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Not to mention, by re-issuing a figure that is now deemed 'rare', it loses value. I would love if collectors who missed out on Cloud could get him, but I'd also be upset that they've decided to re-issue a figure I had to pay 200% markup on to receive. (Because I also did not like the prototype, granted it was and still is the best 1/6 Cloud on the market)

Live and let learn. Won't be missing a single PO from now on, I'm sure others can relate. :lol
Can't win em all
 
You guys got me thinking. I wonder ... how many GT figures are actually made during production? Is it really below 1000? 500 even? I know they don't come with COAs but that would be pretty cool to know the number of the figure you've received.
 
In all fairness that was still a conscious decision you made. Even before the fix their Cloud was still the best one on the market.
It was a conccious decision a lot of people made because it didn't look good until he fixed it.
If you wait you might miss out then have to pay aftermarket prices based on demand, that's just how collectibles work. There's always someone that didn't get one, they can't just keep reissuing.
It was different because the changes made happened when the preorders had long since closed and the roasting of the VTS toys cloud came about, people didn't like paying more money for something mediocre. I assume this is why he's started making such adjustments before the figure is able to be pre-ordered, to maximize sales and profits of his one off runs.
 
in all fairness, I had zero interest in their Cloud until they fixed the sculpt. By that point it was too late to get him for a decent price, and interest had peaked. I now thankfully have a couple, but there's no way I would've gotten them before the fix.
You have a couple!?! Dangit...im still trying to get one that is under $500
 
I understand the destruction of the molds to prevent others from making duplicates but what stops them from making molds out of the figures themselves? Of course theres going to be a lot of discrepancies and imperfections if they go that route but I can see it happening in the future, eventually.
There's always the chance but that is other companies' Square Enix will have to deal with, not necessarily Game Toys.

It was a conccious decision a lot of people made because it didn't look good until he fixed it.

It was different because the changes made happened when the preorders had long since closed and the roasting of the VTS toys cloud came about, people didn't like paying more money for something mediocre. I assume this is why he's started making such adjustments before the figure is able to be pre-ordered, to maximize sales and profits of his one off runs.
I think this needs to be clear up once and for all. I was in the initial threads when Game Toys announced Cloud and the boss/insider has commented a few times that he will be revising various things such as the sculpt accuracy (including sharing that the game models differs from scene to scene even in CGI) and suit material, body proportions (which he wasn't satisfied with because Cloud is too bulky in the initial photos especially on the shoulders/traps) etc. There was never any mention about height adjustment like what some users here think there is just because VTS Cloud exists. They are completely separate companies with different agendas.

It was always in the plan to use Ichigo's body (previous Game Toy's release) for Sephiroth (given the similarities in physique) and Cloud would naturally be produced to fit Sephiroth's height difference and physique. I would argue that Ichigo is oversized given he's a teenager but then Game Toys already had plans for the body so it's a win win situation for them.

The pre-order was put up simply to get an estimate numbers for production purpose since this is their 'big' release after their first 2 anime related release, Bleach (Ichigo and Hollow Ichigo) and they knew FF7 will be hitting wider and further due to the amount of fans in 1/6 space for the series. Pricing wise, it was not even expensive and if I recall correctly, only slighly more than Ichigo's pre-order pricing (which is about less than 180).

All pre-orders photos are never final, it runs the same for official licensesors like Hot Toys, DamToys, ThreeZero, Blitzway, etc because production line issues can happen and changes can still happen. Most if not all companies actually include that disclaimer in their pre-order product page and photos itself. As a collector you either pre-order and be satisifed with the pre-order photos and hope the changes are for the better or you suck it up and wait for product release and getting them at an inflated price, especially if it's limited release.

That is all to it, no conspiracy about how adjustments are done just because VTS Cloud releases first, because by then it's too late in the production line to pull back and revise things not to mention exhorbitantly expensive to do that. Game Toys walk their own path just like how VTS do.
 
There's always the chance but that is other companies' Square Enix will have to deal with, not necessarily Game Toys.


