Did ‘Star Wars’ become a toy story? Producer Gary Kurtz looks back

[thenammagazine]

So is Elton John.

I thought he always claimed he was bi?

 

[Darth Madden]

I don't buy "toy sales would have suffered if Han or Lando died" for a second. Boba Fett not only died but died stupidly and he remained of the most popular figures in the entire line.

Ben, Yoda, Jabba, Vader and the Emperor all died as well and I think their sales are fine.

 

[IdeaOfEvil]

Ever since Kurtz did his interview with IGN back in 2001 (2002?) I've been a fan of his ideas and theories and am only saddened that RotJ was created without him.

BUT!

Even in this interview he said that he and George just couldn't find a middle ground anymore, and so they had to part ways. Yes, having a second Death Star was a stupid idea, but finding a middle ground could have meant the catalyst of the flik being that the Rebels are trying to stop the production on it, before it's even being built. Maybe the Empire could have had a few more Executioners built and guarding a space where the Death Star 2 was planning on being constructed and that could have been the space battle? Whatever, there just didn't need to be a second one.

Han dying; it didn't need to go Kurtz's way, but it didn't need to stay Lucas' way either. Maybe he could have just been lost or paralyzed, or something.

Again, the point shouldn't be whether or not Kurtz's ideas were better than Lucas', it's that the two of them finding a middle ground was what was best for the Star Wars franchise. And Lucas, being the smartest/better business man and owning Star Wars, was able to win out over Kurtz in the end. Hell, look at the new deleted scene for the Blu-Ray that has everyone busting a nut with Luke in the cave, hearing Vaders voice, and adjusting his lightsaber. That totally strikes me as a Kurtz moment who wasn't concerned about saving the new lightsaber reveal for a later time, which is what Lucas gave us 20/30 minutes in with the whole Jabba scene. Kurtz was about continuing the story from ESB and not making RotJ a stand alone flik with it's big scenes and "roller coaster ride" setting (read the IGN article if you wanna know what that refers to).

All in all, Star Wars has gone downhill since RotJ. The sheer concept of it is so great that people, especially the newer fans who came in after RotJ was out of theaters, don't realize that what they're getting now is a half-assed attempt at cash cowing a franchise.

Lucas without Kurtz is a swimming pool without water. It's there, it once was great, but now all the other liquids you're trying to fill in it just isn't the same as it used to be.

 

[devilof76]

Didn't it make sense to build a second Death Star after the first one was destroyed? It's not like they needed one any less.

Compromise is like sacrifice (even though it would have been really awesome to have Han Solo riding around in a motorized wheelchair like Christopher Reeve).

 

[thenammagazine]

I laugh when I read most haters' thoughts about Jedi. It's all BS bandwagon ____ now. Back when it hit, like most everybody else, they probably enjoyed the ____ out of it, saw it multiple times and had a blast with their Star Wars toys.

 

[IdeaOfEvil]

I laugh when I read most haters' thoughts about Jedi. It's all BS bandwagon ____ now. Back when it hit, like most everybody else, they probably enjoyed the ____ out of it, saw it multiple times and had a blast with their Star Wars toys.

As much as people are haters, your replies in this thread show that you're on the opposite spectrum of being a Lucas drone. Does everything he makes look like a solid gold ring to you? You've basically claimed that the prequels are great and possibly greater than the OT since "Lucas wasn't able to make them (OT trilogy) look like he wanted, like with the PT"

 

[thenammagazine]

As much as people are haters, your replies in this thread show that you're on the opposite spectrum of being a Lucas drone. Does everything he makes look like a solid gold ring to you? You've basically claimed that the prequels are great and possibly greater than the OT since "Lucas wasn't able to make them (OT trilogy) look like he wanted, like with the PT"

Typical newb. You're putting words in my mouth. All I've stated was that if Lucas had the money and the technology he has now, in '77, the OT would've looked closer to what we see in the PT. While I did enjoy the PT, it wasn't superior to the OT and my favorite movie in the Saga is, and always has been, ESB (it's important to note, that I'm not part of the "video" crowd and saw every movie on their original release dates, in the theatres - starting with Star Wars in '77). As with everybody else, there're plenty of things I didn't like about the PT (Jar Jar, Obi's fake beard, little Anny, etc), I just don't feel the need to incessantly whine about it over and over. Along the same lines, I'm not going to jump on the "Lucas raped my childhood" bandwagon that many people, and newbs jump on because it's the "hip" thing to do.

 

[a-dev]

I think the prequels are enjoyable if you just disassociate them in your head from the originals. But they're not part of my personal Star Wars canon, thats OT only and at this point I'm sure its going to stay that way. We'll always have the originals.

 

[IdeaOfEvil]

Typical newb. You're putting words in my mouth. All I've stated was that if Lucas had the money and the technology he has now, in '77, the OT would've looked closer to what we see in the PT. While I did enjoy the PT, it wasn't superior to the OT and my favorite movie in the Saga is, and always has been, ESB (it's important to note, that I'm not part of the "video" crowd and saw every movie on their original release dates, in the theatres - starting with Star Wars in '77). As with everybody else, there're plenty of things I didn't like about the PT (Jar Jar, Obi's fake beard, little Anny, etc), I just don't feel the need to incessantly whine about it over and over. Along the same lines, I'm not going to jump on the "Lucas raped my childhood" bandwagon that many people, and newbs jump on because it's the "hip" thing to do.

