Dr. Doom Legendary Scale Figure - order now from first post!

[RobertoBagg10]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

That is a good question, and I really don't know the answer. It could be like Atheris said, SS trying to tap into the aftermarket value...not exactly sure how the open ES allows them to do it, but that's why I'm not a marketing guru...

Its not often i have them! but it just dawned on me that how is this constant need of having to have an open ES for the majority of their releases benefitiing them? Why has it changed?

If you ask me, putting an edition size on a piece would create more interest and sales rather than creating this open ES crap all the time. Like i said earlier, it wouldnt interfere with my decision when wanting to purchase an new item but i can see how having an ES would benefit each and every owner of that piece.

Take for instance the R2 and C3PO Exclusive, that has an ES of 250. Now i managed to get one of these and its a great feeling or bonus if you like to know that only another 249 were made like mine in the world but even if it had an open ES i would still have bought it at the asking price with no questions asked...

 

[filip629]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

I think you explain your points more clearer than what Chris was trying to do filip and so i can understand a little better what you guys were trying to say. All your points have relevance and i hear what you are saying. I think, however, its like what Bmutha said about how one spends their money and it being their choice etc...

Of course. What bothers Chris (and myself) is that peeps that choose to spend thousands on open ES pieces encourages SSC to continue that practice and expand it among their other merchandise. Other collectors like Chris and I are watching the very thing we hate as collectors (open ES and re releases) expand with the continued purchases of open ES pieces. For those of us staunchly against open ES pieces, we watch as each purchase leads to more of them. That can get frustrating. I believe that that's why Chris is so passionate about the subject and his posts came off a bit harsh. Purchases of open ES pieces will lead to more of them. That's the fact that doesn't sit well with collectors who don't like them. In the end, every collector gets to spend their money on whatever they want. Doing so on open ES pieces will lead ALL of us into a new era of collecting whether we like it or not.

 

[Mister Ski]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

Its not often i have them! but it just dawned on me that how is this constant need of having to have an open ES for the majority of their releases benefitiing them? Why has it changed?

If you ask me, putting an edition size on a piece would create more interest and sales rather than creating this open ES crap all the time. Like i said earlier, it wouldnt interfere with my decision when wanting to purchase an new item but i can see how having an ES would benefit each and every owner of that piece.

Take for instance the R2 and C3PO Exclusive, that has an ES of 250. Now i managed to get one of these and its a great feeling or bonus if you like to know that only another 249 were made like mine in the world but even if it had an open ES i would still have bought it at the asking price with no questions asked...

I thought the EX version was limited to 200 pieces?

 

[RobertoBagg10]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

Of course. What bothers Chris (and myself) is that peeps that choose to spend thousands on open ES pieces encourages SSC to continue that practice and expand it among their other merchandise. Other collectors like Chris and I are watching the very thing we hate as collectors (open ES and re releases) expand with the continued purchases of open ES pieces. For those of us staunchly against open ES pieces, we watch as each purchase leads to more of them. That can get frustrating. I believe that that's why Chris is so passionate about the subject and his posts came off a bit harsh. Purchases of open ES pieces will lead to more of them. That's the fact that doesn't sit well with collectors who don't like them. In the end, every collector gets to spend their money on whatever they want. Doing so on open ES pieces will lead ALL of us into a new era of collecting whether we like it or not.

Thanks for explaining your points filip. I can now understand you are both passionate about this subject. I was hoping you could explain why Sideshow have suddenly chosen to release the majority of their items as open ES's? How would this benefit them longterm?

I thought the EX version was limited to 200 pieces?

Your probably right, in which case its even better!!! i think out of the last 8 purchases i've recieved from Sideshow only 2 have had an ES!!! With that said, the Bats PF EX, Supes PF EX and Iron Man MKVI LSB that are yet to come actually have an ES....

 

[filip629]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

One question i have is how does having an open ES benefit Sideshow? Like you mentioned, it never used to be like this when i first started out collecting so wondered why more and more of their releases now have open ES's?