I think this needs to be clear up once and for all. I was in the initial threads when Game Toys announced Cloud and the boss/insider has commented a few times that he will be revising various things such as the sculpt accuracy (including sharing that the game models differs from scene to scene even in CGI) and suit material, body proportions (which he wasn't satisfied with because Cloud is too bulky in the initial photos especially on the shoulders/traps) etc. There was never any mention about height adjustment like what some users here think there is just because VTS Cloud exists. They are completely separate companies with different agendas.

It was always in the plan to use Ichigo's body (previous Game Toy's release) for Sephiroth (given the similarities in physique) and Cloud would naturally be produced to fit Sephiroth's height difference and physique. I would argue that Ichigo is oversized given he's a teenager but then Game Toys already had plans for the body so it's a win win situation for them.

The pre-order was put up simply to get an estimate numbers for production purpose since this is their 'big' release after their first 2 anime related release, Bleach (Ichigo and Hollow Ichigo) and they knew FF7 will be hitting wider and further due to the amount of fans in 1/6 space for the series. Pricing wise, it was not even expensive and if I recall correctly, only slighly more than Ichigo's pre-order pricing (which is about less than 180).

All pre-orders photos are never final, it runs the same for official licensesors like Hot Toys, DamToys, ThreeZero, Blitzway, etc because production line issues can happen and changes can still happen. Most if not all companies actually include that disclaimer in their pre-order product page and photos itself. As a collector you either pre-order and be satisifed with the pre-order photos and hope the changes are for the better or you suck it up and wait for product release and getting them at an inflated price, especially if it's limited release.

That is all to it, no conspiracy about how adjustments are done just because VTS Cloud releases first, because by then it's too late in the production line to pull back and revise things not to mention exhorbitantly expensive to do that. Game Toys walk their own path just like how VTS do.

It's really not fair to lecture people about either being "satisfied with the pre-order photos" or "sucking it up" when it's an untested company and even established ones usually release product that looks noticeably worse than the promotional photos, like all the examples you listed. Like GT themselves, even (their Sephiroth, which released first, has the usual downgraded face paint that comes with being mass produced). GT's Cloud being so obviously better than the prototype is an extreme rarity.

The people who pre-ordered the GT Cloud got lucky. Nobody was predicting they'd completely toss out the head and successfully improve on the old one, completely toss out the body and make an entirely new one, completely toss out the clothes and retailor them in a different material and color. Even if the company was saying they would, that hardly means anything in this industry (how many times does Asmus insist they'll fix things and then they just don't).
 
It's really not fair to lecture people about either being "satisfied with the pre-order photos" or "sucking it up" when it's an untested company and even established ones usually release product that looks noticeably worse than the promotional photos, like all the examples you listed. Like GT themselves, even (their Sephiroth, which released first, has the usual downgraded face paint that comes with being mass produced). GT's Cloud being so obviously better than the prototype is an extreme rarity.

The people who pre-ordered the GT Cloud got lucky. Nobody was predicting they'd completely toss out the head and successfully improve on the old one, completely toss out the body and make an entirely new one, completely toss out the clothes and retailor them in a different material and color. Even if the company was saying they would, that hardly means anything in this industry (how many times does Asmus insist they'll fix things and then they just don't).
Most of the sellers only take a deposit and you are free to look around for sellers who can do a better deposit range, unlike companies like Hot Toys, Blitzway, Enterbay who dictate a certain amount of deposit pricing for fulfillment, GT (and most third party companies) do not have this pre-requisite.

Like I mentioned earlier in the same reply, GT has taken note and actually shared that the pre-order images are not final but they need to know the production amount. Even in that thread people were giving feedbacks/complaints which GT has noted. (at least until the thread disappears) Not being privy to the manufacturer (and in a different language) notes is something that can't be helped but at the same time how many notes/feedback are enough from collectors without it starting to become just "oh another thing to add on?". The first and foremost GT boss wanted is to satisfy his own "ideal" Cloud so I do not think it's reasonable for collectors to have too much inputs during the process because everyone's ideal figure is different.

