Enterbay - Rocky 1/4

[snoop101]

Rocky Balboa is one of my favorite. There is so much emotion and sadness in the last Rocky film. Very well written and the acting was superb. It was a much needed sequel to make up for Rocky 5 and I absolutely loved it. Sly has had an amazing run the last 10 yrs with Rocky 6, Rambo 4, & The Expendables 1 & 2. All were great films...

I agree, Im glad he made it. I was so upset with the series ending with V.

Stallone has a bunch of movies coming out this year too.

It's funny, usually, when directors try to go back to what they succeeded with, time and change in them shows and they don't capture the same magic, like George Lucas and Star Wars, I don't think he was the same making the 2nd trilogy as the first. Sly though, he spent so many years away from acting, and especially from Rocky and Rambo, but when he went back, he actually found all the magic that worked in the original films that he lost along the way in sequels, and that's why Rocky Balboa and Rambo work so well, they captures the magic of Rocky and First Blood, seasoned with some of the better points of the sequels, but honing in on what made the originals work so much. I think with Rocky 5, Sly thought a good route would be turning Rocky into the Mickey character and exploring that, but it didn't work, Rocky needs to stay Rocky, and it wasn't enough to go back to Philly with the Rocky director either. Sly remembered why Rocky was popular, his character, his heart, his determination, if you watch Rocky 5, the character's actually almost devoid of those traits Without a fight to pursue, there's no sense of his determination, and he seems to just go through the motions for the rest of the film. The flashback of Mickey and the brief when he makes up with his son are the only real moments of heart, hell, Adrian's lashing out at him was more emotion than you really got out of Rocky himself.

Agreed. I just hated the idea and direction Stallone went with for V. At the end of IV, Rocky was the best of the best, and rightfully so. V completely destroys all of that. No one wanted to see a poor, over the top (pun intended )retarded Rocky again. He loses his fortune, who he handed over to Pauly (for real? ), moves back to the old neighborhood and neglects his (magically a few years older) son while training a ungrateful boxer. One of if not the worst sequel of all time.

Thank God and Stallone for Rocky Balboa. It is the true fifth film as far as I am concerned.

 

[DEATHASYLUM]

I agree, Im glad he made it. I was so upset with the series ending with V.

Stallone has a bunch of movies coming out this year too.




Agreed. I just hated the idea and direction Stallone went with for V. At the end of IV, Rocky was the best of the best, and rightfully so. V completely destroys all of that. No one wanted to see a poor, over the top (pun intended )retarded Rocky again. He loses his fortune, who he handed over to Pauly (for real? ), moves back to the old neighborhood and neglects his (magically a few years older) son while training a ungrateful boxer. One of if not the worst sequel of all time.

Thank God and Stallone for Rocky Balboa. It is the true fifth film as far as I am concerned.

Sly has said it was greed that got the better of him in regards to Rocky 5. A huge mistake and he did it for the money. He owed it to the character and franchise to redeem himself. Sly did with Rocky Balboa.

 

[SAB]

I just hated the idea and direction Stallone went with for V. At the end of IV, Rocky was the best of the best, and rightfully so. V completely destroys all of that. No one wanted to see a poor, over the top (pun intended )retarded Rocky again. He loses his fortune, who he handed over to Pauly (for real? ), moves back to the old neighborhood and neglects his (magically a few years older) son while training a ungrateful boxer. One of if not the worst sequel of all time.

Thank God and Stallone for Rocky Balboa. It is the true fifth film as far as I am concerned.

He had the right initial concept.
Rocky 3 and 4 are fun as cartoon trash but they are actually fairly awful movies and have little to do the character or the first two.

Rocky 5 had the right idea of bringing things back but got it all wrong....at least it setup number 6 to do the job properly.

Sly has said it was greed that got the better of him in regards to Rocky 5. A huge mistake and he did it for the money. He owed it to the character and franchise to redeem himself. Sly did with Rocky Balboa.

I think he was also said he was going through a bad divorce at that stage and just didn't care enough.

 

[snoop101]

He had the right initial concept.
Rocky 3 and 4 are fun as cartoon trash but they are actually fairly awful movies and have little to do the character or the first two.

Rocky 5 had the right idea of bringing things back but got it all wrong....at least it setup number 6 to do the job properly.


I think he was also said he was going through a bad divorce at that stage and just didn't care enough.

"Cartoon trash?" Rocky III and IV aren't nearly as good as the first two, but in no way does that make them "trash." And as far as re-watchability goes, they're winners.

Rocky III has just as good of a story as the original. The intro of Eye of the tiger, Rockys rise to fame and fortune, losing his edge and Title to Clubber, Mickeys death, Apollo training Rocky, etc. all make for a great movie.

