Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
Batman/Joker interrogation scene is one of the greatest moments in superhero cinema.
Batman/Joker interrogation scene is one of the greatest moments in superhero cinema.
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)
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Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
But wasn't Batman already retired at the beginning of Dark Knight Returns, and so, he had quit before the story even started, after Robin was killed? And the impression I got was that he was out of action for a long time.
Deckard
Super Freak
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
Oh. . .never mind, then.
I actually didn't like the Nolan Bats as quitter, either, but thought the trauma of his sidekick getting murdered (which he no doubt felt responsible for) would be a more justified reason for doing it then the supposed crime of Gotham being all cleaned up somehow. Or whatever it was they used to justify it in Rises.
Oh. . .never mind, then.
I actually didn't like the Nolan Bats as quitter, either, but thought the trauma of his sidekick getting murdered (which he no doubt felt responsible for) would be a more justified reason for doing it then the supposed crime of Gotham being all cleaned up somehow. Or whatever it was they used to justify it in Rises.
Deckard
Super Freak
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
GasparZizou
Super Freak
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
Well, the difference between Rises and Returns, as Batfan said, is that Batman succeeded to clean the streets.
Well, the difference between Rises and Returns, as Batfan said, is that Batman succeeded to clean the streets.
Deckard
Super Freak
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
No he didn't. Gordon abuses the system and lies to a court of law putting thousands of men behind bars illegally. After that admission letter went public, man oh man. You know how many lawyers would be lining up to get back into Gotham and represent all of those guys in suing for millions. Gotham would be looking at a massive lawsuit and a lot of criminals still already free from the occupation and then eventually back out from wrongful imprisonment lawsuits. Not to mention zero faith in any of the elected officials, whichever few were left.
No he didn't. Gordon abuses the system and lies to a court of law putting thousands of men behind bars illegally. After that admission letter went public, man oh man. You know how many lawyers would be lining up to get back into Gotham and represent all of those guys in suing for millions. Gotham would be looking at a massive lawsuit and a lot of criminals still already free from the occupation and then eventually back out from wrongful imprisonment lawsuits. Not to mention zero faith in any of the elected officials, whichever few were left.
GasparZizou
Super Freak
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
You're kidding right? Every time Batman puts someone behind bars it is illegal, in the comicbook or in any of the movies, even more so in Returns where the whole superhero thing is illegal, just by being Batman he's breaking the law.
The only real difference is that in Rises he succeeded.
You're kidding right? Every time Batman puts someone behind bars it is illegal, in the comicbook or in any of the movies, even more so in Returns where the whole superhero thing is illegal, just by being Batman he's breaking the law.
The only real difference is that in Rises he succeeded.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Deckard
Super Freak
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
Being a vigilante is illegal. Yes. But him beating up a criminal and then leaving him in an open space to be arrested does not give the criminal any case against the police force. Joker getting assaulted in custody is the only one who'd be able to make that case.
batfan08
Super Freak
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
That's just it, they make it seem like, no matter what, Bruce will always be Batman in the comics, without realizing why he's Batman. Comic Bruce wants to quit every day of his life, but he knows that, as long as the war rages on, he can never do that, but he accepts the fact that he chose this path, and that it's his life. If he did, effectively, clean up Gotham City, and, for whatever reason, costumed lunatics stopped sprouting up like weeds, what would your response be? That he should move to one of the other cities and start protecting it? I just don't understand how "cleaning up the streets" is a "*****" or "*****" move. I think the problems people have with TDKR are that it's not the movie they had already filmed in their minds.
That's just it, they make it seem like, no matter what, Bruce will always be Batman in the comics, without realizing why he's Batman. Comic Bruce wants to quit every day of his life, but he knows that, as long as the war rages on, he can never do that, but he accepts the fact that he chose this path, and that it's his life. If he did, effectively, clean up Gotham City, and, for whatever reason, costumed lunatics stopped sprouting up like weeds, what would your response be? That he should move to one of the other cities and start protecting it? I just don't understand how "cleaning up the streets" is a "*****" or "*****" move. I think the problems people have with TDKR are that it's not the movie they had already filmed in their minds.
GasparZizou
Super Freak
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
The means Batman has used through history to get to some of those villains is illegal.
The means Batman has used through history to get to some of those villains is illegal.
Deckard
Super Freak
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
Cleaning up the streets, cmon. When the crime rate in Detroit or Camden hits zero you let me know.
Doesn't matter, there's no case against the police as long as Batman just leaves them knocked out in public to be cuffed the way he does in Nolan's movies. It's just a wanted criminal found in the open. Being assaulted by a civilian prior to your arrest does not mean you can sue the police.
If someone beat up Hitler 2 years prior to his arrest, we wouldn't have forgiven him for the holocaust.
Cleaning up the streets, cmon. When the crime rate in Detroit or Camden hits zero you let me know.
Doesn't matter, there's no case against the police as long as Batman just leaves them knocked out in public to be cuffed the way he does in Nolan's movies. It's just a wanted criminal found in the open. Being assaulted by a civilian prior to your arrest does not mean you can sue the police.
If someone beat up Hitler 2 years prior to his arrest, we wouldn't have forgiven him for the holocaust.
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
Pretty sure Batman is a deputized agent of the law. He was in the '60s show, so he must also be in the new movies. It's science.
Pretty sure Batman is a deputized agent of the law. He was in the '60s show, so he must also be in the new movies. It's science.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
For a movie built on realism you know how dumb "cleaned up the streets" sounds.
No such thing.
Batman never stops, especially due to meaningless statistics.
Decker beat me to it.
For a movie built on realism you know how dumb "cleaned up the streets" sounds.
