Collectibes - "Take it or leave it." or "Made-to-Order."

[MaulFan]

Even auto makers are following suit.
People want 'cleaner' cars, more fuel efficiency etc, so the automakers HAVE TO listen. If not, they'll simply die off, and their rivals like TOYOTA will "take over".

Great example there.

Applying that example to collecting. Consumers said we're sick of the Buck body, so Sideshow developed a new body to replace it. Consumer spoke, company listened.

What you don't see is if the new Chevy Mustang debuts and a few thousand people write in saying the head light should be slightly reshaped and the grill shrunk a bit, Chevy going and doing that.

There's a balance of what you give the consumer that they want. They should to some extent, but things that are likely to meet positively with the majority.

Hot Toys is starting to develop new bodies, as fans have been commenting on their older ones for some time, kudos to them. That's all good stuff.

I just wonder at what point is the line drawn, and it should be drawn, that things that come down to more personal preference than cast in stone truth, will not be heard. Right now it seems drawn, but I wonder if there will be a day it gets erased, and I don't think that'll be a good day.

 

[Valfar]

I think since Hot Toys did a superb job with their last two Rambo figures..they set the bar some what...well, they have with other licences as well but..when we see something Rambo that costs more and its bigger with the name "Premium Format"..think about that..Premium...I would have high expectations for a collectible dubbed "Premium"...Hot Toys calls their line "Masterpiece" which IMO..the product lives up to the name..SS is more hit or miss with PF's.

 

[FACEBOX]

the only problem comes in when the fans get too choosy about a product, and make outlandish claims about things, like the letter in ask sideshow about han's jacket a few months back.

A manufacturing company should take pains to make the collectible as accurate to the original as possible. if we, the fans, notice an error, then we have a legitimate grievance. But not liking it just because we think some other company could do better, or we would rather have it come with 8 different head sculpts, or some other nonsense is just being arrogant.
They make it, we buy it.
Or not.

Remember, you vote with your wallet.

Exactly!
Outlandish requests are a different story.
However, the more expensive an item...the more input a customer has.

Again, (for example) would anyone here buy a house if it wasn't up to par?
I think not.
However, buying a cup of coffee and not liking it....well....more people are willing to let it slide.
To summarize things again, the higher the price of an item...the more a customer has to say about it.

EDIT:
Great idea for a thread Mauler.

 

[creecher]

These companies bring it on themselves with full knowledge it will fire up the market. Any reaction is a good reaction, especially when it's free advertising in the bargain. It keeps people talking and guessing while they take pre-orders. In the meantime, they may feel consumer feedback can either be incorporated, time permitting, or the changes were something that was going to be done in any case. The prototype being shown to drum up buzz, while they fix faults and make changes, and later, through no justification of their own, consumers believe it is their input that has made the updates and that Hot Toys actually listens. .

Who releases photo's of the prototype? Why release these photo's then recall them? Why release photo's of a prototype that is going to look different upon release? Why make a prototype that you intend to change later anyway? Why not do all the behind the scenes work, and when you arrive at a final decision, release a pic of the proto so we all know what is coming? Because Hot Toys relies on pre-orders to fund the project itself. They don't need a huge warehouse because they know where their items are going, and can ship them directly from the factory to their distributors. Companies like Hot Toys only listen so they can perhaps incorporate ideas into their 'string them along and release a better one later' marketing strategy.

 

[MaulFan]

When you pay hundreds of dollar for something, I think you got the right to say what you dont like about a sculpt or a bad paint job...

There's a difference between right to speak up and being heard and acted upon. I'm not trying to say I'm again people speaking criticisms, but when it gets to the point of almost demanded requests and potentially going to be heard, then it concerns me. If 100 people are happy with something and 10 aren't and those 10 go and press for something to be changed to their liking and the 100 don't like it, who are the 10 to dictate what the option is for the 100 that are happy. If the company dictate's it outright and stands behind their position, then it's all choice and free will. If you don't like it, you might end up dreaming about what could have been, but at least you never had the chance to get your dream, if your shown your dream and then someone takes it away, that'd suck.

 

[Shai]

but this Rambo is a bad Dream MF...

 

[MaulFan]

Again, (for example) would anyone here buy a house if it wasn't up to par?

No they wouldn't, but they also don't end up saying well add a second floor over the garage and we'll buy it, you either want it or don't and for someone that the house might be perfect for, they can come along and buy it.