Rocky IV is almost the same as the third, which again, isn't at all a bad thing. Dolph Lundren as Drago, Apollos death, training sequences, Rocky getting revenge and beating the s**t out of Drago.

And no, Rocky V did not have the right idea. As DEATHASYLUM said, it was simply a cash grab for Stallone, which he has admitted. It did nothing to set-up the greatness of Rocky Balboa.

 

[snoop101]

Sly has said it was greed that got the better of him in regards to Rocky 5. A huge mistake and he did it for the money. He owed it to the character and franchise to redeem himself. Sly did with Rocky Balboa.

Agreed.

 

[MaulFan]

I think he was also said he was going through a bad divorce at that stage and just didn't care enough.

I've heard this attributed to his Rocky 4 / Rambo 3 physique as well, that he turned to the gym more than ever to deal with is and got bigger than ever.

 

[River Man]

Rocky V takes off pretty much where IV ended. Rocky suffering in the shower... plane trip home - where he's thrown into a press conference.
Did the reporters absolutely forget the epic fight that Rocky literally just had with Drago? They're worried about Duke trying get Rocky in the ring with Union Cane? The one reporter complained about Rocky not giving the press anything to write about...

Makes no sense!

But like you guys are saying, Rocky Balboa made up for V in a big way.

 

[SAB]

*double post....where did delete go?*

 

[SAB]

"Cartoon trash?" Rocky III and IV aren't nearly as good as the first two, but in no way does that make them "trash." And as far as re-watchability goes, they're winners.

Rocky III has just as good of a story as the original. The intro of Eye of the tiger, Rockys rise to fame and fortune, losing his edge and Title to Clubber, Mickeys death, Apollo training Rocky, etc. all make for a great movie.

Rocky IV is almost the same as the third, which again, isn't at all a bad thing. Dolph Lundren as Drago, Apollos death, training sequences, Rocky getting revenge and beating the s**t out of Drago.

And no, Rocky V did not have the right idea. As DEATHASYLUM said, it was simply a cash grab for Stallone, which he has admitted. It did nothing to set-up the greatness of Rocky Balboa.

By 'cartoon trash' I meant silly fun.

I'm not going to do an analysis of each film, but if you think Rocky3 is just as good as the original then our views on the universe may be too far apart to continue any sort of conversation

Stallone motivation in 1989 is not relevant as to whether or not it unintentionally provided a spring board for the next one. It did setup Rocky6 because it got rid of the talking robot, and the mega rich superman that could end the cold war through the healing power of punching. Rocky6 again had Rocky as an over the hill loser on the streets of the city that's such a part of the character. It was a great book end to the first movie and that would have been way harder to pull off without number 5 setting the correct stage to do so ....even if number 5 itself was fairly awful.

 

[vik2001]

i would love to see a accurate 1/6 Rocky figure from one of these companys with the black hat on.

 

[snappahead]

By 'cartoon trash' I meant silly fun.

I'm not going to do an analysis of each film, but if you think Rocky3 is just as good as the original then our views on the universe may be too far apart to continue any sort of conversation

Stallone motivation in 1989 is not relevant as to whether or not it unintentionally provided a spring board for the next one. It did setup Rocky6 because it got rid of the talking robot, and the mega rich superman that could end the cold war through the healing power of punching. Rocky6 again had Rocky as an over the hill loser on the streets of the city that's such a part of the character. It was a great book end to the first movie and that would have been way harder to pull off without number 5 setting the correct stage to do so ....even if number 5 itself was fairly awful.

yeah, I agree with this. I'm a huge fan of the series and still really enjoy 3 and 4 for what they are, but they're almost different genres from the first two.

I actually liked 5 but mostly because I just love characters. I agree that it set up 6 to be the perfect final act.

 

[snoop101]

By 'cartoon trash' I meant silly fun.

I'm not going to do an analysis of each film, but if you think Rocky3 is just as good as the original then our views on the universe may be too far apart to continue any sort of conversation

Stallone motivation in 1989 is not relevant as to whether or not it unintentionally provided a spring board for the next one. It did setup Rocky6 because it got rid of the talking robot, and the mega rich superman that could end the cold war through the healing power of punching. Rocky6 again had Rocky as an over the hill loser on the streets of the city that's such a part of the character. It was a great book end to the first movie and that would have been way harder to pull off without number 5 setting the correct stage to do so ....even if number 5 itself was fairly awful.

Of course Rocky III and IV aren't as good as the original. But they still have a bunch of cool elements (especially three) that make them great additions to the Rocky series.

Not sure what you mean by Rocky V setting up Rocky Balboa. The movie isn't called Rocky 6 for a reason. It got rid of the talking robot? How is that even relevent? . And you thought he was a "over the hill loser" in Rocky Balboa? Washed up, sure. But who isn't when they're 60+ years old. I think you misinterpret what Stallone was going for in Rocky Balboa. He wanted it to be more like the first two films, where the viewer felt sorry for Rocky. He did however set that up perfectly with Adrian being deceased and his struggling relationship with his son, not with Rocky V.

