Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier (SPOILERS)

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Well let me say that I felt it achieved a level of verisimilitude rarely seen in comic book films. Kind of like going from the CG Clone Wars cartoon to the live-action OT. ALL of it is pure fantasy but the OT has real actors, footage, etc., and therefore feels more "real."

I felt a similar step up in that regard compared to other Marvel films (though the first Iron Man came pretty close.)

The final battle scene was more memorable for me than the 1st Iron Man movie though.
 
Red Skull would be an awesome lead-in to the Phase 3 Avengers movie. He's be more than welcome in Cap 3.
 
:lol :lol :lol
 

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Is it too late to make Agent Ward RS? :lol

@Frank, I'm not so certain if the political espionage drama was as shallow as you described, I just think it was simply painted in broad strokes.

It's only as deep as the surface it scratches. I'm not saying it needs to be deeper in order to be entertaining. Hands down it's the best film since IM/Avengers in the MCU for me so far. A film that spends the majority of it's time appealing to a power fantasy, restricts its ability to appeal to reality. It can't do both. I enjoy them immensely, but I'm not particularly moved by any of them. The villains are actually the ones that get to represent what's really going on in the world with the heros serving as wish fullfillment, no matter how blatantly absurd.

"So I just found out I evolved power over weather because of something in my DNA said I could." Yeah, okay. Cool story though!

Hydra is actually very identifiable in what we've been seeing as within the grasp of worldy power today. Arnim Zola's algorithm essentially already exists and in play today by businesses, gangs, and governments. Someone like Cap is more an anomaly than a real representative of the "good guys", he's the one that saves the day and when he looks back at the 5-foot nothing he used to be, he's really looking at the audience. He's got the super serum and Hollywood combat moves to solve his problems, which dismisses a real life solution to a similar situation. The kind of infiltration we're talking about in SHIELD would have taken more courage by more people to overcome with few survivors. Jack Ryan would have been a mangled corpse in nearly every action scene here even with all the bullet-dodging magic he could muster. :lol

They maintained a great amount of tension for most of the movie and that's a highmark for a CBM, but I'm not terribly worried about anyone perma-dying. After Coulsons non-death death, I was looking at Fury on the slab and thinking "uh-huh, yeah right". Now Thanos is the big bad*** looming on the horizon, but in the end what do we have, "Death Takes A Booty-Call?" Cool, just not deep.
 
So, in fewer words: I'd like it if more reviewers judge it within the context of genre and fewer fans need it to be ultimate expression of cinema. Half of the fan rage and bad reviews come from massively unrealistic expectations.
 
I find it humorous what hurts Cap physically, despite the fact he can make unbelievable landings from such great heights. Apparently that serum that Stark's daddy gave Rogers (which is really only a super steroid), defies all sorts of physics. I get it, it's a super hero movie, but sometimes it's hard to suspend disbelief, when even the fictional physics in the film, come with contradictions. :p
 
Is it too late to make Agent Ward RS? :lol



It's only as deep as the surface it scratches. I'm not saying it needs to be deeper in order to be entertaining. Hands down it's the best film since IM/Avengers in the MCU for me so far. A film that spends the majority of it's time appealing to a power fantasy, restricts its ability to appeal to reality. It can't do both. I enjoy them immensely, but I'm not particularly moved by any of them. The villains are actually the ones that get to represent what's really going on in the world with the heros serving as wish fullfillment, no matter how blatantly absurd.

"So I just found out I evolved power over weather because of something in my DNA said I could." Yeah, okay. Cool story though!

Hydra is actually very identifiable in what we've been seeing as within the grasp of worldy power today. Arnim Zola's algorithm essentially already exists and in play today by businesses, gangs, and governments. Someone like Cap is more an anomaly than a real representative of the "good guys", he's the one that saves the day and when he looks back at the 5-foot nothing he used to be, he's really looking at the audience. He's got the super serum and Hollywood combat moves to solve his problems, which dismisses a real life solution to a similar situation. The kind of infiltration we're talking about in SHIELD would have taken more courage by more people to overcome with few survivors. Jack Ryan would have been a mangled corpse in nearly every action scene here even with all the bullet-dodging magic he could muster. :lol

They maintained a great amount of tension for most of the movie and that's a highmark for a CBM, but I'm not terribly worried about anyone perma-dying. After Coulsons non-death death, I was looking at Fury on the slab and thinking "uh-huh, yeah right". Now Thanos is the big bad*** looming on the horizon, but in the end what do we have, "Death Takes A Booty-Call?" Cool, just not deep.

So, in fewer words: I'd like it if more reviewers judge it within the context of genre and fewer fans need it to be ultimate expression of cinema. Half of the fan rage and bad reviews come from massively unrealistic expectations.


:duff

Good post

These movies are entertaining.

I'm happy.
 
Will Cap age and die eventually or does he just have a super long lifespan?

He should age and die. In this fictional world apparently being frozen at any capacity doesn't deteriorate the body and keeps the shelf life of said individual going as though they were in the freezer for one second. *finally grasps a breath* That was a long run-on sentence. And just for convenience sake, the same goes for the Winter Soldier. He apparently goes back into his frozen state after every completed mission, thus why he hasn't aged much over all those decades. But hey, I am just playing along with their world. Who truly knows the answer to that question, but the guy who's writing his story. ;)
 
It's only as deep as the surface it scratches. I'm not saying it needs to be deeper in order to be entertaining. Hands down it's the best film since IM/Avengers in the MCU for me so far. A film that spends the majority of it's time appealing to a power fantasy, restricts its ability to appeal to reality. It can't do both. I enjoy them immensely, but I'm not particularly moved by any of them. The villains are actually the ones that get to represent what's really going on in the world with the heros serving as wish fullfillment, no matter how blatantly absurd.
I think there is truth to this, but at the same time, I think a film targeting a truly mass audience can only go so far with complex, genuinely sophisticated issues. Because otherwise, at a certain point, an audience expecting to see a comic book film is going to turn off. So for example, something as dense and complicated as Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy from a couple years back couldn't be translated into a Marvel film and succeed in the way Marvel films are expected to succeed. Some would love it, some could probably handle it, but many would revolt, even if the intrigue were punctuated by crazy action scenes. I'm not saying Cap was "dumbed down" or anything, but I think the filmmakers understand that a balance has to be reached, and construct these films with that in mind. They pushed the political intrigue angle pretty dang far for a comic film, and succeeded at it, but at the end of the day, this is a comic book film for a comic film audience. They're not targeting spy film buffs.
 
I found TWS to be a great movie. Period. Obviously everyone's mileage will vary. But I'm not going to sit here and say, "TWS was a great Captain America movie, a good superhero movie, a mediocre political thriller, and a poor romantic comedy." Who does that? Every genre that it borrowed from or overlapped with it did with expert precision and balance with regard to the story they wanted to tell.

Star Wars had elements of fantasy, Westerns, classic hero journey motifs, WWII aerial dogfighting, classic sci-fi adventure like Flash Gordon and so on but that doesn't mean it topped every movie that was ever in each of those genres. It just brought them all together in an ingeniously clever and engaging way that both paid tribute to each respective homage and delivered a level of entertainment that you would expect from each element.

I still like a line one reviewer said about the original Matrix. "It borrows liberally from other stories but always with style." That was what Star Wars did, and The Matrix, and now The Winter Soldier. Avatar tried to do this but was somehow too obvious about it and couldn't transcend its own inspirations.
 
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