Did ‘Star Wars’ become a toy story? Producer Gary Kurtz looks back

[IdeaOfEvil]

Typical newb.

I love how these disgruntled hacks try to take credit for more than they actually did. Obviously he's the "real genius" behind ANH and ESB considering all the great movie work he has done since. Go crawl back under your rock Gary, no one gives a crap about the ******* ****** you are.

I think this guy fits your definition

 

[CelticPredator]

Kinda sounds like he's just jealous that he was let go and didn't have a share in the take from the merchandise. He can't dis Star Wars or Empire which both had silly elements because that would question his integrity, but he puts down everything after ESB. People seem to forget, it's George's sandbox. They were just lucky enough to play in it.

I disagree.

But before I get into my points, I do enjoy ROTJ. I have no issues with it, other then a few minor quibbles. That being said....
Some filmmakers DO actually care about what they make. Even big money makers. Money is everything to the studio, but it's not everything to the filmmaker. Oh it plays a huge part, but they (the good ones) care about what ends up on screen.

.

 

[CelticPredator]

I love how these disgruntled hacks try to take credit for more than they actually did. Obviously he's the "real genius" behind ANH and ESB considering all the great movie work he has done since. Go crawl back under your rock Gary, no one gives a crap about the ******* ****** you are.

.............

 

[The Josh]

I agree with Nam that if Lucas had everything then that he does now (money/tech) the OT would be much closer to the PT. As I have said before the PT and OT have many of the same issues. I take all six films for what they are to me fun rides that give me time to escape and enjoy the universe they are set in.

As far as this guy. It was an interesting article and his thoughts are again interesting. I do think it comes a bit across like he's just pissed he missed out on some of the money but it is what it is.

 

[CelticPredator]

Maybe it's just because I know where he's coming from....I dont get that at all. Why would you be bitter about something you disagree with, and didnt work as well as it should've artisictly?

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

nice read

 

[CelticPredator]

I'll just throw this in before I sleep...

But here's the thing, when you want to be a filmmaker(like me), and your primary goal is to get people to enjoy themselves, you tend to want to create something that you think in your heart is the best thing for the picture...

I did this show for my school...some little Office rip off show, and I was the director. I had a clear vision to do something different that I was sure people would enjoy, without thinking of it as a rip-off...

And so I did. The "creators" got pissed with me, and forced me to stick to that more accessible style. (Teenagers love ____ that's a ripoff...it comforts them or something. blah.) insted of something that was cool and different, but still just as good. Point is, we had different opinions on how the show was going to work. Which lead me to quit. Without a fuss.

So I mean, the next episode after mine was a hit....but I didnt feel jealous, mainly because I didnt agree with their choices. It was a terrible episode, and I thought mine was a little better. Not that much better, but a little bit more interesting to watch.

I dunno....when I get into this mindset, I do think differently of directors, and actors, people like James Cameron, George Lucas, Stanley Kubrick...ect...and you can start to understand where they're coming from.

 

[thenammagazine]

Maybe it's just because I know where he's coming from....I dont get that at all. Why would you be bitter about something you disagree with, and didnt work as well as it should've artisictly?

He ripped on the merchandising and sited that as being the reason for Lucas' motives. As Khev pointed out, dead or alive, I doubt Han Solo's fate would've affected it. Lucas neutered him in the SE and had Greedo shoot first. Many of us are highly vocal about it but it hasn't affected sales of the figure. Plus, I don't see them producing Endor Han by the truckloads either. So with him throwing that into the mix, it really sounds like he's bitter that he didn't get points in Lucas' billion dollar merchandising monster.

If he was truly disgruntled, he would've taken the stance, as others have, about Lucas being surrounded by too many "yes" men and not even have mentioned the merchandising.

 

[abake]

Interesting points CP.

My take on this ongoing discussion is that I think people (and I include myself) tend to forget that these are movies for kids.

