Children of Hurin Discussion Thread

[carbo-fation]

Hi Captain Faramir, Well, haven't been on the board very much lately so that is why you haven't heard much from me. Yes, it was awesome when Aragorn sung that line in ROTK, I recognized it right away. That was one of my favorite scenes. That is Quenya of course. I think it was great that throughout the entire trilogy of films much Elvish was spoken.

Namarie!

I love your peom! It was just incredible. I am really glad we have an Elvish scholar amongst us. Do you have any more poems of your own?

For anyone wanting to read Daveyjaro's poem, here it is:

Tindome

Sinda hisie, nar, huine, cuivieesse.
Vanya Ondolinde lante; serke untupa ilye.
Astaldo hir lante nuin ninque minas.
Autan tara, saure minasi.
Morgoth Bauglir pela I nore anga quare.
Ranan hyarmen; aiyan I quelle meni.
Doriath aldari nallar an vanwa Tinuviel.

Ele! Earendil sila formenesse.
Elen silmaril undulava I lumbule.
Tuile enteluva kemenesse.
Ai! I ear untupa vanye norer oio.
Si autan tenn’ I numen; Tuna Eldamar.


Twilight of the Evening

Gray mist, fire, gloom in awakening.
Fair Gondolin fell; blood covers all.
Valiant Lord fell under white tower.
I pass lofty, abhorrent towers.
Morgoth Bauglir encircles the land iron fist.
I wander south; I behold the fading regions.
Doriath trees cry for lost Tinuviel.

Behold! Earendil shines in north.
Star Silmaril drowns the shadow.
Spring shall come again from earth.
Alas! The sea covers fair lands everlastingly,
Now I pass unto the West; Tuna Elvenhome.

 

[gtb]

I love your peom! It was just incredible. I am really glad we have an Elvish scholar amongst us. Do you have any more poems of your own?

For anyone wanting to read Daveyjaro's poem, here it is:

Daveyjaro:
Simply INCREDIBLE! What a true Tolkien fan you are. How did you manage to learn that? You have read languages too in your varsity days? perhaps a foreign tongue, so perhaps learning a language may not be too formidable task to you as it is to me.

The intonations of the language has a mystical feel to it, thats why I love it so much!

Hopefully one day at least I can learn to read it..

I have read till Chapter 13 now.... the story has been great so far..somehow I believe that it is in a "more readable form" in the modern context after it is edited by CT?

[Beware! SPOILER AHEAD]

I particularly like the character Beleg Strongbow, Alan Lee should have drawn a picture of him. I imagine him to be tall and has a hardened face - a litte like King Theoden (as in the movie), but with a great pose holding his bow. As it is written, the paragraph

Thus ended Beleg Strongbow, truest of friends, greatest in skill of all that haboured in the woods of Beleriand in the Elder Days, at the hand of him whom he most loved; and that griedf was graven on the face of Turin and never faded.

I even picture how this scene may look if made into a movie!!

 

[carbo-fation]

[Beware! SPOILER AHEAD]

I particularly like the character Beleg Strongbow, Alan Lee should have drawn a picture of him. I imagine him to be tall and has a hardened face - a litte like King Theoden (as in the movie), but with a great pose holding his bow. As it is written, the paragraph

Thus ended Beleg Strongbow, truest of friends, greatest in skill of all that haboured in the woods of Beleriand in the Elder Days, at the hand of him whom he most loved; and that griedf was graven on the face of Turin and never faded.

I even picture how this scene may look if made into a movie!!

This was the saddest parts for me about the life of Turin. He had a lot of misfortune but this was the one that hit him the hardest.

 

[gtb]

Picture that to be a diaorama! Perhaps the same scale as the recent Aragorn vs Uruk-Hai, we'll have Turin holding his Helm of Galdor, dipping his head, kneeling beside the dead corpose of Beleg at his side. The base should be that of the forest..of course there should be Anglachel and his bow too!

 

[Vader AL]

I received my LOTR Collector's edition today, bought it off ebay for a good price(some pics show off the colors of the engraving, some show off the texture of the cover..sorry need to get a camera that takes better pics in low light). I like the anniversary LOTR one too but it looks more like The Bible and I already have a few of those. Plus, I think these two go great together. :

First there was The Hobbit CE:





Now LOTR CE:

 

[carbo-fation]

Congrats V.AL! Both books look great! Do either of them come with illustrations and images or just the regular maps?

