Bin Laden is dead!

[SnakeDoctor]

Crap I gotta keep repeating myself. I said some are brainwashed with all kinds of crap recruiters spout to them just so they can meet their quota. Geez I SUPPORT THE MILITARY OK I just don't support this war and the politicians who are sending human lives to be killed for nothing.
And to the dude who said they are dieing for our freedom,you are wrong. Theres no way the terrorists could take over our country. They don't even have the means to build a ship or aircraft that can reach this country.
And if they did manage to get a large force into here there are so many law enforcement,military personal and citizens (like me) whod pick up their guns and defend this country.

You need not repeat yourself. I heard you. Repeating it a bunch of times doesn't make it true.

First -- they don't need an aircraft that can reach this country when they can just hijack one we've already built.

Second, an invasion/coup is not the only way to lose freedom. Death, for instance, is also a good way to deprive someone of freedom ... that's the one they've used in the past, and that they'd probably use in the future.

Terrorism is, by nature, unconventional warfare. They don't invade in the traditional sense. They use plainclothes clandestine combatants to infiltrate and attack civilian targets specifically to disrupt civilian life. Maximum effect, smallest expenditure of resources. And then they can get people like you to say following their kind to the ends of the earth doesn't qualify as "defending freedom". Its all propaganda, and you've bought it.

Defending American lives is defending American freedom.

SnakeDoc

 

[CLU]

You don't get it, its not that they(terrorist) could ever take over but they have and our trying to kill any and all Americans(and others). Myself and those that have/are serve do so to protect the home land, better to fight them in another country then to let them bring the fight to us here. Your entitled to your opinion, but don't forget you only have the freedom of opinion cause others fought and died so that our way of life lives on.

Yup they fought in wars that were actually for our freedom like WWII. Sad to see our military and resources exhausted on such a pointless battle that can never be won.
Most folks from the military I've spoken to that toured Irag or Afghanistan say even the everyday citizens there who don't support the terrorists still want America outta there.They are losing friends and fellow soldiers and aren't seeing any progrees on the streets.
The military isn't fighting anyone who is a threat to us. They are fighting people who are a threat to the Middle East and it just isn't out battle.
Hell besides 9/11 and the 1993 bombing I haven't seen one damn terrorist act in this country from any international terrorists,it's been all crazy domestic stuff like kkk and the unibomber.
And I know maybe some stuff has been prevented by the CIA and other organizations and that part of the war on terror should stay but this occupation of the Middle East needs to end now.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

Yup they fought in wars that were actually for our freedom like WWII. Sad to see our military and resources exhausted on such a pointless battle that can never be won.
Most folks from the military I've spoken to that toured Irag or Afghanistan say even the everyday citizens there who don't support the terrorists still want America outta there.They are losing friends and fellow soldiers and aren't seeing any progrees on the streets.
The military isn't fighting anyone who is a threat to us. They are fighting people who are a threat to the Middle East and it just isn't out battle.
Hell besides 9/11 and the 1993 bombing I haven't seen one damn terrorist act in this country from any international terrorists,it's been all crazy domestic stuff like kkk and the unibomber.
And I know maybe some stuff has been prevented by the CIA and other organizations and that part of the war on terror should stay but this occupation of the Middle East needs to end now.

Regardless of whether you think it can be won, I assure you it can be lost. The fastest way to lose is to quit fighting. We made that mistake once -- and we got hit on 9-11.

Did it ever occur to you that we don't get more attacks over here because we're keeping them occupied over there? Even then, in addition to the two WTC attacks and the Pentagon -- there's the Shoe Bomber, the attack at Fort Hood, the USS Cole, the Marine Barracks in Lebanon, US Embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania ... etc., etc., etc. All are the result of Islamic terrorism, and all are on sovereign American assets. And that doesn't even include attacks on our allies in Europe and Israel -- subway in Spain, numerous palestinian attacks in Israel, etc., etc.

The threat is very real. You have a very short, very selective memory. Our enemy does not.

There is no occupation of the Middle East.

SnakeDoc

 

[CLU]

Regardless of whether you think it can be won, I assure you it can be lost. The fastest way to lose is to quit fighting. We made that mistake once -- and we got hit on 9-11.

Did it ever occur to you that we don't get more attacks over here because we're keeping them occupied over there? Even then, in addition to the two WTC attacks and the Pentagon -- there's the Shoe Bomber, the attack at Fort Hood, the USS Cole, the Marine Barracks in Lebanon, US Embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania ... etc., etc., etc. All are the result of Islamic terrorism, and all are on sovereign American assets. And that doesn't even include attacks on our allies in Europe and Israel -- subway in Spain, numerous palestinian attacks in Israel, etc., etc.

