleasant surprise.
 
Umm…. Critical Drinker liked Prey and admitted he was wrong on his assessment from the promotional material. He said it was surprisingly good and it was great she used her wits to defeat the Predator. Prey was a really really good film and totally a pleasant surprise.
He said that the girl shouldn’t be able to beat the predator. I watched the review.
 
Critical drinker is a moron
IMO he's often laugh out loud funny, and when not having a meltdown has some pretty insightful comments. Lately he's been on tear, seems like. He needs 1) another bottle of his favorite libation, 2) and a really bad movie that's universally panned to tear up. I could use the laughs.
 
It's not a matter of "men have been doing this to women forever, so two wrongs make a right." But if all those comments and cliches at women's expense are so innocent, why are men acting like the sky is falling down after seeing (or more likely hearing about) this movie? I didn't take offense to anything, although granted that's partly because I don't expect a guitar, a passion for cinema, and a six-pack to make me worth dating. The digs at stereotypical guy stuff are so surface level AND they're accompanied by plenty of stereotypical girl stuff thanks to the main character being the original stereotypical Barbie (she even refers to herself as such). Shouldn't we as men be able to laugh these jokes off the way women have been expected to laugh off their licks? Or are the offended guys out there thinner-skinned than they think?
Well, the guys in my theater laughed, so I guess male sensitivity and inability to roll with it isn't universal. IMO actually Ken's lines towards the end were pretty insightful, and the movie could easily follow that up with a sequel while Ken wrestles with roles of being a provider, the weight of "being a man" etc. which the film does allude to.

On the other hand, am still mildly - very mildly - annoyed the whole thing wasn't more of a breezy comedy which I was expecting. Maybe they needed another dance number. Simu Liu Ken and Ryan Ken buddy comedy.😁
 
Funny, I was think about the same thing about you. But then I gave it a thought…. And paused. Dang…. Would that be a compliment? Still, haven’t figured it out yet.

And….. No. The sky isn’t falling.
I agree, the sky isn’t falling. Which is why it’s kinda funny that critical drinker acts like it is when he gets outraged over a movie meant for 12 year old girls
 
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