Blue-Ray or HD DVD

[Reinhardt]

No, unfortunately it can't. Because of the way it was implemented, the optical audio connector does not have the bandwidth to carry the HD audio codecs, nor does it have the bandwidth to carry more than two channels of uncompressed sound.

What you get via the optical connector when you select a TrueHD or DTS-HD track in a movie is the "core" signal, meaning the regular Dolby Digital or DTS track, extracted from the HD signal. On some players, they do take the time to actually process the full HD signal and convert it to DTS at its maximum bit rate, which does sound very, very nice (the HD-A1 does this), but it's still not the full HD track.

To take full advantage of any of the HD audio options, you will need HDMI. And specifically, if you want to pass the HD audio codecs directly to your receiver for decoding and processing, you will need a receiver with full HDMI 1.3 support.

hey robo,

so, even if i don't have HDMI, i can get trueHD sound with components?

 

[RoboDad]

hey robo,

so, even if i don't have HDMI, i can get trueHD sound with components?

The only way to hear TrueHD audio without HDMI is if your player can decode it, and both your player and your receiver have multi-channel (5.1) analog audio connectors (such as the Toshiba HD-A1, as mentioned earlier in the thread). If you have those, then you are good to go. Otherwise, you'll be "stuck" listening to DTS or Dolby Digital (which still ain't half bad).

 

[nash]

Tom, does the PS3 prompt you to get the latest system update? or do you have to check manually?

 

[tomandshell]

I believe that I have had to go in and do it manually, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

 

[RoboDad]

Which update are you guys talking about? Mine has always prompted me as soon as I turn it on when an update is available.

 

[Reinhardt]

Hey Robo,

you had mentioned this in a previous post:
What you get via the optical connector when you select a TrueHD or DTS-HD track in a movie is the "core" signal, meaning the regular Dolby Digital or DTS track, extracted from the HD signal. On some players, they do take the time to actually process the full HD signal and convert it to DTS at its maximum bit rate, which does sound very, very nice (the HD-A1 does this), but it's still not the full HD track.

just so I'm clear, that works through the optical output, or the 5 channel analog output? the reason I am asking is because on the HD A2 player, there is no 5 channel analog output anymore. I'm attaching some text from a reviewer (thanks to bagel) and wanted to know if they are saying the same thing as you said above:

"Without this HDMI audio capability you'll be limited to hearing only the downconverted output over the optical Toslink connection. DD+ or TrueHD signals are decoded and converted to PCM in the player. This PCM signal is then re-encoded as a 1.5 Mbps DTS bitstream, which is then output over the Toslink connection and decoded yet again from DTS to (ultimately) analog by your AVR or pre/pro."

the reason I'm asking is because my receiver does not have HDMI.

and nice avatar btw!!! is that the same one as mine?

 

[bagelsncheesey]

Tom, does the PS3 prompt you to get the latest system update? or do you have to check manually?

Yes, it prompts you when you turn the system on, right after it says 'push the ps button'.

 

[user 122]

"Without this HDMI audio capability you'll be limited to hearing only the downconverted output over the optical Toslink connection. DD+ or TrueHD signals are decoded and converted to PCM in the player. This PCM signal is then re-encoded as a 1.5 Mbps DTS bitstream, which is then output over the Toslink connection and decoded yet again from DTS to (ultimately) analog by your AVR or pre/pro."

The statement above is correct. I have an A2 as well and only have optical on my receiver and this is exactly what is played while watching all HD DVD's - but also I should mention is they are some what quieter as well. You will have to turn up the volume slightly higher on these soundtracks than you would on normal DD tracks.

 

[Reinhardt]

The statement above is correct. I have an A2 as well and only have optical on my receiver and this is exactly what is played while watching all HD DVD's - but also I should mention is they are some what quieter as well. You will have to turn up the volume slightly higher on these soundtracks than you would on normal DD tracks.

so does that mean that i can't get anything remotely close to TrueHD sound this way? the problem i am finding is that most HD DVDs dont' come with DTS (have no idea why), and dolby digital 5.1 doesn't sound nearly as good as DTS, or TrueHD sound.

 

[tomandshell]

I figured out my problem--I bought the 20 GB PS3, which doesn't have a wireless connection. I don't keep the network cable plugged in all the time, which explains why I don't always get prompts for updates, lol.

 

[RoboDad]

so does that mean that i can't get anything remotely close to TrueHD sound this way? the problem i am finding is that most HD DVDs dont' come with DTS (have no idea why), and dolby digital 5.1 doesn't sound nearly as good as DTS, or TrueHD sound.

If you only have optical inputs on your receiver, then you will not be able to hear any HD audio tracks. The best you could hope for would be full bit rate (1.5 Mbps) DTS downconverted versions of those tracks.