That doesn't mean they have to be stupid or badly acted, but it does mean they have to be taken a bit lightly. If you understand that Lucas wanted to do some type of "hommage" to the old Flash Gordon-type serials, you'll readily understand why Han Solo or Lando couldn't die. Why there could be no bitter-sweet ending with Luke walking off into the horizon and Leia struggling with her new role. That was not the story Lucas wanted to tell, and it was his story to tell. Screw Kurtz.
I'm sure he had a great influence on the first two films, but his vision for ROTJ was simply wrong from the point of view of the spirit of SW.
If only the ewoks hadn't been there...

 

[Khev]

If Lucas had the funds and tech in 1982 that he does now I could see the Sarlacc Pitt battle being an enormous spectacle. Sure it could look like one giant CG video game if not done right but picture a Sail Barge as big as a cruise ship, a Sarlacc as big as a football field, and rival Tatooine crime families (weequay and swoop bike marauders) seizing the opportunity to off Jabba while he's out in the open and you could easily have a viable and jaw droppingly awesome free for all.

Maybe add a couple of bounty hunter ships and have the battle close out like AOTC with a squadron of Rebel gunships descending on the melee. I'm not advocating that Lucas try to touch up the existing sequence AT ALL but if you picture what really would be possible with today's tech its pretty amazing.

 

[Star Puffs]

Did you even read the conversation? You're a ____ing joke.

Well, now I know I did get under your skin. Your first post was just the typical string on LOLs and a one-liner. Then at some point you decided that just wasn't enough.

Find me a post here where I called another member gay. You won't, because I never have. Or is that why you bailed? Because you came in here with nothing, and proved nothing.

Let's see, the record clearly shows you using "gay" as a pejorative, two more of many examples being:

This is a gay namebrands vs. generics argument.

Gay head for a gay character.

But because you didn't apply it to a forum member it makes it OK in your mind? If you actually felt calling someone gay was "discriminatory" as you claimed earlier, then you would not use "gay" as a slur. Add in the fact that any posts where you actually did call someone "gay" as a form of personal attack would probably be deleted by mods.

Besides, how many times have you been suspended anyway?

For those not in the know, the resentment Star Puffs has is over one of her very first posts in this forum,...

Actually my post is due to the fact you repeatedly come across as a wilful bully in your conduct towards others. The Watchmen thread I cited is just your latest example where you keep pursuing a poster, Rorywan, even when he firmly asked you to stop.

And how many people have cited you being a bully over time? That would be an interesting thread.

 

[CelticPredator]

He ripped on the merchandising and sited that as being the reason for Lucas' motives. As Khev pointed out, dead or alive, I doubt Han Solo's fate would've affected it. Lucas neutered him in the SE and had Greedo shoot first. Many of us are highly vocal about it but it hasn't affected sales of the figure. Plus, I don't see them producing Endor Han by the truckloads either. So with him throwing that into the mix, it really sounds like he's bitter that he didn't get points in Lucas' billion dollar merchandising monster.

If he was truly disgruntled, he would've taken the stance, as others have, about Lucas being surrounded by too many "yes" men and not even have mentioned the merchandising.

Yeah but broski, when someone is so deadset on one single idea, and will not in any way compromise, no matter how hard you try, there's nothing you can do. You can fight fight fight, but when that guy ultimately runs the show, there's not a whole lot you can do.

And the merch thing....well, he made the ewoks to sell toys. I mean, you could've replaced them with nasty space bugs....and still have the same effect of the savages overcoming the evil technologic empire, without being cute little bears. BUT, by being cute little bears, that appeal to children, and those toys will probably sell.

Look at the PT, look at all those useless Aliens. Like Daxter Jettster...all those JEDI Aliens too...some of them had a screen time of mere seconds, and yet, they were action figures.

I can understand Gary's frustration. The toys should be a by product of the movie. Not the other way around.

Nothing about that article suggested he was jealous. He knew where things were headed, he knew it was going to be big...if he wanted the cash, he could've kept his mouth shut, and went along with it. But he didn't. Because Star Wars was something he was proud of, and he wanted the rest of the films to be fantastic. Lucas didn't want to compromise with him, and so Gary left. It happens.

