Captain America movie is next

[Hew]

Very eloquently put, Anzik.

Agreed, very well put.

 

[Anzik]

I have read Captain America since 1978. I loved this comic and especially the character, and the main thing was that he always was distanced from the government. My father was a veteran of WWII that fought in the European theater and Captain America comics was one of the first things that made me feel connected to part of his life and awakened my knowledge of just how evil people can be to each other.
I don't believe any government is altruistic or anything more than full of self serving opportunists. What people need to do is work on eradicating the fear that drives reactionary impulses. I would like to see a representation that that addresses many of the issues that divide us. The wonderful thing about comic books is that you can play 'what if' and 'wouldn't it be great if' stories. The great thing about Captain America stories were his soap box moments. He's not the Punisher or Wolverine that just dispatches the bad guy. He defeats the threat and STANDS for a better way than violence. More than anything else Captain America has stood for what is best in humanity. I can't tell you how many times he was depicted dispersing a mob of everyday people about to lynch someone out of ignorance.
I don't want to see a Captain America story that says "USA all the way!!" I want a Captain America that causes us to look at everything around us and recognize our own stupidity as well as the evil that happens. I want Captain America that recognizes the faults of the media. The media likes to appear as soldiers fighting for truth, but the reality is "if it bleeds, it leads" because that sells. People pay more attention to what frightens them which is why here we see death tolls and Al Jazeera type channels show the US and the west as demonic decadants. They manipulate the masses into fear. The fear screams at the government to do something and they do. They do SOMETHING but rarely the RIGHT thing. I would like a Captain America story that portrays the US government for what it is, and the media for what it is and most importantly the villain for who they are. The terrorist is NOT the average middle eastern man. Who is the terrorist? What seperates him from the average Muslim from the Middle East? Do all Muslims feel this way? Why is there no outcry from the Muslim community denouncing terrorist behavior in the name of God? I know there are some but the mainstream media never covers it.
Personally I believe the radical is using the religon as his vehicle for power. He is more than willing to say "Lets go get them together" as he straps a bomb to someone and sends him off alone. After 911 I had a very heated arguement with an openly racist coworker over my Dunkin Donuts coffee, because I purchased coffee from THEM. He couldn't understand THEY were from INDIA. This is another example of American laziness of the videogame generation that if you get bored at the details after 5 minutes you walk away.
Too often we don't see the cost of war. We tune in and see the funerals of soldiers and the immediate aftermath, but we don't see the tears of the families of those that died. Unfortunately, there is evil in the world and sometimes it leads to war. One of my father's duties during the war, was to get the displaced peoples off of the roads so that military divisions could get to where they needed to go. He showed me pictures he took of nearly 200 murdered Jews, that were burned and shot. At 11 years old I would read my Captain America stories and ask him "Dad was it really this bad?" to hear "No it was much worse." I believe Saddam Hussein was thoroughly evil and I think the world is better off without him. I think Iraq will be better off with a free democratic society. I wish that such things could be done without bloodshed. I wish that we could know how many Iraqis want the new government and US help and how many want us out. I wish we could know exactly who our enemies are.
I wish the world could read Captain America comics and see that for the most part Americans want to share the prosperity and freedom that we enjoy. I wish everyone in America would read Captain America comics to see how stupid bigotry is.
In the need these are all just my wishes for the world which means they are pretty much useless. We have the world we have and we need to make our way through it, mistakes and all. I felt I needed to clarify my post, because I don't believe our nation acts wonderful all the time. I think our citizens have a long way to go in many areas (myself included), but at the same time I don't think that spreading freedom and democracy around the world is bad either. In fact I think that the reason the 'terrorist' fears it, is because it will take away his power of fear.

 

[IrishJedi]

I just know they'll screw this up by having him wear some kind of armor or something.

 

[Spliff]

I happen to think it's pretty closed-minded people assume this or that about Islam. Funny thing is, they're not much different than the Christians fighting them, completely ironic...and a bit hilarious. I don't get where America comes off as being a moral enforcer for the world. It's just a different culture, and something we don't follow...so who are we to tell anyone how they should be living? Especially our own fellow Americans?

That being said, I love the Cap cos he stands for what America is SUPPOSED to be, and not what it's turned into. And THAT, IMO, is what they movie should be centered on. Rodgers. Have the politics, propoganda, and pro-american stuff be minor points to the story...the focus should be about why Steve did what he did, and why he does what he does.