And, the reason most HD DVDs don't come with DTS-HD is because, during the early negotiations, DTS and the DVD Forum came to loggerheads over the issue of additional licensing fees for the HD variations of their codecs, so the Forum decided to make DTS-HD optional. Hence, many discs aren't including it, because there is no guarantee that a player will offer it (even though all do now that DTS has addressed the licensing issue, and includes DTS-HD support in all DTS licenses).

 

[Reinhardt]

so, from what you said before:

What you get via the optical connector when you select a TrueHD or DTS-HD track in a movie is the "core" signal, meaning the regular Dolby Digital or DTS track, extracted from the HD signal. On some players, they do take the time to actually process the full HD signal and convert it to DTS at its maximum bit rate, which does sound very, very nice (the HD-A1 does this), but it's still not the full HD track.

does that mean I can do this at least with my optical connector and the Toshiba HD A2 HD DVD player?

Sorry, I'm so confused!! this stuff is insane!!! but i appreciate your responses!!

 

[tomandshell]

It can be totally confusing sifting through all of this information, that's for sure!

To listen to DolbyTrueHD audio, you need either an HDMI capable audio receiver, or a player and receiver with six channel analog audio out/inputs. The A1 will decode TrueHD and send out the six channel sound to your receiver. If your receiver will not accept six channel input, or if your player doesn't output it, then you will need HDMI. If you only have optical audio in/output, then you will not be getting TrueHD. The 360 downmixes TrueHD to a DTS signal. The PS3, on the other hand, just gives you the core 2.0 audio via optical if you try to play an uncompressed PCM track. I much prefer the 360's method as you are still getting a great quality 5.1 surround sound mix instead of a super quality 2.0.

My understanding is that with the A2 and an optical connection, you will be getting a downconverted surround audio signal as with the 360, and not a 2.0 signal as with the PS3.

 

[Reinhardt]

dude, this explains a lot. thanks!

so, to get the best sound, you should have your player AND receiver both with HDMI inputs.
next best is player and receiver with 6 analog inputs.
next best is optical.

ok, so is it common for receivers to have HDMI inputs? a friend of mine just recently picked up a 7.1 receiver but it didn't have HDMI. are those receivers very expensive right now??

It can be totally confusing sifting through all of this information, that's for sure!

To listen to DolbyTrueHD audio, you need either an HDMI capable audio receiver, or a player and receiver with six channel analog audio out/inputs. The A1 will decode TrueHD and send out the six channel sound to your receiver. If your receiver will not accept six channel input, or if your player doesn't output it, then you will need HDMI. If you only have optical audio in/output, then you will not be getting TrueHD. The 360 downmixes TrueHD to a DTS signal. The PS3, on the other hand, just gives you the core 2.0 audio via optical if you try to play an uncompressed PCM track. I much prefer the 360's method as you are still getting a great quality 5.1 surround sound mix instead of a super quality 2.0.

My understanding is that with the A2 and an optical connection, you will be getting a downconverted surround audio signal as with the 360, and not a 2.0 signal as with the PS3.

 

[tomandshell]

dude, this explains a lot. thanks!

so, to get the best sound, you should have your player AND receiver both with HDMI inputs.
next best is player and receiver with 6 analog inputs.
next best is optical.

ok, so is it common for receivers to have HDMI inputs? a friend of mine just recently picked up a 7.1 receiver but it didn't have HDMI. are those receivers very expensive right now??

My local Best Buy has one receiver with HDMI--and it's passthrough only, so it won't work. Just to make things even more confusing, many receivers that do have an HDMI connection will only allow the signal to pass through and send it to the TV--they will not decode the audio. So be wary of anything that says "passthrough only" as that won't decode the signal, either.

The confusion continues...

 

[bagelsncheesey]

Here's the way I look at it guys. Hold off on buying receivers for now, because soon things will change and they'll be cheaper.

If you have a 5.1 receiver, and you run optical cabling from your HD player to your receiver and crank it even halfway, it's going to sound awesome. Trust me

 

[tomandshell]

I agree that receiver shopping is a dangerous business these days.

And on top of passthrough VS. processing, I don't think we've even gotten to the difference between HDMI 1.1 and 1.3 yet...

 

[Reinhardt]

And on top of passthrough VS. processing, I don't think we've even gotten to the difference between HDMI 1.1 and 1.3 yet...

huh?????

 

[bagelsncheesey]

huh?????

trust me, you don't even want to get into the realm of understanding this

 

[Reinhardt]

trust me, you don't even want to get into the realm of understanding this

ha!!

try me!! my brain is exploding right now, but i'm interested!!