The threat is very real. You have a very short, very selective memory. Our enemy does not.

There is no occupation of the Middle East.

SnakeDoc

Yea but even before the war there was only one real attack from them. And also us quitting Vietnam had nothing to do with 9/11.

So let me ask you what is your solution? Just keep pumping billions of dollars into this war and keep letting out troops die for a battle that cannot be won?
The Middle East has been around 50x longer than this country has and we cannot act like we understand what is going on with them and whos right or wrong. We just can't run those people's lives over there. We are not the world's police.

 

[The Ringer]

You guys need to share this thread with the rest of us.

 

[CLU]

You guys need to share this thread with the rest of us.

Hey go right ahead. Like I said earlier I think debates like this are good once in a while and I don't hate any of these guys for having opposite beliefs from me. I pretty much said all I can say so please get this thread back on track.

 

[The Ringer]

Let the Bashing of Osama continue.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

One before the war? Are you sure about that? The following were significan attacks prior to 2001 on American assets ...

2001 -- WTC, New York. Pentagon, DC;
2000 -- USS Cole, Yemen;
1998 -- US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania hit by simultaneous truck bombs;
1998 -- RPG hit US Embassy in Beirut;
1996 -- Truck bomb at a US Military Base in Saudi Arabia;
1995 -- Car bomb in Saudi Arabia kills military personnel;
1993 -- Bomb explodes in the Basement of the WTC, New York;
1988 -- TWA bombed over Lockerbie, Scotland kills 189 Americans;
1986 -- German Disco bombed, known to be frequented by American servicemen;
1985 -- Simultaneous sucide attacks against American and Israeli check-ins at Airports in Vienna and Rome;

Shall I continue? Islamic attacks on against Americans and American assets did not start on 9/11. Again, this is just on American assets -- doesn't include Israeli and European assets attacked by the same people.

Since 2001, there has been a bombing on the American Consulate in Pakistan (2002), a Western housing complex bombing in Saudi Arabia (2003), several kidnappings and executions of Americans in Saudi Arabia (2004), Khobar towers bombing in Saudi Arabia (2004), 3 American hotels bombed in Amman, Jordan (2005) ... etc. They actually get much more frequent from 2007-2009 -- I'm just tired of typing. There are another probably dozen car bombs and RPG attacks on American assets (excluding the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan) since 2007.

This also doesn't include foiled plots against American targets.

Your memory is selective and short. There have been numerous attacks by Islamic terrorists on American targets before and after the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq ... though our rate of foiling the plots is getting much better (car bomb in New York, shoe bomber, gunman in Saudi, etc.)

SnakeDoc

 

[Sachiel]

Right and wrong isn't as black and white as it used to be.

Was it ever?

 

[SnakeDoctor]

Yea but even before the war there was only one real attack from them. And also us quitting Vietnam had nothing to do with 9/11.

So let me ask you what is your solution? Just keep pumping billions of dollars into this war and keep letting out troops die for a battle that cannot be won?
The Middle East has been around 50x longer than this country has and we cannot act like we understand what is going on with them and whos right or wrong. We just can't run those people's lives over there. We are not the world's police.

Us quitting Vietnam had nothing to do with 9/11.

Us quitting Somalia certainly did (the Black Hawk Down incident). Bin Laden was tangetentially involved in the Battle of Mogadishu ... where he saw that the US would run if only they drew enough blood with enough publicity. They dragged two Army Rangers through the streets, got it played on CNN, and we turned tail rather than finishing the job (taking out a specific Somali Warlord ... who took Somalia over after we left).

Countering the lesson Osama learned there has been very costly.

SnakeDoc

 

[NosferatuBill36]

One before the war? Are you sure about that? The following were significan attacks prior to 2001 on American assets ...

2001 -- WTC, New York. Pentagon, DC;
2000 -- USS Cole, Yemen;
1998 -- US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania hit by simultaneous truck bombs;
1998 -- RPG hit US Embassy in Beirut;
1996 -- Truck bomb at a US Military Base in Saudi Arabia;
1995 -- Car bomb in Saudi Arabia kills military personnel;
1993 -- Bomb explodes in the Basement of the WTC, New York;
1988 -- TWA bombed over Lockerbie, Scotland kills 189 Americans;
1986 -- German Disco bombed, known to be frequented by American servicemen;
1985 -- Simultaneous sucide attacks against American and Israeli check-ins at Airports in Vienna and Rome;

Shall I continue? Islamic attacks on against Americans and American assets did not start on 9/11. Again, this is just on American assets -- doesn't include Israeli and European assets attacked by the same people.

