Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier (SPOILERS)

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The whole Asgardian thing just bugs me the more it goes on. At first I was understanding on how they "needed" to make it fit in etcbut now I think they should have left what they are more ambiguous instead of just "an alien race". It certainly doesn't explain why Odin and Thor are super powered Asgardians while everyone else is just average Asgardians. There are is no way to explain the Valkyrie, or some of other more supernatural aspects of Thor. I think its kind of like midichlorians; somethings are better left unexplained.

In the first Thor he says he comes from a place where science and magic are one in the same. And according to some dood Jane quoted, magic is just science we don't understand so that is good enough for me! We simply don't get it! :lol
 
I'm extremely excited to see what they do with his character. I'm in no hurry to see him take over as Cap though, I like him as the WS. I really see Captain America as being in the same place TDK was prior to TDKR but without the monkey wrench of Heath's death (knock on wood that Sebastian Stan doesn't off himself anytime soon.) Imagine a TDKR with Heath. That's what we're going to get with Cap 3 IMO.

I just love that Marvel is taking their time with these movies. I kind of figured that Steve and Bucky would end TWS as friends but they did a great job of not rushing and forcing that development. As such TWS had the perfect ending with Bucky walking away from the beach in slow motion and then visiting the Smithsonian. So epic.

I don't entirely agree because the Joker and the Winter Soldier are a far cry from being the same character, the Joker has no point unless he's the most vile of villains. BUT if there's a way for us to get more Winter Soldier, especially as an anti-hero, I am effin IN! Masked, but without the goggles he's the coolest looking villain from Marvel Studios so far so for me, if he can keep that style I will LOVE it.:rock

Only thing though...
when he walks up to Nick Fury when he's crashed his car, honestly? why just not immediately throw a rocket on it? I kinda dislike that sort of inefficiency. They shouldn't have shown Fury getting away. Just immediately blow the whole god damn car up. The Fury reveal would've been cooler that way. If it's the walk up you care about visually, they could've done that with him walking up to the wreckage, with freakin flames framing him.

Then again, I still think Fury should've died, at the least for the remainder of this film.

^ That sort of stuff was the only detracter for me, but it's almost always present in action films, sadly.
 
^ That sort of stuff was the only detracter for me, but it's almost always present in action films, sadly.

I think that's a valid criticism because typically speaking it's one of my pet peeves as well. Bad guy is ultra efficient and kicks ass against a good guy and then gets cocky or nonchalant at the last second and the good guy gets away. It's even worse if the bad guy is an emotionless machine (coughT-1000inthesteelmillcough.) At LEAST in TWS there's really no way that Bucky could have anticipated that Fury could just disappear through the street. So it turned into kind of a cool "ghost vs. ghost" moment. Usually it's the WS who disappears in a cloud of smoke, not his prey.

And of course he made up for it IMO that very same evening by bringing the big guns (literally) to Steve's apartment to try and off Fury for good.
 
Wonder if they will touch on TWS and BW prior relationship? Also what about all the mind control stuff Red Skull and Dr. Faustus were doing in the comics with TWS, Agent 13 and the Senator? Will they incorporate any of that story?
 
I think that's a valid criticism because typically speaking it's one of my pet peeves as well. Bad guy is ultra efficient and kicks ass against a good guy and then gets cocky or nonchalant at the last second and the good guy gets away. It's even worse if the bad guy is an emotionless machine (coughT-1000inthesteelmillcough.) At LEAST in TWS there's really no way that Bucky could have anticipated that Fury could just disappear through the street. So it turned into kind of a cool "ghost vs. ghost" moment. Usually it's the WS who disappears in a cloud of smoke, not his prey.

And of course he made up for it IMO that very same evening by bringing the big guns (literally) to Steve's apartment to try and off Fury for good.

Man, I wish more fans of franchises could respond that reasonable to criticism.:lol

The best accomplishment of Winter Soldier for me is that it's the first MS movie I can genuinely stomach it in. But maybe that's just easier to do when there are no super powers involved and the people engaged are more limited in what they can do.

The idea is that Fury escaped into the sewers I assume? Because you can't actually just dig an entire new cave in a few seconds with just a handheld device, I'm inclined to say.

But yeah, the fact that it seemed HIGHLY unlikely that was gonna get away is en excuse I can stomach, but my respect for MS in general would've been exorbitantly boosted if Winter Soldier had flat-out blown the car up and they'd left us at least until the next marvel film to wonder whether Fury was still alive. WOuld've made the Winter Soldier a BEAST. The man who assassinated Fury. It's that last edge in storytelling I miss to truly say, yeah I'm an all-out fan... It's that inevitable formulaic wall that no matter how far they push it back, it always becomes visible to me again. I wish WS had broken it, I truly do, especially after what they dared pull with the Mandarin, but it just didn't imo. So that's why TWS is a mixed bag on the side of positive for me.

EDIT: Then again I am glad they pretty much acknowledged a true tension for whether Fury was dead wasn't going to make it anyway, so I was relieved they immediately showed him escaping, instead actually trying to make us believe Fury would've been dead. So they didn't break a wall, but they didn't try to hide it either, I guess that's something I appreciate to some extent.
 
I don't think they would go back and establish a BW/WS history. She seemed oblivious to his identity and he has shot her twice.
 