I just realized a short sum of what seems to be happening, people are looking customs straight from the manufacturer sometimes. However, customization of products is on the owner, not the maker, when an item is produced in mass quantities the same way. If some company could and offered a "build-a-figure" service, that's be one thing, but where it comes down to all 5000+ customers getting the same item, some things should be left to the manufacturer to say here's how we're doing it, if folks are unhappy, it's up to them if they want to pay for it and then pay more to have things altered to their specifications.

 

[abake]

I think the open discussion of collectibles, and open (hopefully constructive) criticism of said collectibles is good.
And if manufacturers use these boards (meaning the myriad toy boards out there, not just this one) as "focus groups" or even "test markets" of their products, then so much better. I doubt figures or collectibles will get worse from the comments and views expressed by the (usually) knowledgeable minority of fans that are a part of these communities, and more often than not, the figures and collectibles can be improved.

Of course it gets tiring sometimes, and I'm sure more than one company ego gets severely beaten when reading some of the criticism leveled at their products, but that is the price you have to pay for opening up certain channels of communication.

Another factor in this is the fact that so many customizers are now willing and able to produce fantastic collectibles. That feeds the "make it like I want it" mentality.

The more a market matures, the more complex it becomes, and the more picky the customers become. This is happening all over 1/6 collecting for example. If you take a look at the military oriented boards, like the 6th division... man, it's tough out there in the WWII world!
People are expecting more: more accuracy, better materials, better research... and the companies that are not giving what the collectors are asking for, are getting in trouble. I can clearly remember the first days of WWII collecting, when every figure DML put out was a god-send! Nowadays DML are treated with contempt and even the high-end outfits like DiD and Soldier Story sometimes take flak for inaccuracies...

In the end however, I think the big companies will have their way if they can keep a nice balance between the quality of what they offer and the prices they ask for it. After all, no amount of constructive criticism, photographic evidence, whining, moaning and threats of physical harm were enough to get HT to make an accurate alien!

I think this is just the way things go. We just want more and more and more.

 

[MaulFan]

but this Rambo is a bad Dream MF...

Wait'll you see their next Hulk piece

 

[LOTRFan]

If it comes to a dark place, I'll stop, so be it, but I don't see why it has to go there.

Not to argue because that wouldn't be my goal at all, but what is so "dark" about interacting on a fan forum about the pros and yes the cons of a particular piece. Sideshow themselves have said that they appreciate constructive criticism; and if it is just the board "trolls" well they too shall pass, that isn't anything new or dark to this hobby -- the internet breeds such a false sense of importance and swagger. We all know that Sideshow is reading a good number of the posts on this board, and as a company they should be concerned when a piece is received with a largely negative response; fortunately they are a company that takes such feedback to heart and strives to improve upon past mistakes.

All that said, we are talking about art here to whatever degree and I know that Sideshow is smart enough not to stifle themselves or their artists. Having spoken with a good number of them at various times through the years; they do remain true to themselves, and their vision. They aren't about to compromise artist vision for a finer nuance or preferencial whim of a minority in the collecting community. I do know however that they were very disappointed with a good number of production pieces coming from China, namely the Moria Orc PF and even to a certain degree the Vader 1/6 figure; they said as much in conversation - and honestly most of the staff are such big collectors themselves they likely critique many of these pieces more than most of us ever could/would.

I trust them in listening the fans, they have been doing so for years; and for them to continue to attempt to stay on top, that however requires both positives and negatives.

Bottom line: don't let it get to you.

 

[FACEBOX]

These companies bring it on themselves with full knowledge it will fire up the market. Any reaction is a good reaction, especially when it's free advertising in the bargain. It keeps people talking and guessing while they take pre-orders. In the meantime, they may feel consumer feedback can either be incorporated, time permitting, or the changes were something that was going to be done in any case. The prototype being shown to drum up buzz, while they fix faults and make changes, and later, through no justification of their own, consumers believe it is their input that has made the updates and that Hot Toys actually listens. .

Who releases photo's of the prototype? Why release these photo's then recall them? Why release photo's of a prototype that is going to look different upon release? Why make a prototype that you intend to change later anyway? Why not do all the behind the scenes work, and when you arrive at a final decision, release a pic of the proto so we all know what is coming? Because Hot Toys relies on pre-orders to fund the project itself. They don't need a huge warehouse because they know where their items are going, and can ship them directly from the factory to their distributors. Companies like Hot Toys only listen so they can perhaps incorporate ideas into their 'string them along and release a better one later' marketing strategy.