 

[Vader AL]

Congrats V.AL! Both books look great! Do either of them come with illustrations and images or just the regular maps?

the anniv. one comes with more/newer maps i think. the CE one shown above just has one in the back. the hobbit has some illustrations throughout it and a map in the back. these 2 don't have a lot of the bells and whistles that the ann. versions of each have.

 

[gtb]

Wow.... I sorta like your Finger of Sauron better....

 

[Vader AL]

Wow.... I sorta like your Finger of Sauron better....

l love that piece too. a great prop...love the light up ring.

 

[gtb]

Well, it is still selling at my local toy shop.... but my finance is busted now.. I am just glad i can still pay for cable to go online to chat with you guys!

P.S. I didn't even order the latest diaorama....

My humble collection which I have taken a pic ....

 

[gtb]

I have just completed CoH minutes before I made this post, and just a few thoughts of mine in reading the tale.

1. Though there wasn't much individual battle scenes in the book, but I like the way how Tolkien protrayed Evil - in the form of the malice of Morgoth. It is unlike most of the games/movies I have seen recently, where the storyline is rather flat and predictable: A hero is born/raised in adversity, he fight of some of the big bad boss minions and as time goes by, he grew in strength and finally have a final showdown with the Boss. The strength of Morgoth is not protrayed in his power to destroy physical things - but the corruption of human hearts - rather similar to Lucifier that we know of.

2. IMO, should this book be made into a movie, I am afraid it will not reached the "epic" scale of LOTR, the essence of the tale is in the internal torture of Turin, not his epic battle scenes. Though there are still many to be re-created for the movie adapation, it might not be worthwhile from the movie producers point of view. It may end up be another "pathfinder"-grade of movie. And of course I don't deny that it will be much better if heavy investments are made, but how popular is this new book to the masses - compared to LOTR which has been around for ages?

3. From the viewpoint of a collector, I am hoping of the following:

a. A giclee depicting Nienor before she leap off from Deer Leap. Hopefully Alan Lee can do that. This is one part of the tale which I felt much emotions of the sorrow, unfortunately, no drawing is done.

b. A repica of Anglachel / Gurthang, I think there is no mention of the inscription on the sword. This is much like Narsil / Anduril - one is the reforged of another. It is described as a "black sword" in the tale, I believe in the hands of John Howe, it will be re-created beautifully.

c. Helm of Gador. Since it is already drawn by Alan Lee, and so prominently display on the slipcase in the deluxe version. Why not? Who knows, now the UC is revived, it may be made in the future.

d. Diaoramas. There are a few: namely, the death of Beleg (as mentioned in my earlier post), the Death of Glaurung, Hurin on the "throne" on top of Thangorodrim (there is a already a sketch of it by Alan Lee), the death of Morwen with Hurin holding her hand (a sketch at the start of the last chapter)... perhaps many more.

This is my first attempt to actually finish a Tolkien book from the beginning to end.

A great tale indeed! Though I actually think that there are many who may not agree with me.. anyway, these are just my opinion.

 

[Beren]

Finished CoH a few weeks ago and wanted to see what others thought (apparently not many have read it thus far...).

It's 'nice' to have it as a complete tale in one book. OTOH, what I was hoping most from it was to see CT flesh out or finish the story of Hurin! In HoME, there's a whole extra chapter or two on the wanderings of Hurin, after Turin's death, the havoc and ill fortune he brings with him. Nothing of the Nauglamir and Thingol in CoH! So that was very disappointing.

CT states he only used whatever scribbles his father actually wrote, thus preserving authenticity. But come on man, you have studied your father's writings your entire life, you would have been most qualified to add corners here and there. (sigh).

As a Tolkien fan, worth a read, considering the Godawful amounts of money I have spent for this 'hobby', 20 or 30 bucks for the hardcover doesn't raise an eyebrow with me but it felt like quite the rehash. The few parts that seemed new to me and made it worthwhile for me, I looked back after at Unfinished Tales (read that one only once), and there it was, word for word.