Since 2001, there has been a bombing on the American Consulate in Pakistan (2002), a Western housing complex bombing in Saudi Arabia (2003), several kidnappings and executions of Americans in Saudi Arabia (2004), Khobar towers bombing in Saudi Arabia (2004), 3 American hotels bombed in Amman, Jordan (2005) ... etc. They actually get much more frequent from 2007-2009 -- I'm just tired of typing. There are another probably dozen car bombs and RPG attacks on American assets (excluding the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan) since 2007.

This also doesn't include foiled plots against American targets.

Your memory is selective and short. There have been numerous attacks by Islamic terrorists on American targets before and after the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq ... though our rate of foiling the plots is getting much better (car bomb in New York, shoe bomber, gunman in Saudi, etc.)

SnakeDoc

Pretty much this.

 

[thenammagazine]

Us quitting Vietnam had nothing to do with 9/11.

Us quitting Somalia certainly did (the Black Hawk Down incident). Bin Laden was tangetentially involved in the Battle of Mogadishu ... where he saw that the US would run if only they drew enough blood with enough publicity. They dragged two Army Rangers through the streets, got it played on CNN, and we turned tail rather than finishing the job (taking out a specific Somali Warlord ... who took Somalia over after we left).

Countering the lesson Osama learned there has been very costly.

SnakeDoc

*raises hand*

That's not exactly the truth. The job was finished. Just not "publicly."

 

[jonny88]

And to the dude who said they are dieing for our freedom,you are wrong. Theres no way the terrorists could take over our country. They don't even have the means to build a ship or aircraft that can reach this country.
And if they did manage to get a large force into here there are so many law enforcement,military personal and citizens (like me) whod pick up their guns and defend this country.

wow,. l had to give you those. you just don't get it, seriously. you still don't believe soldiers are fighting for our freedom. of course terrorist can't take over the US by invasion, but if they want they can really F things up,(9/11). seriously stop before you get banned for being a huge dumb ass. you are pissing off and offendng alot of people. you're absolutely have your opinion, but it is a stupid one.

 

[DiFabio]

I wonder if we'll ever witness terrorists without Islamic ties or religious and political motives. I wonder how we'd feel if it were one of our own.

 

[thenammagazine]

I wonder if we'll ever witness terrorists without Islamic ties or religious and political motives. I wonder how we'd feel if it were one of our own.

Ted Kaczynski and Timothy McVeigh come to mind.

 

[devilof76]

2001 -- WTC, New York. Pentagon, DC;
2000 -- USS Cole, Yemen;
1998 -- US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania hit by simultaneous truck bombs;
1998 -- RPG hit US Embassy in Beirut;
1996 -- Truck bomb at a US Military Base in Saudi Arabia;
1995 -- Car bomb in Saudi Arabia kills military personnel;
1993 -- Bomb explodes in the Basement of the WTC, New York;
1988 -- TWA bombed over Lockerbie, Scotland kills 189 Americans;
1986 -- German Disco bombed, known to be frequented by American servicemen;
1985 -- Simultaneous sucide attacks against American and Israeli check-ins at Airports in Vienna and Rome;

https://www.classicalideals.com/chronology.htm

 

[Sachiel]

Bin Laden is dead!

 

[Grange Wallis]

Sorry, but this is the POV of people who have never been affected by tragedy.

All I will say is I'm Australian and Bali bombings. Work it out champ!

 

[SnakeDoctor]

*raises hand*

That's not exactly the truth. The job was finished. Just not "publicly."

Huh? The Somali mission was to take out several lieutenants to warlord Muhammed Farah Aidid -- who was the actual final target. The lieutenants were captured, but, during the raid, a couple of Black Hawks were shot down -- 18 Americans died, and several were dragged through the streets in the ensuing battle.

We withdrew from Somalia after the Battle of Mogadishu in 1995 -- and Aidid declared himself President. He died of a heart attack in 1996 after a gunfight with other warlords and Somalis in the hell-hole we left there.

How, exactly, was the job "finished" by Aidid dying of a heart attack after a gunfight with Somalis?

SnakeDoc

 

[thenammagazine]

Huh? The Somali mission was to take out several lieutenants to warlord Muhammed Farah Aidid -- who was the actual final target. The lieutenants were captured, but, during the raid, a couple of Black Hawks were shot down -- 18 Americans died, and several were dragged through the streets in the ensuing battle.

We withdrew from Somalia after the Battle of Mogadishu in 1995 -- and Aidid declared himself President. He died of a heart attack in 1996 after a gunfight with other warlords and Somalis in the hell-hole we left there.

How, exactly, was the job "finished" by Aidid dying of a heart attack after a gunfight with Somalis?

SnakeDoc

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