 

[minivader]

I have read Captain America since 1978. I loved this comic and especially the character, and the main thing was that he always was distanced from the government. My father was a veteran of WWII that fought in the European theater and Captain America comics was one of the first things that made me feel connected to part of his life and awakened my knowledge of just how evil people can be to each other.
I don't believe any government is altruistic or anything more than full of self serving opportunists. What people need to do is work on eradicating the fear that drives reactionary impulses. I would like to see a representation that that addresses many of the issues that divide us. The wonderful thing about comic books is that you can play 'what if' and 'wouldn't it be great if' stories. The great thing about Captain America stories were his soap box moments. He's not the Punisher or Wolverine that just dispatches the bad guy. He defeats the threat and STANDS for a better way than violence. More than anything else Captain America has stood for what is best in humanity. I can't tell you how many times he was depicted dispersing a mob of everyday people about to lynch someone out of ignorance.
I don't want to see a Captain America story that says "USA all the way!!" I want a Captain America that causes us to look at everything around us and recognize our own stupidity as well as the evil that happens. I want Captain America that recognizes the faults of the media. The media likes to appear as soldiers fighting for truth, but the reality is "if it bleeds, it leads" because that sells. People pay more attention to what frightens them which is why here we see death tolls and Al Jazeera type channels show the US and the west as demonic decadants. They manipulate the masses into fear. The fear screams at the government to do something and they do. They do SOMETHING but rarely the RIGHT thing. I would like a Captain America story that portrays the US government for what it is, and the media for what it is and most importantly the villain for who they are. The terrorist is NOT the average middle eastern man. Who is the terrorist? What seperates him from the average Muslim from the Middle East? Do all Muslims feel this way? Why is there no outcry from the Muslim community denouncing terrorist behavior in the name of God? I know there are some but the mainstream media never covers it.
Personally I believe the radical is using the religon as his vehicle for power. He is more than willing to say "Lets go get them together" as he straps a bomb to someone and sends him off alone. After 911 I had a very heated arguement with an openly racist coworker over my Dunkin Donuts coffee, because I purchased coffee from THEM. He couldn't understand THEY were from INDIA. This is another example of American laziness of the videogame generation that if you get bored at the details after 5 minutes you walk away.
Too often we don't see the cost of war. We tune in and see the funerals of soldiers and the immediate aftermath, but we don't see the tears of the families of those that died. Unfortunately, there is evil in the world and sometimes it leads to war. One of my father's duties during the war, was to get the displaced peoples off of the roads so that military divisions could get to where they needed to go. He showed me pictures he took of nearly 200 murdered Jews, that were burned and shot. At 11 years old I would read my Captain America stories and ask him "Dad was it really this bad?" to hear "No it was much worse." I believe Saddam Hussein was thoroughly evil and I think the world is better off without him. I think Iraq will be better off with a free democratic society. I wish that such things could be done without bloodshed. I wish that we could know how many Iraqis want the new government and US help and how many want us out. I wish we could know exactly who our enemies are.
I wish the world could read Captain America comics and see that for the most part Americans want to share the prosperity and freedom that we enjoy. I wish everyone in America would read Captain America comics to see how stupid bigotry is.
In the need these are all just my wishes for the world which means they are pretty much useless. We have the world we have and we need to make our way through it, mistakes and all. I felt I needed to clarify my post, because I don't believe our nation acts wonderful all the time. I think our citizens have a long way to go in many areas (myself included), but at the same time I don't think that spreading freedom and democracy around the world is bad either. In fact I think that the reason the 'terrorist' fears it, is because it will take away his power of fear.

I agree with most of what is said, however, not all terrorist are middle easterners. There are europeans, asians, and of course, american terrorists. And I do think most of the media today only cover the middle eastern terrorist groups and negelected the ones in our own society that thirves in democratic nations.

Captain america, much like superman, is a symbol, perhaps he exist to inspire people of the world to look for better ways to resolve problems big or small, but I do feel that if that is captain america's goal, then the name captain america is a wrong choice because that name limits his action to what an american or americans do. Of course, other people can be inspired regardless of nationality, but once you identify yourself with a particular nation, then you have to carry whatever stereotype that nation has with the name.

for example, captain nazi might rescue innocent people from burning buildings everyday, and saves many life from danger, but once you hear captain "nazi", its pretty much a guaranty that captain nazi is gonna be branded evil. Even if he has no ties to the actual nazi or whatever. and before anyone argues that individual actions are what counts, you gotta understand that in democratic society, your government represents you, so even if you agree or disagree with what the goevernment does or is planning to do, for better or worse, what they do is what you want.

