Black Panther Wakanda Forever - November 11, 2022

[Mondragon]

Found deleted scene for BP2-WF

Maybe it will change your mind about it all.

LOL thought those were clips from the "specialized edition" of the Gods Must be Crazy

 

[RavenAsh]

Have no idea why this was so boring and overwritten. Should have been at least 40 minutes shorter. Motivations of most characters make no sense. The second act especially has no momentum whatsoever. The underwater sequences are extremely uninteresting stylistically. I also absolutely despised the montage right at the climax of the final fight as if the audience are absolutely dumb. Although I guess it’s reasonable considering people may have fallen asleep during those scenes.

Speaking of the final fight, I think they somehow outdid the first movie’s PS3 video game by doing an even worse version. Everything is green/blue screened to hell and back and they don’t even attempt to hide it. It’s pure CGI noise. I hate Shuri’s nanotech helmet, it doesnt even look close to being able to fit on her head.

Also, Riri is one of the most annoying characters I’ve ever seen so of course she’s a set-up for the future to be the next ‘Iron-Man’. Fantastic! Can’t wait to not watch her show. All the setups for the future were of this quality to me, completely uninteresting and having the opposite intended effect.

BUT, I will say the tributes to Chadwick, especially the Marvel Studios logo, was very touching. The movie misses him and T’Chala in almost every way from a scripting standpoint. Angela Bassett is fantastic and absolutely deserves her nomination. Even beside her, I actually found most of the acting to be good, and thought the best stuff in the movie was when those actors got to act. There’s just way too many overtly exposition dialogue scenes that are extremely uninteresting. Very mediocre movie with some admittedly great scenes which showcase a better story under the surface of this dull mishmash.

 

[Zurdo95D]

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Have no idea why this was so boring and overwritten. Should have been at least 40 minutes shorter. Motivations of most characters make no sense. The second act especially has no momentum whatsoever. The underwater sequences are extremely uninteresting stylistically. I also absolutely despised the montage right at the climax of the final fight as if the audience are absolutely dumb. Although I guess it’s reasonable considering people may have fallen asleep during those scenes.

Also, Riri is one of the most annoying characters I’ve ever seen so of course she’s a set-up for the future to be the next ‘Iron-Man’. Fantastic! Can’t wait to not watch her show. All the setups for the future were of this quality to me, completely uninteresting and having the opposite intended effect.

The "Heavens Gate Principle"

When a director helms a film that is an international power house and garners critical acclaim and makes lots of money, especially in dynamics that are typically box office poison based on genre, then you get a blank check usually on your next big project.

Creed 1 and BP1 both garnered Oscar consideration. BP1 was a worldwide hit that defied most standard Hollywood projections.

Lots of artistic types get indulgent beyond reason. The 5th Harry Potter book was just really poorly done. But, by then, JK Rowling had a free hand to write as much as she want and ignore any editors she didn't like. Damien Chazelle, who did the amazing Whiplash, just had a huge bomb of late, Babylon. But Whiplash generated so much goodwill for him, that he got the benefit of the doubt to make an extravagant bomb.

The Riri character was insufferable. But if I am going to be fair, the MCU and the first BP used up so many more bankable black actors, the potential bench for new actors was really thin. I mean, at this point, who hasn't been in an MCU TV series or film? Also remove any DCEU actor too aligned with their super hero role there to do a role in the MCU seamlessly.

My take has always been the same - Stick with your best actors left. And if you can't do that, then your most marketable actor. So that means the new Black Panther should have been Angela Bassett. Barring that, some workaround to get Michael B Jordan in the role.

There were also the "checklist" issues in any MCU film, stuff designed to push the entire overall arc. Like putting Julia Louis Dreyfus' character in the mix in multiple films.

So I consider that James Cameron and Quentin Tarantino space out their films exactly for this reason. They aren't looking to rush big budget movies with huge expectations like it's an assembly line.

Tony Gilroy took a very long time with Andor, and it shows. BP2WF is a product. That's the core problem. The MCU is like a factory churning out energy drinks at this point. That's why these recent slate of films are so "empty calories" kind of bad.