And it was a fairly slim read, I almost laughed when I first opened the book and saw the larger font and wider margins.

Also also, thought there'd be more Alan Lee paintings in it. Glad I didn't sucker myself into paying collector's price (currently around $400-500?) for the book signed by CT and Alan Lee.

Beren

 

[woodsy]

Glad I didn't sucker myself into paying collector's price (currently around $400-500?) for the book signed by CT and Alan Lee.

Beren

Year's down the road that $400-$500 will be a mere drop in the bucket. I just offered one of these to the first LOTR fan going to SDCC willing to pre-order the stealth IM for me. Thankfully, there were no takers!

 

[Beren]

Year's down the road that $400-$500 will be a mere drop in the bucket. I just offered one of these to the first LOTR fan going to SDCC willing to pre-order the stealth IM for me. Thankfully, there were no takers!

Whatever man, not that you'd care but you did sink in my esteem after you asked others to get you a copy of the book but when you hauled the books in big time yourself, you were not willing to share. And instead rub it in our faces. (something about you claiming to have gotten 20 books?) :emperor :emperor

And what you refer to as a "mere drop in the bucket" is NOT a sure fire thing. CT is not JRRT. You just might have missed the crescent of the craze. And you COULD be right that it'll go up. I personally think it'll remain at best in the $500-700 range.

Beren

 

[woodsy]

Whatever man, not that you'd care but you did sink in my esteem after you asked others to get you a copy of the book but when you hauled the books in big time yourself, you were not willing to share. And instead rub it in our faces. (something about you claiming to have gotten 20 books?) :emperor :emperor

And what you refer to as a "mere drop in the bucket" is NOT a sure fire thing. CT is not JRRT. You just might have missed the crescent of the craze. And you COULD be right that it'll go up. I personally think it'll remain at best in the $500-700 range.

Beren

Ouch! Well you are right in that I don't care, but you are a bit off the mark with your tirade. I did ask ONE person, who happens to live in NY and who said he would be going to the book signing. However, had I known the book would become so valuable I never would have asked or expected anyone to pick one up for me, especially someone I didn't know.

When it became apparent that it just wasn't going to happen I decided last minute to make the trip myself. I believe you had the same option but decided to spend your money on 6 or 7 SS/W busts and statues instead, so obviously getting your hands on a copy wasn't a priority.

Three days in NYC and about $1200 poorer I managed to leave NY with 12 copies. Was I expecting to get that many copies? Absolutely not, I figured Barnes & Noble would limit each person to 1 or 2 copies at the most. Even if it had only been 1 copy per person I would have been fine with that and would have still gone to NY.

Now although you may want to blame me for the 3 days of heavy rain and flooding in NJ and the NYC area leading up to the book event, I refuse to take any credit. I also refuse to take credit for the poor turnout for the book event because of the weather. As well, I refuse to take the blame for the Event Manager, Erica, deciding mid-way through the event that everyone who wanted 2 extra copies apiece could help themselves.

Now I do apologize if you think I was trying to rub anything in your face as that was never my intention. Perhaps I should have lied and said I only got 1 or 2 copies, would that have made you feel better?

And as for not sharing, you were the only person who ever asked for a copy. A total stranger, who told me he had thought about going but spent his money on busts and statues instead. Congratulations, it takes an awful lot of nerve to ask a total stranger to hand over a $300 book. Something I can assure you I never would have done. Next time, why not just ask me for $300out of my pocket?

 

[Captain Faramir]

SO,

I finally had the chance to get a copy of the book yesterday and I finished it this morning. The story, as are almost all of Tolkien's, is simply beautiful, though certainly more tragic than most. I did however note that there is certainly not the "whole" feeling that his completed works have; I think Tolkien Jr. did a wonderful job in putting this together, but clearly it lacks the refined grace of a book completed by its own author. Nonetheless, I find that to be somewhat fitting for the story--it's supposed to be an ancient legend, one so archaic that even in the time of the War of the Ring, it goes back years without measure. In that sense, the sparse, erratic moments are rather authentic to the fable, if not to the actual novel itself. In any case, it is one of his most compelling stories, poignant and dark, yet as graceful as anything else Tolkien created.