No such thing.
Batman never stops, especially due to meaningless statistics.
Decker beat me to it.
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Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
He would move on to another place to keep fighting that fight. He is totally, irrationally driven to exact vengeance on those who would harm innocents. That's what makes Batman Batman, in the way that Miller portrayed him. Take that away, and he's just another schmuck dressed up in leotards like, I don't know, Brainwave, Jr. But again, if he felt horrible trauma and guilt over the death of a sidekick, or possibly any innocent, I can see that changing his way of thinking.
GasparZizou
Super Freak
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
:
No it does matter, in this case there isn't case against the police either, Batman took the blame for Dent, thanks to that the Dent act was approved which allowed the criminals to be processed, and Batman is not a civilian, now you're just skewing your argument and looking for loopholes that aren't there.
People confusing reality with realism
:No it does matter, in this case there isn't case against the police either, Batman took the blame for Dent, thanks to that the Dent act was approved which allowed the criminals to be processed, and Batman is not a civilian, now you're just skewing your argument and looking for loopholes that aren't there.
batfan08
Super Freak
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
Gordon abuses the system in every iteration of Batman, though. This is a police commissioner who regularly enlists a vigilante to solve and assist with crimes, using police resources to do so. As for those men being imprisoned illegally, I hardly see how that's a fair assessment. Of course you'd have civil rights attorneys seeing it that way, but the fact of the matter is that all Gordon really lied about was the state of Harevy Dent's mental health. He was perfectly same when he put those men away, but Gordon (and Batman) knew that, if there was even the slightest hint that something could be awry, all of the work that he had done would have been for nothing, and, technically, if we want to get into the slippery slope of legality, at the end of The Dark Knight, Batman did say "I killed those people." Different context or not, all Gordon really did was withold some information and take a psychopath at his word.
Gordon abuses the system in every iteration of Batman, though. This is a police commissioner who regularly enlists a vigilante to solve and assist with crimes, using police resources to do so. As for those men being imprisoned illegally, I hardly see how that's a fair assessment. Of course you'd have civil rights attorneys seeing it that way, but the fact of the matter is that all Gordon really lied about was the state of Harevy Dent's mental health. He was perfectly same when he put those men away, but Gordon (and Batman) knew that, if there was even the slightest hint that something could be awry, all of the work that he had done would have been for nothing, and, technically, if we want to get into the slippery slope of legality, at the end of The Dark Knight, Batman did say "I killed those people." Different context or not, all Gordon really did was withold some information and take a psychopath at his word.
Deckard
Super Freak
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
You aren't making sense.
I'm saying when Batman knocks someone like Scarecrow and his gang out in the opening of TDK, the police show up and arrest him. Scarecrow's arrest is completely legal because all the police are doing is responding to a call for shots fired and finding known and wanted criminals who are escaped fugitives. The only thing they can do about Batman is add another assault charge to his record if they ever catch him.
You're basically arguing that if a guy murders 12 kids and goes for coffee, and a civilian knocks that man out at the coffee shop and calls the police, the police couldn't arrest the guy that killed 12 children because another civilian punched him in the face? You think that makes any sense whatsoever?
Gordon writes a letter admitting to having lied to a court of law and all of Gotham, breaking his oath of office and committing purgury to cover up Dent's murder while at the same time using that to keep thousands of men in jail illegally with the Dent act. Bane reads it on the news to everyone. Gordon admits that Dent was a pyschopath murderer. Anything he did in office can now be questioned do to his mental state.
People confusing reality with realism
No it does matter, in this case there isn't case against the police either, Batman took the blame for Dent, thanks to that the Dent act was approved which allowed the criminals to be processed, and Batman is not a civilian, now you're just skewing your argument and looking for loopholes that aren't there.
You aren't making sense.
I'm saying when Batman knocks someone like Scarecrow and his gang out in the opening of TDK, the police show up and arrest him. Scarecrow's arrest is completely legal because all the police are doing is responding to a call for shots fired and finding known and wanted criminals who are escaped fugitives. The only thing they can do about Batman is add another assault charge to his record if they ever catch him.
You're basically arguing that if a guy murders 12 kids and goes for coffee, and a civilian knocks that man out at the coffee shop and calls the police, the police couldn't arrest the guy that killed 12 children because another civilian punched him in the face? You think that makes any sense whatsoever?
Gordon writes a letter admitting to having lied to a court of law and all of Gotham, breaking his oath of office and committing purgury to cover up Dent's murder while at the same time using that to keep thousands of men in jail illegally with the Dent act. Bane reads it on the news to everyone. Gordon admits that Dent was a pyschopath murderer. Anything he did in office can now be questioned do to his mental state.
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)
So what the hell was the "Dent Act" and how was it a lie? Was it supposed to some sort of "zero strikes and you're out" type of thing? And lawmakers only passed it under the promise that Dent was really murdered by Batman? Was it somehow written into the law that "Because Dent was a good man and murdered, and we know this to be true because Gordon told us, henceforth all people suspected of organized crime will be incarcerated indefinitely without any need for concrete evidence?"
I want to know. Seriously. How did this law clean up the streets? What difference does it make who it was named after?
So what the hell was the "Dent Act" and how was it a lie? Was it supposed to some sort of "zero strikes and you're out" type of thing? And lawmakers only passed it under the promise that Dent was really murdered by Batman? Was it somehow written into the law that "Because Dent was a good man and murdered, and we know this to be true because Gordon told us, henceforth all people suspected of organized crime will be incarcerated indefinitely without any need for concrete evidence?"
I want to know. Seriously. How did this law clean up the streets? What difference does it make who it was named after?
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