 

[ZE_501]

I re-activated Disney+ to check out The Mandalorian -- jury is out on that but expectations are low so whatever. I tried watching Wakanda Forever and turned it off before the funeral scene was over.

This is not like me; I've given what were probably worse films a chance.

Obviously this is no commentary on Boseman, he seemed like a good guy taken far too soon in a tragic fashion, but I'm not conflating the man with the film.

The film -- within two minutes I just didn't buy it, visually, conceptually it just felt flat and weird. I didn't like Wakanda's production design and art direction in the first film because it felt too reliant on cheap CG and felt way over-designed and at once blandly generic like most of the MCU -- Meinerding CG Universe -- does at this point. Wakanda Forever seems to double down on the things I didn't like.

The film looked very cheap immediately. Granted, I work in film and may see things others don't? But the poorly lit fake greenery and foam bricks took me out of it, and the flat CG had no heart -- no texture and no weight.

The acting ... this is what I mean by poorly conceived. I couldn't get behind the premise of the character's manner of death, I couldn't get behind the grief portrayed, something just felt very contrived and corporate.

They should have attempted to recast Boseman. The fans would have accepted it. He was great in the role, but it was just a role and I'm not convinced -- as great as he was -- that this was the equivalent of say, RDJ as Stark. And even so, could they have re-cast him after just two appearances?

Maybe. We'll never know. I have no doubt that Tom Cruise could have portrayed Stark. It's not like there are no charismatic actors to follow Boseman, even if they're few and far between.

Maybe if I'm catastrophically bored I'll give the film another chance someday, but right now I doubt it.

I get it, I'm trashing this film based on like ... ten minutes. It's not fair. Maybe I'm just burned out on the MCU thanks to their new and very bland direction.

 

[Khev]

I re-activated Disney+ to check out The Mandalorian -- jury is out on that but expectations are low so whatever. I tried watching Wakanda Forever and turned it off before the funeral scene was over.

This is not like me; I've given what were probably worse films a chance.

Obviously this is no commentary on Boseman, he seemed like a good guy taken far too soon in a tragic fashion, but I'm not conflating the man with the film.

The film -- within two minutes I just didn't buy it, visually, conceptually it just felt flat and weird. I didn't like Wakanda's production design and art direction in the first film because it felt too reliant on cheap CG and felt way over-designed and at once blandly generic like most of the MCU -- Meinerding CG Universe -- does at this point. Wakanda Forever seems to double down on the things I didn't like.

The film looked very cheap immediately. Granted, I work in film and may see things others don't? But the poorly lit fake greenery and foam bricks took me out of it, and the flat CG had no heart -- no texture and no weight.

The acting ... this is what I mean by poorly conceived. I couldn't get behind the premise of the character's manner of death, I couldn't get behind the grief portrayed, something just felt very contrived and corporate.

They should have attempted to recast Boseman. The fans would have accepted it. He was great in the role, but it was just a role and I'm not convinced -- as great as he was -- that this was the equivalent of say, RDJ as Stark. And even so, could they have re-cast him after just two appearances?

Maybe. We'll never know. I have no doubt that Tom Cruise could have portrayed Stark. It's not like there are no charismatic actors to follow Boseman, even if they're few and far between.

Maybe if I'm catastrophically bored I'll give the film another chance someday, but right now I doubt it.

I get it, I'm trashing this film based on like ... ten minutes. It's not fair. Maybe I'm just burned out on the MCU thanks to their new and very bland direction.

Who knows what you'll think if you finish it but I doubt your opinions will change. It took me two or three nights to finally get through it and I agree with everything you said about the part you saw.

There's a series of flashbacks at the end that hit me in the feels but otherwise the entire vibe of this movie apparently portraying itself as some sort of therapy for the audience as if Boseman was a close family member to each and every one of us was a bit much.

As for the world building I agree that it was very uninspired so unfortunately you don't have much to look forward to in that regard either, lol.