Turin is a powerful character, as are all the others, and I am once again amazed by Tolkien's ability to flesh out his characters in ways that are at once archetypal and unique. The hubris of the main characters isn't trapped in the typical Greek model, nor is it bound to the usual Norse simplicity. And Beleg--one of my favorite Tolkien characters ever. It's beautifully profound. I am very impressed with it, even if it isn't as seamless or new as the other works. Yeah, most of it is reiterated in The Book of Lost Tales and The Silmarillion, but putting it by itself lends an air of dignity and singularity to a story that otherwise is generally lost in the mire of other tales and episodes.

I definitely recommend it after The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, and before The Silmarillion. Oh, and the illustrations are gorgeous.

 

[Beren]

Ouch! Well you are right in that I don't care, but you are a bit off the mark with your tirade. I did ask ONE person, who happens to live in NY and who said he would be going to the book signing. However, had I known the book would become so valuable I never would have asked or expected anyone to pick one up for me, especially someone I didn't know.

When it became apparent that it just wasn't going to happen I decided last minute to make the trip myself. I believe you had the same option but decided to spend your money on 6 or 7 SS/W busts and statues instead, so obviously getting your hands on a copy wasn't a priority.

Three days in NYC and about $1200 poorer I managed to leave NY with 12 copies. Was I expecting to get that many copies? Absolutely not, I figured Barnes & Noble would limit each person to 1 or 2 copies at the most. Even if it had only been 1 copy per person I would have been fine with that and would have still gone to NY.

Now although you may want to blame me for the 3 days of heavy rain and flooding in NJ and the NYC area leading up to the book event, I refuse to take any credit. I also refuse to take credit for the poor turnout for the book event because of the weather. As well, I refuse to take the blame for the Event Manager, Erica, deciding mid-way through the event that everyone who wanted 2 extra copies apiece could help themselves.

Now I do apologize if you think I was trying to rub anything in your face as that was never my intention. Perhaps I should have lied and said I only got 1 or 2 copies, would that have made you feel better?

And as for not sharing, you were the only person who ever asked for a copy. A total stranger, who told me he had thought about going but spent his money on busts and statues instead. Congratulations, it takes an awful lot of nerve to ask a total stranger to hand over a $300 book. Something I can assure you I never would have done. Next time, why not just ask me for $300out of my pocket?

Talk about a tirade, WOW. The pot calling the kettle... ?

But I can oblige:

Fine, if you travelled to NYC for this expressly, sure, you deserve what you got, I won't deny that. I thought you lived in NYC, my mistake. If you went through $1200 to get your own copy, kudos to you. And congrats to your good luck, truly. I decided it was silly to fly to NYC from Toronto, Canada, spend a few days in a hotel to get an autographed book from a man who won't even acknowledge the efforts of Jackson & Team. (and let's face it, if not for Jackson and Weta, we would not be on this forum and that book would probably never have been released).

For that money I would be close to getting the SSW Cave Troll statue. You're right, I did make a choice of 8 SSW items over a signed book (thanks KitFisto! :chew). And I could still get that signed book now for less than it would have cost me to travel there to get it in person.

But let's set the record straight: at the time (April 20, 3 days after the book's release) I wrote THIS (and my impression being that you scored 20 copies) :

"Hey Woodsy, you were asking for WetaWork's kindness in getting you a copy at cost plus maybe a lil' extra for the effort, are you willing to return that generosity to the members here?"

Are you two best friends or something? I didn't ask you to hand anything over for free. Considering the goodwill of some outstanding members here, I didn't even realize I was working up any nerves to ask that. This was a fellow collector looking for an item for its 'sentimental', not FINANCIAL value. WetaWork put me on his "Top Ten list" and he doesn't know me from Adam.

I never thought you had any kind of obligation to hand over anything, but to see a guy ask someone else to get him a copy and he himself ends up with 20 (OK, so it was 12, guess I read/remembered that wrong) and then doesn't return that kind of sentiment, well that smacks of hypocrisy to me. But that's just me. You making a comment about $400-500 for the signed book being a drop in the bucket, after I stated my contentment for not shelling out that kind of money for what I feel is merely a repackaged book, just couldn't keep my fingers still after that.