He moved on...but that frustration is still there. He wanted to work WITH Lucas, not around him. He wanted to come up with a fantastic film. Both of their ideas sepreate are meh....but if they only worked together...who knows.

 

[CelticPredator]

Interesting points CP.

My take on this ongoing discussion is that I think people (and I include myself) tend to forget that these are movies for kids.

That doesn't mean they have to be stupid or badly acted, but it does mean they have to be taken a bit lightly. If you understand that Lucas wanted to do some type of "hommage" to the old Flash Gordon-type serials, you'll readily understand why Han Solo or Lando couldn't die. Why there could be no bitter-sweet ending with Luke walking off into the horizon and Leia struggling with her new role. That was not the story Lucas wanted to tell, and it was his story to tell. Screw Kurtz.
I'm sure he had a great influence on the first two films, but his vision for ROTJ was simply wrong from the point of view of the spirit of SW.
If only the ewoks hadn't been there...

No, not "Screw Kurtz".

His vision isnt wrong. It's just not complete. Neither was Lucas'. If they worked together, then we would have something fantastic. They could've easily put ALL those endings together (minus Solo's death). They all have fun...and then Luke goes off. Into the sunset, and begins a new life. SEE! People can work together! I can come up with some good ideas....but when i'm working with other people, I can come up with GREAT idea's.

Like I said, Han dying would've been better from a thematic stand point. More emotion, you'll feel it.

But...because these movies are for everyone, of all ages...that would be too much. I agree. But that still doesnt mean the other should shoe horn all kinds of crap that really isnt important to the story, to sell toys. Which is what Kurtz was saying.

 

[CelticPredator]

If Lucas had the funds and tech in 1982 that he does now I could see the Sarlacc Pitt battle being an enormous spectacle. Sure it could look like one giant CG video game if not done right but picture a Sail Barge as big as a cruise ship, a Sarlacc as big as a football field, and rival Tatooine crime families (weequay and swoop bike marauders) seizing the opportunity to off Jabba while he's out in the open and you could easily have a viable and jaw droppingly awesome free for all.

Maybe add a couple of bounty hunter ships and have the battle close out like AOTC with a squadron of Rebel gunships descending on the melee. I'm not advocating that Lucas try to touch up the existing sequence AT ALL but if you picture what really would be possible with today's tech its pretty amazing.

That sounds like the worst thing ever. The battle is fine. It's about Luke saving Leia and Han.....why do we need all that nonsense?

 

[abake]

No, not "Screw Kurtz".

His vision isnt wrong. It's just not complete. Neither was Lucas'. If they worked together, then we would have something fantastic. They could've easily put ALL those endings together (minus Solo's death). They all have fun...and then Luke goes off. Into the sunset, and begins a new life. SEE! People can work together! I can come up with some good ideas....but when i'm working with other people, I can come up with GREAT idea's.

Like I said, Han dying would've been better from a thematic stand point. More emotion, you'll feel it.

But...because these movies are for everyone, of all ages...that would be too much. I agree. But that still doesnt mean the other should shoe horn all kinds of crap that really isnt important to the story, to sell toys. Which is what Kurtz was saying.

I get where you're coming from CP, but the fact is everybody blames Lucas for Kurtz walking off, when Kurtz could've let go of his "vision" of making SW's ending "bitter-sweet" and embraced the fact that it was a movie for kids that needed a happy ending. I think the whole thing went way over his head and he lost perspective of how it all started.
I'm not saying Lucas didn't, I'm saying everybody seems to hail Kurtz as the reason why SW was cool and I call BS on that.
George Lucas is Star Wars. A lot of people had a lot of input, for better or worse, but it is and always will be George's sandbox/ride/baby.

