Disney Abandons hand drawn animation

[ironwez20]

I never said I didn't like it. I just think it is incredibly mediocre, from a very mediocre period of Disney movies.

But like I said, the transition away from 2D doesn't have to be a bad thing, since Pixar's output is incredible. Disney's recent 3D output has been great as well.

Really? You thought it was mediocre? I dont know how old you are but Im guessing you saw the older movies first and just thought Notra dame didnt compare?

 

[Biojex]

I don't particularly like Hunchback, the only thing going for it, is the villain. Frolo is severely underrated as a villain. His "Hellfire" song is something else.

 

[Spidey976]

Reading this thread I get a sense that a lot of you don't know too much about what's going on with the company. I'll throw in my 5 cents.

Disney's official statement says that as of right now, there are not any 2D traditionally hand drawn animated products in development. That does not mean they won't return to it at some point in the future. This isn't quite the same bad news as it was a decade ago when then-CEO Michael Eisner laid off all the animators and started selling the animator desks on ebay.

Eisner was pushed out, Bob Iger became CEO and brought in Pixar heads John Lasseter and Ed Catmull, who meddled with Meet the Robinsons, redid Bolt, gave us the return to 2D animation with Princess and the Frog, Tangled and....

The last traditional animated film from Disney is 2011's Winnie the Pooh, a really cute sequel to the 1960-70s' era Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh. This film goes back to the A.A. Milne story books and got CRUSHED in the box office with lousy marketing, bad public perception of Winnie the Pooh being for preschoolers (Disney's own fault), and having it go up against Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2. (if you haven't seen this and love the original Pooh cartoons from the 60s, I recommend this 100%)


Paperman, the oscar winning short appears hand drawn but is 100% CG. I imagine that they won the award for partially pushing the technology of computers to draw lines over the characters rather than fully rendering them.

The future of Disney animation could still involve a 2D sensibility with this technology so time will only tell.

Later this year they release FROZEN, aka Hans Christian Andersen's The Snow Queen. Originally a hand drawn production, it was switched over to CG.

Totally agree Dude but Lol... None of the animation is done traditionally anymore anyway... It is all done on Cintiqs and the like with 3 or 4 computer screens around the animator using animation programs or photoshop. Now it is hand drawn as opposed to computer animated, but it is still a change. Even Pooh was done on computers.

I will say that the distinction between animate and CG is a false one to make. Computers don't MAKE the image in a vacuum, they are simply a TOOL. People use the tools they are given and the tools change. Should all houses be made with with hand drills and hammers?

In the end it is the talent and skill of the animators that bring images to life, and the stories that endure. If the animators of today had those classic stories, I bet they would do an amazing job with them. In fact having seen Bolt, Tangled, and Wreck it Ralph I can honestly say that the animation has all of the nuances in the performances created by the animators that were there in Beauty and the Beast, and Aladdin are sill there.

Yeah sure the new animators have WAY more tools to get the job. Done more quickly, but they use them well and to great effect while not forgetting that performance is at the heart of the movie.

 

[foolkiller]

This guy knows what he's talking about.

Totally agree Dude but Lol... None of the animation is done traditionally anymore anyway... It is all done on Cintiqs and the like with 3 or 4 computer screens around the animator using animation programs or photoshop. Now it is hand drawn as opposed to computer animated, but it is still a change. Even Pooh was done on computers.

I will say that the distinction between animate and CG is a false one to make. Computers don't MAKE the image in a vacuum, they are simply a TOOL. People use the tools they are given and the tools change. Should all houses be made with with hand drills and hammers?

In the end it is the talent and skill of the animators that bring images to life, and the stories that endure. If the animators of today had those classic stories, I bet they would do an amazing job with them. In fact having seen Bolt, Tangled, and Wreck it Ralph I can honestly say that the animation has all of the nuances in the performances created by the animators that were there in Beauty and the Beast, and Aladdin are sill there.

Yeah sure the new animators have WAY more tools to get the job. Done more quickly, but they use them well and to great effect while not forgetting that performance is at the heart of the movie.

 

[Spidey976]

This guy knows what he's talking about.

Thanks foolkiller... I forgot to mention how much I LOVE Disney animation, including thier newer master pieces.