Anyways, to bring this back to the subject, I do wish the movie can portray captain america as an inspiration and not a "america all the way" kinda movie. perhaps it is best to set the stage in WWII, when there really is a visible evil enermy that captain america can face. In today's society, its way too hard to define your enemies.

 

[IrishJedi]

I happen to think it's pretty closed-minded people assume this or that about Islam. Funny thing is, they're not much different than the Christians fighting them.

You might want to do some more reading up on the 2 religions, particularly Islam.

 

[Spliff]

You might want to do some more reading up on the 2 religions, particularly Islam.

I know plenty.

 

[Rook]

Captain america, much like superman, is a symbol, perhaps he exist to inspire people of the world to look for better ways to resolve problems big or small, but I do feel that if that is captain america's goal, then the name captain america is a wrong choice because that name limits his action to what an american or americans do.

Your argument is more than a little contradictory here. As you pointed out, Captain America is a symbol. You were right about that.

Where you went wrong was to assume that he was a symbol of the American people. That's simply not the case. He is, essentially, a symbol of American ideals, those upon which the country was founded. Freedom. Liberty. Democracy. Free enterprise. The melting pot. Justice. Etcetera.

In other words, he is a symbol not of what America is, but what America can and should be.

Take a closer look, also, at your Captain Nazi analogy. The Nazis (a political party, by the way, not a nation), essentially, were fascists who took advantage of the fears of their countrymen to form a police state that was the antithesis of freedom. A Captain Nazi would have to be firm, dicatatorial, intollerant and intractable in order to honestly represent what that party stood for. A Captain Germany, on the other hand, would likely be a much more congenial character...

In short, don't let a few bad apples ruin the Captain America basket for you. Just alter your perceptions. Fifty years ago, the American name was synonymous of a greater good. An argument can be made that we've lost sight of those ideals, especially in recent years. But, absent as they may be in some of the governments current policy, those ideals still exist. They need to be rediscovered, and people need to gravitate toward them. Captain America was good for that once. He could be very good at that now.

If, that is, the movie folks give him the opportunity.

 

[Rook]

I forgot to add that this is why the death of Captain America is such a strong statement from the folks at Marvel. The death of that symbol is clearly a metaphorical statement that those great notions and ideals which Captain America represented are also dead.

The fact that his murderer was a U.S. government agent (who also happened to be his girlfriend), unwittingly manipulated into doing so by his facist nemesis, The Red Skull, who shares a mind with the CEO of corporate giant Roxxon, is also a very strong statement. And it's also worth thinking about.

 

[minivader]

Your argument is more than a little contradictory here. As you pointed out, Captain America is a symbol. You were right about that.

Where you went wrong was to assume that he was a symbol of the American people. That's simply not the case. He is, essentially, a symbol of American ideals, those upon which the country was founded. Freedom. Liberty. Democracy. Free enterprise. The melting pot. Justice. Etcetera.

In other words, he is a symbol not of what America is, but what America can and should be.

no offense, monk, but a soldier created to win WWII doesn't exactly express america idealism to me. and its pretty rare to read a CA story where he does not use his fist to solve the problem. Dont get me wrong, I like the character. I just have some nits with his identity.

BTW, what apples are you talking about?

I forgot to add that this is why the death of Captain America is such a strong statement from the folks at Marvel. The death of that symbol is clearly a metaphorical statement that those great notions and ideals which Captain America represented are also dead.

The fact that his murderer was a U.S. government agent (who also happened to be his girlfriend), unwittingly manipulated into doing so by his facist nemesis, The Red Skull, who shares a mind with the CEO of corporate giant Roxxon, is also a very strong statement. And it's also worth thinking about.

I would totally agree as long as Marvel does not bring him back like DC did superman.

 

[Rook]

I would totally agree as long as Marvel does not bring him back like DC did superman.

No doubt. As much of a fan as I am of the Steve Rogers character, at least his death had meaning. Bringing him back would cheapen that.

I'd be more interested in seeing the character revived with a different person putting on the mask, going out and trying to discover those ideals in this modern America, searching for something in the country's soul that is worth fighting for. Symbols are like gods. If there's no one there to follow a god, then the god has no power. The same holds true for a torch-bearer like Cap.

No offense taken, by the way. I'm not thin-skinned in the slightest.