And another thing, I lay the blame on Han sucking throughout ROTJ on Ford's crappy acting. Dude didn't care, didn't want to be there and was so un-professional and ungrateful to the role and man who put him on the frigging road to superstardom that he sleepwalked the entire role.

 

[The Josh]

That sounds like the worst thing ever. The battle is fine. It's about Luke saving Leia and Han.....why do we need all that nonsense?

For you. When you become an adult director you will be able to do some things you want. We know Lucas probably would have done what Khev said and it could have come across looking awesome. In the end you still would have Luke saving them it just would have had more visuals.

And another thing, I lay the blame on Han sucking throughout ROTJ on Ford's crappy acting. Dude didn't care, didn't want to be there and was so un-professional and ungrateful to the role and man who put him on the frigging road to superstardom that he sleepwalked the entire role.

Yeah, that is part of the reason you can tell his acting in ROTJ is below the others. He just didn't care anymore to play the role and was taking the check. He was ready to not be that character anymore which is why he tried to get Lucas to kill him in ESB (if memory serves me correctly). I love him as Indy and enjoy him in other movies but his mailing it in ROTJ is something that when I see other movies he plays in I think about.

 

[CelticPredator]

Yeah but, the thing is when you add in all that stuff, you lose the MAIN point of the scene. It's a rescue. You focus on the mains. That's all you care about. Which is why I consider the Arena battle in AOTC to be one of the most boring action scenes of all time. I wanted to know what happens to Anakin and Obi Wan. I dont care about the thousands of Jedi, and Clones....

That's just toy stuff.

I mean, if the characters are ALWAYS present in the spectle, then it'd work. But they have to be there, almost all the time. Because they are the one's you want to watch.

 

[CelticPredator]

I get where you're coming from CP, but the fact is everybody blames Lucas for Kurtz walking off, when Kurtz could've let go of his "vision" of making SW's ending "bitter-sweet" and embraced the fact that it was a movie for kids that needed a happy ending. I think the whole thing went way over his head and he lost perspective of how it all started.
I'm not saying Lucas didn't, I'm saying everybody seems to hail Kurtz as the reason why SW was cool and I call BS on that.George Lucas is Star Wars. A lot of people had a lot of input, for better or worse, but it is and always will be George's sandbox/ride/baby.

And another thing, I lay the blame on Han sucking throughout ROTJ on Ford's crappy acting. Dude didn't care, didn't want to be there and was so un-professional and ungrateful to the role and man who put him on the frigging road to superstardom that he sleepwalked the entire role.

Well, yeah, that is BS....

But at the same time, I call BS when people say it's Lucas sandbox. All that tells me is, Lucas is arrogant, and selfish. He accepts no input from anyone, and thinks too much of himself. I dont think Kurtz thinks he is the sole reason Star Wars worked. But you cant say that his input didnt work out for the better.

That's what frustrates me about Star Wars fans. They seem to pin up Lucas as a god, and a perfect man, when this is the same person who ignores his fans, and says "It's mine! I CAN DO WHAT I WANT!"

Well, if you think that Mr. Lucas, why even release them to the public?

I dont like those kind of directors.

Or maybe it's me. I just want to make films that people will enjoy.

 

[abake]

It is George's story to deliver as he sees fit, ours to dissect as we see fit.

 

[The Josh]

Yeah but, the thing is when you add in all that stuff, you lose the MAIN point of the scene. It's a rescue. You focus on the mains. That's all you care about. Which is why I consider the Arena battle in AOTC to be one of the most boring action scenes of all time. I wanted to know what happens to Anakin and Obi Wan. I dont care about the thousands of Jedi, and Clones....

That's just toy stuff.

I mean, if the characters are ALWAYS present in the spectle, then it'd work. But they have to be there, almost all the time. Because they are the one's you want to watch.

I enjoyed the battle scene in AOTC and know exactly whats going on to ANakin, Obi-Wan, and Padme because they keep cutting back to them the entire time. Actually, when things go to hell in a hand basket there is a rescue at the end which leads to the battle at the end of the movie.