Look at the amount of money collectors are paying for SSC merch in the aftermarket. Doom, Hulk, Gambit, Ms Marvel, Cap, and Thor PFs to mention a few. Imagine if those pieces could be re released today because there was an open ES on them. How much money would SSC make on that? Any open ES piece that goes up in value is subject to getting re released. It benefits SSC greatly to have all their merch open ended. That's why it's trending that way.

 

[RobertoBagg10]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

Look at the amount of money collectors are paying for SSC merch in the aftermarket. Doom, Hulk, Gambit, Ms Marvel, Cap, and Thor PFs to mention a few. Imagine if those pieces could be re released today because there was an open ES on them. How much money would SSC make on that? Any open ES piece that goes up in value is subject to getting re released. It benefits SSC greatly to have all their merch open ended. That's why it's trending that way.

I see...but isnt it because those high aftermarket prices for pieces like Hulk, Doom, Cap, etc...was because they had an ES? If those pieces never had an ES then you would never see those pieces go for such crazy prices right?

I wonder how they decide which pieces should have an open ES and which ones should have it?

For example, i would have thought the Bats and Supes PF would have been chosen to have an open ES due to the popularity of the characters...then again the same goes for the Droids PF Exclusive...i've already seen the EX listed on eBay for something crazy like $1500

 

[filip629]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

I see...but isnt it because those high aftermarket prices for pieces like Hulk, Doom, Cap, etc...was because they had an ES? If those pieces never had an ES then you would never see those pieces go for such crazy prices right?

I wonder how they decide which pieces should have an open ES and which ones should have it?

For example, i would have thought the Bats and Supes PF would have been chosen to have an open ES due to the popularity of the characters...then again the same goes for the Droids PF Exclusive...i've already seen the EX listed on eBay for something crazy like $1500

Do high aftermarket prices benefit SSC? No, if anything, all SSC sees is lost revenue. A closed or low ES only benefits the collectors who are buying their merch at retail. SSC will give that to it's collectors from time to time because they know we like that. Hence the Droids and the white Storm PF. Hell, they built their business on a closed ES strategy. It just doesn't make sense for them in the long run. Not when they see collectors willing to spend thousands of dollars on open ES pieces. That is why I believe SSC is slowly trending to open ES for all their merch.

 

[Mose Harper]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

The following is all jmo...

Every time a piece sells in the aftermarket for multiples of its issue price, that is money the SS is not going to get for NEW product . If a collector choose to buy an old used piece, thats money he can' t put towards something new.
So what i think is going on is SS trying to shave off the perpetual aftermarket trade so that collectors resources are focused back on buying new merch rather than older. And with an open es, if they do want an older piece SS can still make the sale.
Yes they are alienating speculators and the collectors who buy frequently but arent committed to many pieces they own( and therefore flip it as soon as the novelty wears off and something even just slightly better comes along).
Of these two groups, the speculator is actually more dangerous to the hobby than open ES's, imo. They skew perceptions that drive the business and aesthetic choices companies make...and then when they get burned (from over speculation, from waning interest in a particular property, or their own outside misfortunes) they flee the hobby and the artificial demand goes with them leaving a huge sinkhole- similar to what happened in the comic book industry in the early nineties.
OTOH, if SS focuses on quality and value perception (both galactus and now doom seem to be better bang for the buck pieces than other recent lsf's and maquettes/pfs) then that should mitigate a lot of the negativity coming from those two alienated factions.

 

[SolidLiquidFox]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

I think the real point that Atheris is trying to make is that Collectors are letting SS off the hook by not demanding they number these, no matter how high the edition size.

Is it Sideshow Very Nice Things or Sideshow Collectibles?

Exactly. There is a reason why many people flocked to Sideshow about 7 years ago from lesser/cheaper hobbies. There was an understanding that these pieces were collectible. They were of high quality and worth spending up to $300 for them. Crazy, uh? Dudes that collected Legos, action figures, mini-busts, etc. all of the sudden moving up to pieces that costs hundreds. Why? the aftermarket proved that these things were fun, well made and retained/increased in value. That's how Sideshow became who they are today.