That's my only gripe about Hot Toys.
The constant re-releases of vastly improved items.

It's a "smart" business strategy for short term success.
However, in the long term, this will surely backfire as customers become more and more weary with every new release. It's only a matter of time before no one buys the 1st release because of the inevitable superior/ DX Version 2. If no one buys V1. HT will assume that the line isn't a profitable one, and cancel all further releases. See where I'm going with this?

The v1 and superior v2,3,4,5,6 will only hurt everyone in the long run.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE HT, but I think they have yet to strike a good balance. If they keep milking their resources (us) as much as they can...we won't have time to recoup and thus we'd "dry up".

 

[kl241]

Wait'll you see their next Hulk piece

I think somebody already posted Hulk's piece a while back.

 

[Valfar]

Actually the pic of Rambo PF in MaulFans sig is starting to remind me of ScarFace(Tony Montana)..who sculpted this again?.

 

[kl241]

Actually the pic of Rambo PF in MaulFans sig is starting to remind me of ScarFace(Tony Montana)..who sculpted this again?.

You NAILED it Valfar!

 

[MaulFan]

Not to argue because that wouldn't be my goal at all, but what is so "dark" about interacting on a fan forum about the pros and yes the cons of a particular piece.

It's not the interaction, I don't care if it's just chatter. It's when certain comments start to have the power to change things that I am worried about and would consider a dark place.

If I love a product and 90% of the people talking about it don't, doesn't bother me. If that 90% pushes to have something done that I don't agree with and are heard, that I'd have a problem with. If the manufacturer makes a choice about something and that's it, like I've said, fine, it's up to me if I like that choice not. If I'm given a choice and i like it, but people that don't like it get that choice changed, that'd bother me.

To quickly give a basic example of what I mean, I'll use the Rambo PF.

If his bandana came out blue, and a bunch of people commented that it should be red and that was acted upon, that'd be great because it's not preference, it's fact.

If they make his bandana hang from his head as real cloth and some people like that, and some would have preferred sculpted and they push to get it sculpted and that's listened to, that scenario I wouldn't like.

Like I suggested, if companies said we're going to be developing Product X and we want suggestions and ideas from people, that'd be fine with me, share your personal preferences because the product will be what it'll be and I'll either like it or not, I'll never think "man I could have had exactly what I want" because it was never made. Right now, there's opportunity to find a product to be exactly what you'd like, and lose the ability to get it if enough people that disagree with you are heard.

 

[LOTRFan]

If I'm given a choice and i like it, but people that don't like it get that choice changed, that'd bother me.

Is there a time in which that has happened, or are you just worried that it will?

 

[MaulFan]

Is there a time in which that has happened, or are you just worried that it will?

Concerned that it's the direction things are going in, that's the dark point I was referring to.

Thankfully it hasn't yet, but it almost feels like that may be on the horizon.

 

[pixletwin]

This thread is funny.

 

[LOTRFan]

Concerned that it's the direction things are going in, that's the dark point I was referring to.

Thankfully it hasn't yet, but it almost feels like that may be on the horizon.

Ok, well no offense meant here but I think you are taking things just a bit too seriously. I wouldn't let yourself get too worked up about potential problems, esp when there isn't any precedence for them actually occuring.

Chill out man, it will be fine.

 

[lerath666]

Is there a time in which that has happened, or are you just worried that it will?

Concerned that it's the direction things are going in, that's the dark point I was referring to.

Thankfully it hasn't yet, but it almost feels like that may be on the horizon.

It HAS happened. the Hot toys RE 5 Sheva Alamar figure.

There was a spit when she was shown. she was originally shown to have a normal set of arms with exposed joints. i believe she had elbow pads to cover the joints? Not sure there.

Anyways, There were some people ( myself included) who were fine with this. Having standard joints increases her poseability, and makes her able to hold her weapons properly.

there were also some people who felt that the joints made her look ugly, and complaned VERY loudly that she needed a muscly body with rubber arms like chris.

Those people got their wish, and she now has rubber arms that look like Spaghetti noodles with Really WEIRD elbows. Now the people who liked the regular elbows are screaming "change them back"

Needless to say, I "voted with my wallet" on that one, and simply walked away. No I'm not pleased, but I'm not going to piss in someone else cereal, just because I don't like it.



Short run, I guess the lesson is you cannot please everyone?