 

[ZE_501]

Who knows what you'll think if you finish it but I doubt your opinions will change.

Kind of what I thought.

As for the world building I agree that it was very uninspired so unfortunately you don't have much to look forward to in that regard either, lol.

Bah. I'll watch Din blast Guy Ritchie pirates over this nonsense any day.

 

[Sassafras]

I re-activated Disney+ to check out The Mandalorian -- jury is out on that but expectations are low so whatever. I tried watching Wakanda Forever and turned it off before the funeral scene was over.

This is not like me; I've given what were probably worse films a chance.

Obviously this is no commentary on Boseman, he seemed like a good guy taken far too soon in a tragic fashion, but I'm not conflating the man with the film.

The film -- within two minutes I just didn't buy it, visually, conceptually it just felt flat and weird. I didn't like Wakanda's production design and art direction in the first film because it felt too reliant on cheap CG and felt way over-designed and at once blandly generic like most of the MCU -- Meinerding CG Universe -- does at this point. Wakanda Forever seems to double down on the things I didn't like.

The film looked very cheap immediately. Granted, I work in film and may see things others don't? But the poorly lit fake greenery and foam bricks took me out of it, and the flat CG had no heart -- no texture and no weight.

The acting ... this is what I mean by poorly conceived. I couldn't get behind the premise of the character's manner of death, I couldn't get behind the grief portrayed, something just felt very contrived and corporate.

They should have attempted to recast Boseman. The fans would have accepted it. He was great in the role, but it was just a role and I'm not convinced -- as great as he was -- that this was the equivalent of say, RDJ as Stark. And even so, could they have re-cast him after just two appearances?

Maybe. We'll never know. I have no doubt that Tom Cruise could have portrayed Stark. It's not like there are no charismatic actors to follow Boseman, even if they're few and far between.

Maybe if I'm catastrophically bored I'll give the film another chance someday, but right now I doubt it.

I get it, I'm trashing this film based on like ... ten minutes. It's not fair. Maybe I'm just burned out on the MCU thanks to their new and very bland direction.

Well, IMO ur not missing anything. Thought the funeral tribute to Boseman was tastefully done (except for the dancer who kept smiling like this was the best time evah) - and a few performances were better than I thought would be -

but there's some less-than-stellar films I'll rewatch, because of the sheer charisma of the the actors or something grabs me (like one of the reasons I went back to Last Jedi was a few of the shots were simply spectacular) but this film - meh. There's no visuals I cared about; blatant ripoffs of other films, actors trying hard but not much you can do with a contrived narrative, other things IMO are just dumb past suspension of disbelief, IMO the new armor looks ridiculous, every snarky YTuber is absolutely accurate and a lot more fun to watch. The whole Riri thing is cringe. Things happen because.

 

[ZE_501]

Well, IMO ur not missing anything. Thought the funeral tribute to Boseman was tastefully done (except for the dancer who kept smiling like this was the best time evah)

That jumped out at me. I had to do some mental gymnastics and figured it was meant to convey joy at his 'joining the ancestors' and continuation etc. but it was jarring and dissonant, especially given his mourners in the foreground.

Anyway, glad it's not just me. I wasn't sure I'd feel good about myself giving it any time.

 

[Khev]

Is it weird that I have absolutely no recollection of a dancer smiling with glee during the funeral and now kind of want to go back and watch that part just for the lolz?

Oh and just the fact that anyone under any circumstances just typed the sentence I wrote above pretty much confirms that you as the director failed at portraying an emotional funeral, lol.

 

[ironwez20]

She was smiling through the pain. Which is t what I did when I was watching this crap movie. Such a downgrade from the original in every way.

 

[Sassafras]

Is it weird that I have absolutely no recollection of a dancer smiling with glee during the funeral and now kind of want to go back and watch that part just for the lolz?

Oh and just the fact that anyone under any circumstances just typed the sentence I wrote above pretty much confirms that you as the director failed at portraying an emotional funeral, lol.