I don't think they would go back and establish a BW/WS history. She seemed oblivious to his identity and he has shot her twice.

Right, but they were still using mind control with him at that point. He is now becoming self aware so they could do a flashback scene, maybe?
 
What irked me about Fury's escape is that how far ahead of the WS really was he?! I mean he cut a hole in the ground and presumably went into sewer system... why didn't TWS just jump in the hole and go after him? An easy enough fix could've been for fury to plant a detonation charge at the mouth of the hole so that it would go off and cave in the entrance to the tunnel.
 
Silrian you don't have to use spoiler tags anymore. The thread is now open to spoilers. :)

But you guys are right, the WS definitely *could* have rolled one of his cool silver grenades into Fury's SUV or chased a very wounded man down into the sewers. Of course at that point the WS might have determined that Fury is proving to be much more resourceful than they had anticipated and didn't want to walk into an ambush down below.

Either way it's definitely a bit of an "action movie" cliche for Fury to have escaped the way he did. I forgive it. :D
 
I love the single-minded precision with which the WS carried out his missions. He could have blown away Steve and Sharon in the apartment but Pierce didn't know if Cap was a threat yet so he only sent him after Fury. Even when Steve chased WS and threw his shield Bucky was all "nope," caught it, and simply threw it back. No wasted time. No grudge against anyone chasing him. Just complete the mission and get out of dodge. Awesome.
 
What irked me about Fury's escape is that how far ahead of the WS really was he?! I mean he cut a hole in the ground and presumably went into sewer system... why didn't TWS just jump in the hole and go after him? An easy enough fix could've been for fury to plant a detonation charge at the mouth of the hole so that it would go off and cave in the entrance to the tunnel.
Like Khev says, it was for the good of the story. Most films have moments like this somewhere along the way. The trick is in not making the audience distracted by it (something MOS horribly failed at, at least in the case of this moviegoer). That thought actually crossed my mind, as well--seriously injured SLJ vs. height of physical prowess killing machine in perfect working order in a sewer chase? I wonder who would win that one? But I wrote it off as part of the story and had no real problems doing so. Also, the sniper scene should realistically have had WS shooting Fury in the head or some vital organ if he wanted to guarantee death, but apparently it wasn't enough, so again you see the ineptitude of WS for the purpose of the story they wanted to tell.
 
Imagine if there was no sewer under Fury's SUV when he tried to escape and that when the WS ripped off the door he found Fury sitting in a five foot deep hole in the ground. That would have been really awkward.
 
They aren't gonna do theBW WS history in the 70' since they aren't doing the infinity formula. Plus Zola said she was born in '84 so that helps confirm that. I really really thought they were gonna go into their history though. Maybe the infinity formula is just too far fetched for the films. Even Fury has it himself
 
Imagine if there was no sewer under Fury's SUV when he tried to escape and that when the WS ripped off the door he found Fury sitting in a five foot deep hole in the ground. That would have been really awkward.

If Winter had shot him right in the face we'd have a lot of very traumatised 10 year olds on our hands now.:rotfl

I can stomach the action cliches that are unrealistic of real combat by viewing this as a movie primarily targeted at young adults. It's prime priority clearly isn't realism, but to be badass. Same with THE street action scene where Cap fights the gunners. The guys just keep shooting his shield it's completely retarded when you think about it, they see their fellow gunmen being shot down by reflecting bullets, any guy with a brain would aim for Cap's legs, but they consistently aim exactly to his chest where his shield is, just so he can walk up to one and put him down in a cool way. In that entire time Winter Soldier could've constantly shot him in the back, tick two bullets, lungs and brain, done. The way he conveniently almost always gets his shield back to him again, same deal: it's being cool over being realistic. Which is fine, it's a stylistic choice, but isn't in any way impressively realistic.

Because of the way people engage this film and many talk about it, I mean, I'm not sure which of the major action franchises hold up against it when you start counting, but overall I'm inclined to say people are a bit overstating it in praising this film as a general adult action film (which are sadly often worse than this one, that I will say). Honestly, in terms of action realism the Bourne films are all three better than this one imo. It's a great movie especially for young audiences, but this is not like 'the best action movie ever' in any objective sense. That it's a lot of people's new favourite action film, like my favourite action film is still the matrix, even though the matrix is also a lot of style over realism, that I fully understand and respect. But on a critical level you can't really say this film is a realistic action film. And I personally would've loved it if it had been (more so).

I'm also kinda at a point where I find Steve Rogers, the man from the past, awesome, and yet I still find captain america cheesy. I wish he would've just kept the shield and continued on as SHIELD Agent Steve Rogers, I really don't care for the guy being called captain america or wearing that suit, but not being american probably has a lot to do with that. Clearly it serves the fans that he still does, which is fine. But I kinda just see him in my mind as Agent Rogers.
 
I agree on the guys not shooting his legs, I actually thought about that while watching the movie. Just one of those things. But I never trumpeted it as being awesome because every scene is ultra-realistic or anything. My motto for movies like this is "make it real or make it cool." As long as they do either one at any given time I'm good. Even after two viewings I couldn't tell if he was making the bullets ricochet off his shield and hit the other guys or was that just Sam Wilson picking them off from above?
 
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