As for you question about bad apples, that's asking for specifics that I'm not willing to get into here. Feathers don't need ruffling on the Freaks board.

EDIT: I forgot to respond to the first part of your last post...

While it's true that Cap was created as a character used to win WWII, his true purpose was to provide a symbol for what was worth fighting for. One man, even a super-soldier, won't make that big of a difference in battle against an entire army. But one man, working as a symbol of something greater, can inspire others to fight for his cause. That's the magic of Captain America, and that's why he was so important as an asset in WWII. Not because he was something to fight with. But because he gave everyone else something to fight for.

 

[Hew]

I happen to think it's pretty closed-minded people assume this or that about Islam. Funny thing is, they're not much different than the Christians fighting them, completely ironic...and a bit hilarious.

I'm going to break form my previous line of discussion, which has only been about Cap trivia. Just for a sec.

The above might have been true during the 1400s; every religion does have skeletons in the closet. But this is not the 1400s, it's not the Inquisition.

Today radical Islam is a threat, not radical Christianity as it may have been in the past. So when someone makes an irresponsible remark like the one above, I don't get angry, I don't get upset, I actually become concerned at the passive acceptance of radical Islam.

Conflicts are not always simple. You can't say its Christians vs. Islam; this would be what they call over generalizing. It's like saying this 1 billion of believers against that 1 billion – not that simple. You have to separate the Muslims and the Islamist, you know…the people wanting to blow you and me up.

This link illustrates the Muslim/Islamists dichotomy - https://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/06/exclusive_suici.html

 

[Agent0028]

He is, essentially, a symbol of American ideals, those upon which the country was founded. Freedom. Liberty. Democracy. Free enterprise. The melting pot. Justice. Etcetera.

Just to point it out...we're not a democracy, we never were. We're a Republic, always have been.

 

[Rook]

Just to point it out...we're not a democracy, we never were. We're a Republic, always have been.

Didn't say we were. But we were founded on the principles of democracy, as most good republics are.

 

[Agent0028]

Oops, sorry, I see now, it just went flying over my head before. The whole notion of us being a democracy is one of my pet peeves so I guess I'm letting it get to be a bit too big where I'm missing the forest for the trees. Thanks for the reality check.

 

[Rook]

Oops, sorry, I see now, it just went flying over my head before. The whole notion of us being a democracy is one of my pet peeves so I guess I'm letting it get to be a bit too big where I'm missing the forest for the trees. Thanks for the reality check.

I understand. Lengthy posts can be a lot to take in. Especially when we're in a rush to move on and start talking about important things. Like movies and polystone.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Skimmed the above - sorry if this has been covered.

But what I think would be so interesting about a Cap movie is the "man out of time" aspect. He has been created in a black and white world (and I hope they do some kind of color treatment so the WWII footage looks different than modern day). In WWII, evil is evil and the fate of the world literally rests on the Allieds winning the war.

But with Cap waking up in the modern world where everything isn't so clear cut he'll have to struggle to figure out what he really stands for and what he must do to function.

Or course you could argue that we're living in just a black and white world - if the terrorists were better funded and organized they might just be able to pose a similar threat that Hitler posed. They have similar goals as he did anyway.

 

[Anzik]

I would like to add a couple things:
1) A comic without fighting is called Archie.
2) Cap is just a human at his full potential, no super powers. His greatest strength was to lead and inspire others.

America itself is in a bit of a slump. We need to refocus on the important things as a society. We need to get back to values of what is right and what is wrong and stop making excuses for bad behavior or worse saying its ok from a certain point of view. We need to stop celebrating bad behavior. We suck down huge doses of Paris, Britney and Lindsay which thankfully seems to be repulsing people lately. Reality shows like Big Brother and Survivor thrive on betrayal and deceit, the worst human traits. We suffer from a generation of doing what feels good instead of what is right. Making decisions based on emotion is never a good idea. Thats why so many marriages are in the crapper. "I'm not happy..." Its been 10 years but I don't recall 'happy' being among the vows. Happiness is finding $20 in your jeans, and unhappy is finding your $20 is gone. Happy and unhappy come and go, but commitment should remain. Thats what Captain America is about. Doing whats right until the end.

What I hated about the death of Cap storyline is that Sharon Carter was already brainwashed and "killed" by Dr. Faustus in the National Force storyline back in the early 80's written by Roger Stern and drawn by Sal Buscema. A great story that I highly recomend.