Well the drummers seem pretty happy too, but there's this one woman happily dancing away with a big grin like "I got a paycheck for dancin' and I'll be eating steak this week!" Kind of jarring with grief of mother and daughter.

But that's minor compared to the many fails of this film, including shots so dark u need to squint, a twig-like heroine, the fem-Transformers armor (a far more entertaining film, for what it is), criminal underuse of certain actors, and the fact that it's often boring, along with the usual overhype of Wakanda although - as usual, one asks oneself how the most technically advanced civilization in the world is threatened by water balloons.

 

[darth dennis]

I re-activated Disney+ to check out The Mandalorian -- jury is out on that but expectations are low so whatever. I tried watching Wakanda Forever and turned it off before the funeral scene was over.

This is not like me; I've given what were probably worse films a chance.

Obviously this is no commentary on Boseman, he seemed like a good guy taken far too soon in a tragic fashion, but I'm not conflating the man with the film.

The film -- within two minutes I just didn't buy it, visually, conceptually it just felt flat and weird. I didn't like Wakanda's production design and art direction in the first film because it felt too reliant on cheap CG and felt way over-designed and at once blandly generic like most of the MCU -- Meinerding CG Universe -- does at this point. Wakanda Forever seems to double down on the things I didn't like.

The film looked very cheap immediately. Granted, I work in film and may see things others don't? But the poorly lit fake greenery and foam bricks took me out of it, and the flat CG had no heart -- no texture and no weight.

The acting ... this is what I mean by poorly conceived. I couldn't get behind the premise of the character's manner of death, I couldn't get behind the grief portrayed, something just felt very contrived and corporate.

They should have attempted to recast Boseman. The fans would have accepted it. He was great in the role, but it was just a role and I'm not convinced -- as great as he was -- that this was the equivalent of say, RDJ as Stark. And even so, could they have re-cast him after just two appearances?

Maybe. We'll never know. I have no doubt that Tom Cruise could have portrayed Stark. It's not like there are no charismatic actors to follow Boseman, even if they're few and far between.

Maybe if I'm catastrophically bored I'll give the film another chance someday, but right now I doubt it.

I get it, I'm trashing this film based on like ... ten minutes. It's not fair. Maybe I'm just burned out on the MCU thanks to their new and very bland direction.

Gotta 100% agree with this. I did watch the entire film because I had nothing to do a couple Saturday's ago and the remote was out of arm's length (ok, I'm kidding there). It felt like watching a Hollywood adaptation of of a big, flashy Broadway hit. The choreography and colors were primarily to blame as I found the acting pretty decent. MCU post-Endgame continues to not interest me...

 

[Zurdo95D]

[...] I work in film and may see things others don't [...]

So ZE_501 Marvel Studios should hire you and then you'll go on to make a great Marvel movie for all of us?

They should have attempted to recast Boseman. The fans would have accepted it. He was great in the role [...]

Undoubtedly, proceeding forward with BP2 and future appearances of the character is/was a difficult matter to tackle with C.B.'s passing. I personally would've liked to have seen him reprise the role posthumously via motion capture and voice synthesizing, but I still appreciated the approach they went with in WF.

 

[ZE_501]

So ZE_501 Marvel Studios should hire you and then you'll go on to make a great Marvel movie for all of us?

It'd probably be too dark and gritty.

 

[ironwez20]

It'd probably be too dark and gritty.

You could be the next Snyder if you go that route. Make it dark and gritty. Disney cancels it and you have Twitter bros trying to get your universe back. It’s genius

 

[Zurdo95D]

It'd probably be too dark and gritty.

 

[ZE_501]

You could be the next Snyder if you go that route. Make it dark and gritty. Disney cancels it and you have Twitter bros trying to get your universe back. It’s genius

I'd have to change my forum handle to ZACH_501

 

[Zurdo95D]

I'd have to change my forum handle to ZACH_501

ZE_501- verse of Marvel films coming!

 

[ZE_501]

ZE_501- verse of Marvel films coming!

They'd be shown drinking a lot of coffee in the rain. That's how you know it's art.