 

[dharper]

Seriously. I never knew that The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Hercules, Mulan and The Emperor's New Groove were considered the Golden Age of Disney.

But I could see some considering Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin and the Lion King as the Golden Age of Disney....

According to Wikipedia this era is known as the Disney Renaissance. The Golden Age is the Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty era.

[2] during which Walt Disney Animation Studios returned to making successful animated films mostly based on well-known stories, restoring public and critical interest in Disney.
The animated films released during this period include The Little Mermaid (1989), The Rescuers Down Under (1990), Beauty and the Beast (1991), Aladdin (1992), The Lion King (1994), Pocahontas (1995), The Hunchback of Notre Dame (1996), Hercules (1997), Mulan (1998), and Tarzan (1999).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Renaissance

 

[Spidey976]

According to Wikipedia this era is known as the Disney Renaissance. The Golden Age is the Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty era.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Renaissance

Some people consider it the Golden Age for themselves, but yeah I think the term most widely used is the Renaissance because starting with the Little Mermaid Disney REALLY started to put out movies that the WHOLE family could enjoy on multiple levels.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Hand Drawn > CGI Diarrhea

 

[Coheteboy]

I love Hunchback of Notre Dame... but it took me a 2nd visit and third visit to the theater to really see that. It was the first one that really weirded me out and at first I hated how dark it was... and then I loved how dark it was. The music is also some of the best Alan Menken has done.


Aristocats BLOWS.

 

[devilof76]

You have bad taste too.

 

[Spidey976]

Hand Drawn > CGI Diarrhea

A generalization like that is no more useful used tissue. I have seen FANTASTIC hand drawn animation and FANTASTIC CGI. I would put most of the CG work done by Pixar, Disney, and Dream Works up against ANY of the Hand Drawn movies from the Disney Renasance ANY day in terms of the QUALITY of the animation. While also remembering that all of those hand drawn films had computer generated portions as well. Where some of the newer films lack is story... But that s NOT a fault of the CGI animator... It is the fault of the writters.

To say that CGI=Diarrhea just sound rediculous... I am sorry it does. The performances that the artists managed to capture in How to Train Your Dragon, Rise of the Guardians, Tangled, and Wreck it Ralph were completely ANIMATED by an animator.... There was no performance capture used. So in the end it is still the same skills just using newer and more powerful tools.

 

[Coheteboy]

Totally agree Dude but Lol... None of the animation is done traditionally anymore anyway... It is all done on Cintiqs and the like with 3 or 4 computer screens around the animator using animation programs or photoshop. Now it is hand drawn as opposed to computer animated, but it is still a change. Even Pooh was done on computers.

I will say that the distinction between animate and CG is a false one to make. Computers don't MAKE the image in a vacuum, they are simply a TOOL. People use the tools they are given and the tools change. Should all houses be made with with hand drills and hammers?

In the end it is the talent and skill of the animators that bring images to life, and the stories that endure. If the animators of today had those classic stories, I bet they would do an amazing job with them. In fact having seen Bolt, Tangled, and Wreck it Ralph I can honestly say that the animation has all of the nuances in the performances created by the animators that were there in Beauty and the Beast, and Aladdin are sill there.

Yeah sure the new animators have WAY more tools to get the job. Done more quickly, but they use them well and to great effect while not forgetting that performance is at the heart of the movie.

Shake my head. Yes, everything is "done on computers", but when we say traditional, that still implies old fashioned pencil and paper. Princess and the Frog and Winnie the Pooh were still done this way. Yes, computers assists a great deal in clean up and color, but it's not drawn onto a computer program.

Proof:

[ame]https://youtu.be/XtRUly4vHHo[/ame]


And Princess and the Frog
[ame]https://youtu.be/AHMdow6f6KI[/ame]


If you LOVE Disney Animation, stop spreading false truths about it.

 

[Spidey976]

Shake my head. Yes, everything is "done on computers", but when we say traditional, that still implies old fashioned pencil and paper. Princess and the Frog and Winnie the Pooh were still done this way. Yes, computers assists a great deal in clean up and color, but it's not drawn onto a computer program.