I can dig what you're saying here, but you didn't say it in your other replies. I personally feel that RotJ is a lame flik, and what makes it "hurt" so much is that, with Kurtz, there was the possibility of it being even greater that ESB. I never said RotJ raped my childhood or killed my momma, but it is what it is. To say that anyone who dares even attempts not liking the movie is just a band-wagoning douche is unfair if you won't listen to their reasonings first.

All I said was that Lucas needs Kurtz as much as Kurtz needed Lucas, and neither of them had better ideas than the other individually. So without having one check the other, we got RotJ the way it was and then another 30 years of terrible edits to the OT and sub par prequels with the PT because Lucas didn't have the other guy who created the franchise with him.

I'd accept any debate on my ideas as long as it was a debate and not just some uninspired attack with generic comments like "You suck", "You're just saying that cuz it's the "in" thing to do", and the ever loving "Lucas is a genius and he doesn't need you as a fan" (and I'm not saying that you fit in that category or have said those things at all)

 

[Star Puffs]

Money will always win out. Everyone here would've done the same thing, sell that merchandise.

Tell that to Bill Watterson. There are in fact people that put art, happiness, etc. ahead of money.

 

[thenammagazine]

Bottom line, as I've said before, at the end of the day it's Lucas' sandbox. If you want to play in it, do so and enjoy your time there. It's quite literally his story. We're all just along for the ride.

I think it's lame how everybody's so overcritical about Lucas, yet Spielberg is repeatedly praised and gets away with changing guns into radios for ET and castrating Indy in KotCS.

 

[IdeaOfEvil]

I think it's lame how everybody's so overcritical about Lucas, yet Spielberg is repeatedly praised and gets away with changing guns into radios for ET and castrating Indy in KotCS.

If there was a thread about Spielbergo, I'd dig even deeper into his nonsense than I would Lucas

 

[Star Puffs]

I can dig what you're saying here, but you didn't say it in your other replies.

Any effort at an intelligent response is wasted. Nam's chief goal in any given thread is usually to stir up trouble by a variety of deflections and personal attacks (see the Watchmen Petition thread for a clinic of that behaviour). Basically if you fail to agree with him on a given topic you are in his mind an 'entitled, gay, OT elitist, cry-baby, know-nothing newb'.

 

[the dude person]

Any effort at an intelligent response is wasted. Nam's chief goal in any given thread is usually to stir up trouble by a variety of deflections and personal attacks (see the Watchmen Petition thread for a clinic of that behaviour). Basically if you fail to agree with him on a given topic you are in his mind an 'entitled, gay, OT elitist, cry-baby, know-nothing newb'.

 

[thenammagazine]

Any effort at an intelligent response is wasted. Nam's chief goal in any given thread is usually to stir up trouble by a variety of deflections and personal attacks (see the Watchmen Petition thread for a clinic of that behaviour). Basically if you fail to agree with him on a given topic you are in his mind an 'entitled, gay, OT elitist, cry-baby, know-nothing newb'.

I'm betting he sees otherwise. And you're quite the hypocrite with that statement.

For the record, I don't call people "gay." That's discriminatory.

 

[the dude person]

Oh.

EDIT:

Any effort at an intelligent response is wasted. Nam's chief goal in any given thread is usually to stir up trouble by a variety of deflections and personal attacks (see the Watchmen Petition thread for a clinic of that behaviour). Basically if you fail to agree with him on a given topic you are in his mind an 'entitled, OT elitist, cry-baby, know-nothing newb'.

 

[man_vs_machine]

I love all the films and the clone wars show as well. Not too sure about all the bickering, but I agree with Nam, it's Lucas' story and he can and does what he wants with it. Lucky for me I happen to love all the films

 

[Star Puffs]

For the record, I don't call people "gay." That's discriminatory.

You know it took me about 5 bloody seconds with google to disprove that:

08-03-2010 08:41 AM, thenammagazine:
"To me, they're just two hella gay looking guys."
https://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/converse.php?u=4679&u2=6136&page=16

Said about Bret and Jemaine of Flight of the Conchords, who have more wit in their stage name than you manage in your entire 20,000 post oeuvre.

 

[thenammagazine]

You know it took me about 5 bloody seconds with google to disprove that:

08-03-2010 08:41 AM, thenammagazine:
"To me, they're just two hella gay looking guys."
https://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/converse.php?u=4679&u2=6136&page=16

Said about Bret and Jemaine of Flight of the Conchords, who have more wit in their stage name than you manage in your entire 20,000 post oeuvre.

Did you even read the conversation? You're a ____ing joke. Find me a post here where I called another member gay. You won't, because I never have. Or is that why you bailed? Because you came in here with nothing, and proved nothing.

For those not in the know, the resentment Star Puffs has is over one of her very first posts in this forum, where she was whining about a Sideshow product she'd received that was damaged, and while she was more than willing to post several emo rants and hate about Sideshow, she didn't want to, and was blatantly refusing to call Sideshow, resolve the issue and get a replacement.

 

[Bastilla]

I love how these disgruntled hacks try to take credit for more than they actually did. Obviously he's the "real genius" behind ANH and ESB considering all the great movie work he has done since. Go crawl back under your rock Gary, no one gives a crap about the ******* douche you are.