I would even say that Rocky Balboa does its best to try and ignore V. It shows flash back scenes from every film except V, Rocky isn't fully retarded (in V he went way over the top with his goofiness lol), He still has money, from what we can tell with him owning a successful resturaunt, He passes his physical with "flying colors" and can now box, and he no longer has brain damage (which doesn't just go away magically)

The point is that absolutely no thought even went into V, Stallone has even said the he simply did if for more money, and it shows. He's even has said how much he doesn't like V, and wishes he didn't do it. That was part of his motivation for making another film, to end the series on a goodnote. Rocky Balboa is intended to be and is the "real" sequel.

 

[snappahead]

What he's saying is that if you jumped from 4 to 6 (Balboa), you might feel like you're missing something. The place Rocky's at in his life in Balboa was set up in 5.

Doesn't Rocky say "home team" to his son in Balboa? I thought I heard that. Not that any of this matters...

 

[SAB]

Of course Rocky III and IV aren't as good as the original. But they still have a bunch of cool elements (especially three) that make them great additions to the Rocky series.

Not sure what you mean by Rocky V setting up Rocky Balboa. The movie isn't called Rocky 6 for a reason. It got rid of the talking robot? How is that even relevent? . And you thought he was a "over the hill loser" in Rocky Balboa? Washed up, sure. But who isn't when they're 60+ years old. I think you misinterpret what Stallone was going for in Rocky Balboa. He wanted it to be more like the first two films, where the viewer felt sorry for Rocky. He did however set that up perfectly with Adrian being deceased and his struggling relationship with his son, not with Rocky V.

I would even say that Rocky Balboa does its best to try and ignore V. It shows flash back scenes from every film except V, Rocky isn't fully retarded (in V he went way over the top with his goofiness lol), He still has money, from what we can tell with him owning a successful resturaunt, He passes his physical with "flying colors" and can now box, and he no longer has brain damage (which doesn't just go away magically)

The point is that absolutely no thought even went into V, Stallone has even said the he simply did if for more money, and it shows. He's even has said how much he doesn't like V, and wishes he didn't do it. That was part of his motivation for making another film, to end the series on a goodnote. Rocky Balboa is intended to be and is the "real" sequel.

Of course thought went into 5.
If it didn't it would have been exactly like 4 which was pretty much the same as 3. New bad guy kills friend and Rocky needs revenge. (PAULY NOOOOO! ...done). That's easy.
Stallone wanted to do something different and had the basic concepts but half arsed it and screwed it all up. I remember the interviews at the time. He was quite clear that he wanted to take Rocky out of his fairytale ending (and he used that term multiple times) and return him to the real world. No ones arguing that he pulled it off. He screwed it up badly.

The robot was indicative of the silliness of number 4 and I was making a joke. Number 5 setup 6 by putting him back as the underdog on the streets of his city. No he doesn't still have money. He lives in a tiny house and his restaurant is a small eatery, not the establishment of a millionaire celebrity.

The naming convention of Rocky6 and Rambo4 is due to financial box office reasons and the belief in books/video games/movies that it helps draw in more buyers who may not have every sequel.
Yeah he ignores the brain damage issue and Stallone's hilarious explanation for that is they have better medical equipment now and things can settle after time. He had to ignore it if he wanted to make 6. Its not the first time in the series that the story ignores all logic in order to setup a fight....

There are no flashbacks from 5 because there was nothing worth showing that wasn't better served by earlier movies. I wasn't arguing that 5 was good. Fun fact, there are no Apollo flashbacks because Carl Weathers wanted $100K and a part in a newly filmed flashback (think Mick in Rocky5). They had a falling out over it. Most likely that's why Weathers hasn't appeared in Expendables.

This conversation is just bizarre.
I made a one line comment that 5's only redeeming feature is that it provides a starting point for 6 and then its post after post of 'no! nothing! only money!' like it exists completely in a vacuum.
If its that important to you that it can't even be considered then fine - Six would have been the same if it had of been set in Hollywood with multi millionaire Rocky in his massive mansion. Sweet.

I'm not writing another post talking about a movie I don't even like.

 

[SAB]

What he's saying is that if you jumped from 4 to 6 (Balboa), you might feel like you're missing something. The place Rocky's at in his life in Balboa was set up in 5.