The amount of people that let Sideshow off the hook in this and other threads due to their excitement is surprising. Collect what you like and not worry about what's under the base because your other choice is not to buy it? That's admitting that as a consumer they are not offering the same value proposition anymore and some feel a bit ripped off in that. Particularly long term customers and supporters of the Sideshow brand/sculptors/culture.

These items are cool and fun, but let's keep it real. An edition size should be demanded when you spend this much. Even when you spend $400 for a PF. It shouldn't be "nice" if Sideshow does you a "favor" to give you one. That to me is a requirement at these prices and more so for a company that sells collectibles. It should be demanded whenever something you want from Sideshow is offered.

 

[Bmutha]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

Good discussion here...good points by all. Continue!

 

[Vader AL]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

The following is all jmo...

Every time a piece sells in the aftermarket for multiples of its issue price, that is money the SS is not going to get for NEW product . If a collector choose to buy an old used piece, thats money he can' t put towards something new.
So what i think is going on is SS trying to shave off the perpetual aftermarket trade so that collectors resources are focused back on buying new merch rather than older. And with an open es, if they do want an older piece SS can still make the sale.
Yes they are alienating speculators and the collectors who buy frequently but arent committed to many pieces they own( and therefore flip it as soon as the novelty wears off and something even just slightly better comes along).
Of these two groups, the speculator is actually more dangerous to the hobby than open ES's, imo. They skew perceptions that drive the business and aesthetic choices companies make...and then when they get burned (from over speculation, from waning interest in a particular property, or their own outside misfortunes) they flee the hobby and the artificial demand goes with them leaving a huge sinkhole- similar to what happened in the comic book industry in the early nineties.
OTOH, if SS focuses on quality and value perception (both galactus and now doom seem to be better bang for the buck pieces than other recent lsf's and maquettes/pfs) then that should mitigate a lot of the negativity coming from those two alienated factions.

Then SS needs to drop their prices and have open ES's.....they can't have their cake (prices due to limited pieces) and eat it too (have open ES's)...in the long term if they did that.

Although with this one they have the high price and open ES which will take out the flippers.

 

[wanderlai]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

I enjoy and appreciate collecting statues. One of the reasons I can justify spending so much on this hobby is that for the most part you can recoup your money if you decide to sell, for whatever reason. That only happens when there are X amount of something made. I like being only one of so many to have a statue. If everything were open edition I'd stop collecting today and wouldn't look back. I'd just find a new hobby.

 

[Collectorcol]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

It's quite simple...
If you like ES buy PF and leave LSF alone.
You're never going to convince everyone to stop buying until SS stop producing Open Editions. It's just not going to happen.
Collect what you are happy with and let others do likewise.

 

[filip629]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

The following is all jmo...

Every time a piece sells in the aftermarket for multiples of its issue price, that is money the SS is not going to get for NEW product . If a collector choose to buy an old used piece, thats money he can' t put towards something new.
So what i think is going on is SS trying to shave off the perpetual aftermarket trade so that collectors resources are focused back on buying new merch rather than older. And with an open es, if they do want an older piece SS can still make the sale.
Yes they are alienating speculators and the collectors who buy frequently but arent committed to many pieces they own( and therefore flip it as soon as the novelty wears off and something even just slightly better comes along).
Of these two groups, the speculator is actually more dangerous to the hobby than open ES's, imo. They skew perceptions that drive the business and aesthetic choices companies make...and then when they get burned (from over speculation, from waning interest in a particular property, or their own outside misfortunes) they flee the hobby and the artificial demand goes with them leaving a huge sinkhole- similar to what happened in the comic book industry in the early nineties.
OTOH, if SS focuses on quality and value perception (both galactus and now doom seem to be better bang for the buck pieces than other recent lsf's and maquettes/pfs) then that should mitigate a lot of the negativity coming from those two alienated factions.

I have an idea. Instead of SSC worrying about lost revenue in the aftermarket, how about they just release a kick @ss brand new sculpt of the character for us to enjoy.