Proof:

https://youtu.be/XtRUly4vHHo


And Princess and the Frog
https://youtu.be/AHMdow6f6KI


If you LOVE Disney Animation, stop spreading false truths about it.

I am sorry but I did see a short piece talking about pooh were they were animating by hand using a computer screen. Maybe the clean up is what I was seeing.

 

[Coheteboy]

I am sorry but I did see a short piece talking about pooh were they were animating by hand using a computer screen. Maybe the clean up is what I was seeing.

Roughs are done on paper and pencil, clean up can still be done on paper and then scanned in but some do computer directly. Color has entirely been on computer since Rescuers Down Under (early 90s).

 

[crows]

When I think of modern movies done in CG today and try to imagine them in 2d, I can't. I really cannot picture Wreck it Ralph as a 2D movie.

At the same time I couldn't imagine Lion King or Little mermaid done in CG, it would have looked kind of awful...

I don't know, trying to imagine each one done differently feels wrong to me, Like trying to imagine Toy Story done in 2d.

 

[karamazov80]

It's easy for me to imagine any given 3D movie in 2D. Woulda been. . .just exactly what we got in the 80s and mostly in the 90s.

 

[devilof76]

I still don't really like CG animation. It has yet to move as naturally as 2D managed. Tends not to be as attractive either.

 

[Spidey976]

I still don't really like CG animation. It has yet to move as naturally as 2D managed. Tends not to be as attractive either.

Really? See I personally thought How to Train Your Dragon, Tangled,Wreck it Ralph, and Rise of the Guardians REALLY turned a corner in the natural movement and attractiveness department. When I watch Tangled I SEE the influence of Beauty and the Beast all over it. In fact the King and Queen really ARE Belle and the Beast just OLDER!!!!

 

[Coheteboy]

The problem with CG animation is the pipeline. It looks terrible for the longest time and then finally at the end do you see how amazing it can look.

With hand drawn animation, you can have it in rough sketches and it looks impressive because it's the artist's talent in acting AND artistry.


Remember when you could see a trailer for the next year's Disney movie in front of the current movie? Not happening anymore since they have nothing to show you yet. Pixar does a good job in creating teasers that aren't even in the movie that helps sell the film.

 

[Spidey976]

The problem with CG animation is the pipeline. It looks terrible for the longest time and then finally at the end do you see how amazing it can look.

With hand drawn animation, you can have it in rough sketches and it looks impressive because it's the artist's talent in acting AND artistry.


Remember when you could see a trailer for the next year's Disney movie in front of the current movie? Not happening anymore since they have nothing to show you yet. Pixar does a good job in creating teasers that aren't even in the movie that helps sell the film.

Okay... So ... And I am not trying to be an argumentative *** here, but... If your problem isn't with the END product, but the process, then I hate to say it I am having some difficulty understanding the "problem of With CG".

Now don't get me wrong, as a pencil and paper artist for he last 30 years, I am a HUGE fan of seeing WIP pieces and seeing the whole process when it comes to making a piece of art. Whether it be Canale making a statue, Loston Wallace doing a page of work (if you don't know who Loston is you should look him up he rocks), or a CG trained artist working with a wire frame, I LOVE to see it all. Now I won't lie I LOVE those old drawing table how to videos, BUT with everything the tools change. It is foolish to thnk that just because something was ALWAYS dne me way it can't evolve. Isn't that he nature of innovation. If it want places like this wouldn't exist.

Should a drafts man have to use markers, rulers, and stickers to draw out a floor plan, or should he be able to use AutoCAD to do the same amount of work in less then a 1/4 of the time, and work that can be edited and tweaked with far more ease.

The simple thing of it is tools and technology changes and evolves, and while I miss watching animators go to town with paper and pencil, I won't be little the achievements put forth by animators trained to make computer generated images. Their ability to achieve beauty, performance, and feeling is quickly becoming a match for those who came before them. Hell, if am not mistaken many of them are being coached and trained by the guys who did the movies we loved during the Renasance. IMHO Tangled was the Disney CG animators taking up the torch of those who had come before, and they aren't the only ones who have.

In the end if you don't mind the finished product I don't see the problem really, other then wanting things to be dne the way they were before.