Looking back at my message as a whole, I have described the exact situation that unfolded during Cloud's pre-order up till release, mentioned it here a few times on what is happening with the situation (since I understand the language in the forum) yet people still ran with "they got VTS to compare and adjust after release" which is just mind boggling. My entire message is to address that particular issue because it keeps getting used as a narrative despite what Walter already shared several pages back.

All companies starts out as an unknown, you just have to take a leap of faith if you really wanted some representation of the figure you want. End of the day as a consumer you are free to comment and complain about the inaccuracies but ultimately you hold the power on giving the money to the manufacturer. As far as I know, most worldwide distributor/sellers only take a nominal deposit to ensure you wouldn't bounce when it comes to release and very rarely in full. The timeline given for GT Cloud was up for a while for most sites and in this very thread you see people commenting on "maybe yes, maybe no" then. Even so, there was still a reasonable amount of Cloud available after release, though at a slightly inflated price due to the amount of attention it has gotten and these people think there's a chance of re-runs and are unwilling to pay more for it. Still, many have gotten it until it completely dried up and then you get the same people asking for re-runs because they 'missed' out. So if you don't want to miss out, you can and should place a pre-order deposit or at least find one seller that would allow you to do so.

Saying those who got it are lucky is ignoring the fact that this thread was running for a long while and many others have and attest that GT are legit in terms of quality since they have already previously release 2 figures which some collectors (including me) have.

Maybe it works differently in your country but if you are getting figures directly from a distributor/source you are only putting up a deposit which you can give it up or transfer it if it's not to your liking (depending on the place's policies) after release. If you are paying full in advance for a order that may or may not release within the stipulated timeline, then you may want to consider switching your purchasing tactics, especially if it's from an unknown/third party companies.

While I do feel sorry for those who hopped on the hype train way too late but it is what it is in this collector's space. The collectors only can take comfort in the fact that there will always be a chance another company or even official companies will do a figure again.
 
Figure companies say and promise a lot of things which they never deliver on. The final product almost always looks worse than the prototype. Especially with unlicensed figures preorders are a gamble, so just placing a preorder for giggles, hoping for the extremely rare case that the final product turns out better than the prototype, makes no sense. If you cancel you lose the money you paid for the deposit. Cancellations even lead some shops to restrict or close your account. Add to that, that this was an unknown company which most people didn't even know existed (unless you happened to stumble on this specific thread in this specific forum), and only found out about after preorders were already closed, it makes little sense to say that people should have just preordered.

Cloud's protoype didn't look very good, the company was unknown, so chances were that the final product would look bad, like many 3rd party figures. The situation is completely different now that GT have released several figures and people know how they operate and what to expect from their products. So yes, collectors who preordered GT Remake Cloud took a gamble and got lucky. They could have just as easily lost. This was a very rare occasion in the hobby.
 
I did not preorder GTs Cloud because he seriously looked very bad in those promotional pics. So bad there was no way I could justify the preorder. I simply thought "theres no way in hell this will come out good if even the pics look this bad". He didnt look nothing like Cloud in the face, and I really thought he was ugly, and why would I put my money on something I disliked that much. Even a preorder fee was a big nope.
I knew nothing of GT back then, it was just another random, unknown, company like all of the rest that suddenly surfaced and begun spewing out FF figures and statues that looked great in the promotional pics but awful on release. And here was this company called Game Toys that didnt even have good promos, why would I put my trust or even hope in them?

Later on, when I saw the released Cloud from GT I didnt think it was from them, I thought it was yet another new company that had appeared. When I finally realized it was from the same with those very bad promo pics I was totally surprised. And then I went and got Cloud on the aftermarket. Sure a tad more expensive but well worth it as I knew I would get a very amazing figure that I would utterly love to have.
And now I will preorder from GT no matter what their promo pics may look like, cause now I trust and know them better, and know their skills.

But like, lets say yet another company show up in the future that will make amazing figures but start of with showing horrible promo pics, it will be the very same all over again. I wouldnt preorder from them until I knew what they were truly capable of. I can gamble on figures no prob, I have done so with Dragon Studios Sephiroth for instance. However in that case I saw great pictures and went into "WANT mode" haha. But I wouldnt gamble on something that left me in a "Unwant mode" from seeing the pics. XD This is just how I work tho.
 