For example, I passed on the Spidey PF when it was released. I just didn't like it. It increased in the aftermarket but I didn't care because it wasn't the Spidey statue for me. Low and behold, a new 1/4 scale Com was released and I was blown away by it. Many to this day consider it to be THE BEST Spidey statue ever made. Well, of course the statue skyrocketed in the aftermarket (because of a fairly low ES and it's a great sculpt). Now, collectors that missed out had to decide if they want to spend the aftermarket dollars that it commands to own it. However, now collectors have a choice to purchase the JSC Spidey Com. Look at that, a brand new statue for collectors to enjoy.

My whole point is SSC shouldn't be worrying about the money they are losing in the aftermarket because of closed ES. Instead, they should be looking to top the pieces they already made with new and better releases. That's a win-win for everyone. Oh, by the way, they should slap an ES on them as well. This is just my opinion on the topic.

 

[filip629]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

It's quite simple...
If you like ES buy PF and leave LSF alone.
You're never going to convince everyone to stop buying until SS stop producing Open Editions. It's just not going to happen.
Collect what you are happy with and let others do likewise.

I just hope open ES stays with the LSF line.

 

[Skiman]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

I have an idea. Instead of SSC worrying about lost revenue in the aftermarket, how about they just release a kick @ss brand new sculpt of the new characters for us to enjoy.

For example, I bought the Spidey PF when it was released. I just LOVED it. It increased in the aftermarket and it was AMAZING because it was the Spidey statue for me. Low and behold, a new 1/4 scale Com was released and it was ok... Many to this day consider it to be a good representation/fair statue. Well, of course the statue climbed a smidge in the aftermarket (because of a fairly low ES and it's a great sculpt). Now, collectors that missed out had to decide if they want to spend the aftermarket dollars that it commands to own it. However, now collectors have a choice to purchase the JSC Spidey Com. Look at that, a brand new statue for collectors to enjoy.

My whole point is SSC shouldn't be worrying about the money they are losing in the aftermarket because of closed ES. Instead, they should be looking to leave their top the pieces alone that they already made with new and better pajama releases. That's a win-win for everyone. Oh, by the way, they should slap an ES on them as well. This is just my opinion on the topic.

Ski

 

[filip629]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

I have an idea. Instead of SSC worrying about lost revenue in the aftermarket, how about they just release a kick @ss brand new sculpt of the new characters for us to enjoy.

For example, I bought the Spidey PF when it was released. I just LOVED it. It increased in the aftermarket and it was AMAZING because it was the Spidey statue for me. Low and behold, a new 1/4 scale Com was released and it was ok... Many to this day consider it to be a good representation/fair statue. Well, of course the statue climbed a smidge in the aftermarket (because of a fairly low ES and it's a great sculpt). Now, collectors that missed out had to decide if they want to spend the aftermarket dollars that it commands to own it. However, now collectors have a choice to purchase the JSC Spidey Com. Look at that, a brand new statue for collectors to enjoy.

My whole point is SSC shouldn't be worrying about the money they are losing in the aftermarket because of closed ES. Instead, they should be looking to leave their top the pieces alone that they already made with new and better pajama releases. That's a win-win for everyone. Oh, by the way, they should slap an ES on them as well. This is just my opinion on the topic.

Ski

Now you are finally talking some sense. Hi Ski!

 

[Collectorcol]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

I just hope open ES stays with the LSF line.

Hulk & Galactus

 

[wanderlai]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

Hulk & Galactus

SS weasels out of that since they are maquettes not PEr. Still don't like it though. I had Galactus but it had paint issues so I sent it back. Don't think I'll rebuy it either, but it was impressive minus the screwed up paint...lol.

 

[Drakul]

Re: Dr. Doom LSF!

And to just talk about the actual product for a sec, this LSF is stunning!!! It's a gorgeous piece. I cannot fit a 4' tall statue in my collection, nor would I justify spending 2K on any collector.

But if I did I think it's the finest LSF I've seen.