Beren

P.S. If the signed book reaches a market value of $1000 within the next year, I will put my 12" Aragorn Exclusive up in flames. You got anything to back up your words of $500 being a "drop in the bucket"?

 

[woodsy]

Talk about a tirade, WOW. The pot calling the kettle... ?

Mine wasn't a tirade at all. It wasn't done in anger, I was simply countering some of the inaccuracies in your statement.

Fine, if you travelled to NYC for this expressly, sure, you deserve what you got, I won't deny that. I thought you lived in NYC, my mistake. If you went through $1200 to get your own copy, kudos to you. And congrats to your good luck, truly. I decided it was silly to fly to NYC from Toronto, Canada, spend a few days in a hotel to get an autographed book from a man who won't even acknowledge the efforts of Jackson & Team. (and let's face it, if not for Jackson and Weta, we would not be on this forum and that book would probably never have been released).

The shame of it all is had I known, or had you expressed any type of interest in going to NYC on this forum I would have gladly volunteered to bring you along. As for Christopher Tolkein, your absolutely right. Let's face it, the guy sounds like a real dick. But whether you love him or hate him, he was instrumental in putting JRR's final book into print form.

For that money I would be close to getting the SSW Cave Troll statue. You're right, I did make a choice of 8 SSW items over a signed book (thanks KitFisto! :chew). And I could still get that signed book now for less than it would have cost me to travel there to get it in person.

Can't argue with you there, the cave troll statue is one of my favorites and if I didn't already own one and I had the choice between NYC and the cave troll, no doubt which one I'd go with. And yes, you can get the book for cheaper than going there in person.

I never thought you had any kind of obligation to hand over anything, but to see a guy ask someone else to get him a copy and he himself ends up with 20 (OK, so it was 12, guess I read/remembered that wrong) and then doesn't return that kind of sentiment, well that smacks of hypocrisy to me.But that's just me.

The difference being I asked him before this thing took off. Before they ever announced there would only be 450. At a time when Barnes and Noble were allowing 5 per person. I had no idea at the time these things would take off, and if I had have, I wouldn't have asked for one in the first place. And when I did ask, I did I say I would pay him whatever he wanted for the book.

You making a comment about $400-500 for the signed book being a drop in the bucket, after I stated my contentment for not shelling out that kind of money for what I feel is merely a repackaged book, just couldn't keep my fingers still after that.

I was merely stating my opinion that someday this book will be worthy alot of money. I was not trying to offend you or anyone else. You only have to look at what some rare collectible books sell for these days to understand why I have this opinion. I'm not talking a year or two down the road but decades from now, when Tolkein and Lee have long since passed on [and perhaps myself as well]. Having a mint condition, signed, 1st edition will indeed be a rarity and unlike may other types of collectibles, books never seem to lose their value.

 

[Beren]

Ever watch Colbert Report? "I accept your apology."



I will say one thing though, as far as I know 450 or 500 books were announced when WetaWork was 'taking orders' from members here. So I knew, as I would think everyone else did, that they would be sold out quickly and one could imagine very easily that in short order they would pop up on eBay.

Another factor I think will hamper the increasing value is that this line of sigs was not numbered and already forgeries have popped up on eBay. You would be able to say better than me , but it looks like what it is, is a sticker with the two sigs on them inside the book, no?

In the end, I feel better not having gone out of my way to getting the signed book after reading it.

Take care,

Beren

 

[woodsy]

Another factor I think will hamper the increasing value is that this line of sigs was not numbered and already forgeries have popped up on eBay. You would be able to say better than me , but it looks like what it is, is a sticker with the two sigs on them inside the book, no?

You make a good point. I have seen alot of forgeries, with most of them coming from a sports memorabilia guy in, I believe, Kingston, ON. That's where having the official receipts really come in handy. And yes, these are bookplated, which is a fancy way of saying there is a decorative sticker with the signatures on it located in the book.

In the end, I feel better not having gone out of my way to getting the signed book after reading it.

I hate to admit it, but I have just started reading the book myself. I'm certainly not expecting it to be better than LOTR or The Hobbit , but hopefully it will at least be on par with The Silmarillion.