Doesn't Rocky say "home team" to his son in Balboa? I thought I heard that. Not that any of this matters...

welll thats a much shorter easier way to say it

 

[snoop101]

Of course thought went into 5.
If it didn't it would have been exactly like 4 which was pretty much the same as 3. New bad guy kills friend and Rocky needs revenge. (PAULY NOOOOO! ...done). That's easy.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I'm sorry but I don't believe for one second that any substantial effort or thought was put into V. Especially when the man himself has said that it was a "huge mistake." Stallones exact quote:

"I'm greedy - what can I tell you? It was a huge mistake because the audience didn't want to see the downside of the character. They wanted him to remain on top. I should have known that. I fell into a sense of self-parody."

Stallone wanted to do something different

This is where you're wrong. He didn't want to do something different, he wanted more money, he admits this. Five lacks heart and determination of the other films because Sly half assed everything. His ideas for V were absolutely awful. End of story.

and had the basic concepts but half arsed it and screwed it all up. I remember the interviews at the time. He was quite clear that he wanted to take Rocky out of his fairytale ending (and he used that term multiple times) and return him to the real world. No ones arguing that he pulled it off. He screwed it up badly.

The robot was indicative of the silliness of number 4 and I was making a joke. Number 5 setup 6 by putting him back as the underdog on the streets of his city. No he doesn't still have money. He lives in a tiny house and his restaurant is a small eatery, not the establishment of a millionaire celebrity.

The naming convention of Rocky6 and Rambo4 is due to financial box office reasons and the belief in books/video games/movies that it helps draw in more buyers who may not have every sequel.
Yeah he ignores the brain damage issue and Stallone's hilarious explanation for that is they have better medical equipment now and things can settle after time. He had to ignore it if he wanted to make 6. Its not the first time in the series that the story ignores all logic in order to setup a fight....

There are no flashbacks from 5 because there was nothing worth showing that wasn't better served by earlier movies. I wasn't arguing that 5 was good. Fun fact, there are no Apollo flashbacks because Carl Weathers wanted $100K and a part in a newly filmed flashback (think Mick in Rocky5). They had a falling out over it. Most likely that's why Weathers hasn't appeared in Expendables.

This conversation is just bizarre.
I made a one line comment that 5's only redeeming feature is that it provides a starting point for 6 and then its post after post of 'no! nothing! only money!' like it exists completely in a vacuum.
If its that important to you that it can't even be considered then fine - Six would have been the same if it had of been set in Hollywood with multi millionaire Rocky in his massive mansion. Sweet.

I'm not writing another post talking about a movie I don't even like.

Quit trying to justify V by saying that it "set up" the story for Rocky Balboa, when we all know that's not true.

How is discussing a Rocky movie in a "Rocky" related thread bizzare?

 

[snappahead]

I don't see anyone trying to "justify" Rocky 5. I get that you didn't like it, but arguing that it has no relevance in the Rocky timeline is a stretch. Stallone may not have referenced it much, but he couldnt erase it from continuity. Hence, Rocky Balboa starts with him back in the old neighborhood without any explanations as to how he got there. 5 explained all that already.

 

[snoop101]

I don't see anyone trying to "justify" Rocky 5. I get that you didn't like it, but arguing that it has no relevance in the Rocky timeline is a stretch. Stallone may not have referenced it much, but he couldnt erase it from continuity. Hence, Rocky Balboa starts with him back in the old neighborhood without any explanations as to how he got there. 5 explained all that already.

Who does like it?

Yeah, well Five also explained that Rocky had BRAIN DAMAGE, where is that in Rocky Balboa?

There are plenty of cases of movie sequels that ignore the previous films.

Rocky Balboa
Highlander 3
Superman Returns
Halloween H20
Excorcist 3
Star trek 6
X-men first class
Jaws the revenge

 

[snappahead]

Interesting list. I haven't seen all those, but Rocky Balboa doesn't belong there. Neither does First Class since it was a prequel.

Anyways, in Rocky 2, they made a big deal about his bad eye. Going so far as to say he was retired, but they didn't talk about that in the sequels. Just because certain elements weren't mentioned, doesn't mean the whole film was erased. If it had been, he would've needed to explain why he was back in the old neighborhood.

 

[snoop101]

Interesting list. I haven't seen all those, but Rocky Balboa doesn't belong there. Neither does First Class since it was a prequel.

Anyways, in Rocky 2, they made a big deal about his bad eye. Going so far as to say he was retired, but they didn't talk about that in the sequels. Just because certain elements weren't mentioned, doesn't mean the whole film was erased. If it had been, he would've needed to explain why he was back in the old neighborhood.

It should be. It ignores five the best it can. And ignoring an eye issue isn't nearly as big of a deal as ignoring the fact that he was diagnosed with Brain damage in V. If you think five is part of the continuity, then Rocky Balboa shouldn't even exist.

Wrong again. First class ignores X-men III. Xavier is paralyzed at the end of FC, ignoring X3 which shows Xavier walking during his first encounter with Jean.