Captain America: Civil War (May 6, 2016)

[IrishJedi]

I think it has more to do with the fact that nobody remembers TIH and even Marvel wants you to forget it

Yeah, that's my problem. Not Ross himself (like has been said, he's always been an a-hole). I wanted someone to call him on it. Clearly some of these characters (especially Stark and almost surely Black Widow) know he's pulled way worse **** than the Avengers. Someone should have said something (particularly relating to the events in NYC and on the campus in TIH) as soon as he started showing those video feeds.

 

[jye4ever]

But Blonsky was responsible for Abomination, not Ross.

What Ross did to Blonsky was no different than what the US government did to Rogers.

Sure Ross wanted to weaponize, but he's a general, that's what he does.

Had Cap or Stark thrown Harlem in Ross's face he would've had an easy explanation out.

Would've been an unecessary plot device.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

Yeah, that's my problem. Not Ross himself (like has been said, he's always been an a-hole). I wanted someone to call him on it. Clearly some of these characters (especially Stark and almost surely Black Widow) know he's pulled way worse **** than the Avengers. Someone should have said something (particularly relating to the events in NYC and on the campus in TIH) as soon as he started showing those video feeds.

I was thinking the same thing about Ross, but as others said, it fit the character. And it wouldn't have made since for Tony to bring it up because he was already on board and Widow was leaning towards signing the accords anyway. I'm not sure if any of the other characters would have known that he was the one that have Blonsky the serum anyhow.

 

[IrishJedi]

But Blonsky was responsible for Abomination, not Ross.

What Ross did to Blonsky was no different than what the US government did to Rogers.

Sure Ross wanted to weaponize, but he's a general, that's what he does.

Had Cap or Stark thrown Harlem in Ross's face he would've had an easy explanation out.

Would've been an unecessary plot device.

The NYC, Washington DC and Sokovia events were also all the fault of villains (with the probably exception of Sokovia, since Stark did create Ultron).

It's basically the same thing. Ross is an ******* and did ******* things that destroyed property and got people killed. They absolutely should have thrown it in his face, especially since he was preaching with sanctimony. In fact, Cap could have even used it to further his point... That while there was collateral damage during the Avengers events, it was because they choose to HELP and SAVE people, whereas during the Hulk events people died and stuff was destroyed because soldiers were "just following orders". That actually helps support Steve's POV!

Missed opportunity. It doesn't spoil the film, but it does stand out (to me). That entire conversation with Ross rings pretty hollow, because I feel like it should have at least been addressed.

 

[IrishJedi]

I was thinking the same thing about Ross, but as others said, it fit the character. And it wouldn't have made since for Tony to bring it up because he was already on board and Widow was leaning towards signing the accords anyway. I'm not sure if any of the other characters would have known that he was the one that have Blonsky the serum anyhow.

It also makes you wonder why Stark would ever trust Ross at all.

They should have just had a different character in that role, if even just a new government stooge. Using Ross there is problematic for these reasons.

 

[karamazov80]

Ross is the personification of hypocrisy.

So, just like a real politician, good job Marvel.

Yeah, I actually like that it was dodged. He's not a heroic character. In the comics, he has an irrational hatred of Hulk that goes well beyond simply wanting to protect people. If Banner were there, I would have expected him to bring it up, though.

 

[karamazov80]

It also makes you wonder why Stark would ever trust Ross at all.

Well Ross is just the messenger. This was a UN resolution, spurred on by Wakanda as much as anyone else.

 

[IrishJedi]

It would just have been better (and stronger) if someone had pointed out the hypocrisy is all.

But perhaps they felt that would make the Stark position even weaker? And certainly Cap's much stronger.

It was just an odd choice having Ross be the main tourchbearer got the Accords without his own misdeeds coming into the conversation in some way. But I suppose it would make any characters not siding with Rogers look like even bigger morons.

And Ross isn't just a messenger. He's enforcing the Accords and runs what should be a completely illegal prison in the middle of the ocean.

 

[Starscream Soundwave]

Ah, that's it. Film completely ruined for me.


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[GasparZizou]

It was odd to see Stark being such a pushover, it made sense because he was riddled with guilt but still, it was weird.

I'm glad he didn't give a **** at the end.

 

[meanstreak]

It was odd to see Stark being such a pushover, it made sense because he was riddled with guilt but still, it was weird.

I'm glad he didn't give a **** at the end.

Yeah, I found it pretty odd too... but I guess the character went back to what we'd expect from him by the end of the film.

 

[karamazov80]

And Ross isn't just a messenger. He's enforcing the Accords and runs what should be a completely illegal prison in the middle of the ocean.

That's true that he is helping to enforce the Resolution. But in Marvel fantasyland, where the UN actually has teeth, I'm assuming that prison would be aboveboard, in the same way that the International Criminal Court has a sanctioned prison.

 

[IrishJedi]

It was odd to see Stark being such a pushover, it made sense because he was riddled with guilt but still, it was weird.

I'm glad he didn't give a **** at the end.

Yeah, he started off completely on the wrong side of the Accords thing, but had a pretty cool arc in the film and I like where it ended with him, including the rare vulnerability when he loses control after seeing the footage of his parents' assassination. Good stuff.

 

[IrishJedi]

That's true that he is helping to enforce the Resolution. But in Marvel fantasyland, where the UN actually has teeth, I'm assuming that prison would be aboveboard, in the same way that the International Criminal Court has a sanctioned prison.

True. But, again, if that prison is above board it absolutely nails down the point that Cap was definitely in the right from the very beginning (which is likely the point anyway) and that the UN in the MCU is not to be trusted.

I also like that Black Panther/Wakanda does a 180 at the end. "Let them try".

 

[karamazov80]

Why does the prison mean that the UN shouldn't be trusted? If an international law is passed that is enforceable, and if someone breaks that law, then they should be punished as the law states. I'm assuming imprisonment is outlined in the Resolution.

 

[jye4ever]

I found Stark to be more cunning, if it was his intention or not he definately played his "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" cards much better than Cap did.

Not that I expected Cap to waiver in any manner.

 

[IrishJedi]

Why does the prison mean that the UN shouldn't be trusted? If an international law is passed that is enforceable, and if someone breaks that law, then they should be punished as the law states. I'm assuming imprisonment is outlined in the Resolution.

Ross' prison makes Guantanamo look like a Disney Resort.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

Yeah, how was Wanda supposed to go to the bathroom chained up like that?

 

[daikkenaurora]

Yeah, how was Wanda supposed to go to the bathroom chained up like that?

She could use her powers and form her #1 into a ball or something. Same with her #2. It's #3 I'm worried about.

 

[guy66657]

I don't think they talked about this but I'm assuming Wanda had a power dampener collar on her at the end, yeah? Or else she'd just reality warp everyone out of there. XD I'm pretty damn sure she was literally ****ing with Vision's powers and the mind gem that way. I Refuuuuse the whole plain telekinesis and mind control powers. Plus the Russo's teased a fully powered comic book Wanda in Infinity War so I'm still hoping for it!

Plus, back to this topic but I thought Bendis' New Avengers was actually really good. It's probably my favorite team of heroes and I'm glad almost everyone in that team is basically in the movies and shows now. Just give me Jessica Drew and I can die happy. Carol can't go on without her bestie! Dark Avengers was fantastic though, along with House of M and I don't think Secret Invasion was as bad as everyone thought it was. The only problem o have with Bendis is that he can ramble a little too long or even have some cringeworthy awkward small bouts of dialogue but I think there's a sweet spot for Bendis.