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Figure companies say and promise a lot of things which they never deliver on. The final product almost always looks worse than the prototype. Especially with unlicensed figures preorders are a gamble, so just placing a preorder for giggles, hoping for the extremely rare case that the final product turns out better than the prototype, makes no sense. If you cancel you lose the money you paid for the deposit. Cancellations even lead some shops to restrict or close your account. Add to that, that this was an unknown company which most people didn't even know existed (unless you happened to stumble on this specific thread in this specific forum), and only found out about after preorders were already closed, it makes little sense to say that people should have just preordered.

Cloud's protoype didn't look very good, the company was unknown, so chances were that the final product would look bad, like many 3rd party figures. The situation is completely different now that GT have released several figures and people know how they operate and what to expect from their products. So yes, collectors who preordered GT Remake Cloud took a gamble and got lucky. They could have just as easily lost. This was a very rare occasion in the hobby.
Saying those who got it are lucky is ignoring the fact that this thread was running for a long while and many others have and attest that GT are legit in terms of quality since they have already previously release 2 figures which some collectors (including me) have.

Believed I have covered exactly that issue because this thread has run so long and many people have forgotten what it was like then and there are many newer collectors who are not privy to what happened then. And no, placing deposit for giggles is for brats, I accepted how it looks like at pre-order photos because at that point it's the closest to 1/6 scale Cloud figure we will probably get for a long while. Having it being improved before release is a pleasant, welcome surprise but not something I'm expecting. If anything, we wouldn't even be having this conversation if the figure turns out for the worse but because it didn't people who didn't placed a pre-order or managed to get it before it went completely out of stock are now complaining about it.

If you don't think it can be improved after the photos or not satisfied with how it looks then you shouldn't place any orders which it's completely fine but to cry foul that you 'missed' out (when you have ample opportunities before) and say it shouldn't be this way feels entitled imo. You even have the choice of buying it after it was released (albeit at a shorter time period and limited stocks) so it is what it is if you really missed out. I have figures that some people criticized the hell out of but I'm completely fine with it. It is why I said early in my post that how each collector define their 'ideal' figure is different from one another.

Do you want this figure badly from this series/story you enjoy? Is this the only current company doing it at the moment? Are you ok with the pre-order pictures? Are you fine with the deposit amount? If you answer yes to all then you accept it at the images it was released then, everything else is a bonus.
 
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Saying those who got it are lucky is ignoring the fact that this thread was running for a long while and many others have and attest that GT are legit in terms of quality since they have already previously release 2 figures which some collectors (including me) have.

Believed I have covered exactly that issue because this thread has run so long and many people have forgotten what it was like then and there are many newer collectors who are not privy to what happened then.

If you don't think it can be improved after the photos or not satisfied with how it looks then you shouldn't place any orders which it's completely fine but to cry foul that you 'missed' out and say it shouldn't be this way feels entitled imo. You even have the choice of buying it after it was released (albeit at a shorter time period and limited stocks) so it is what it is if you really missed out. I have figures that some people criticized the hell out of but I'm completely fine with it. It is why I said early in my post that how each collector define their 'ideal' figure is different from one another.

Do you want this figure badly from this series/story you enjoy? Is there only one such manufacturer that's doing it? Are you ok with the pictures? If you answer yes to all then you accept it at the images it was released then, everything else is a bonus.
I haven't cried foul or complained, who are you talking to? I don't even want that figure because I prefer the AC look, and I secured a copy of that figure. What I was getting at was that you seem to be viewing this from inside your bubble. Not everyone happened to be on this forum and in this thread at that specific time. That doesn't mean that these people are new collectors, being on this forum is not a requirement to collecting. Those people just saw the not very good-looking prototype on shop websites. Now they are expressing disappointment that they missed out. Is that so hard to understand that you need to lecture them? I think not.
 
I haven't cried foul or complained, who are you talking to? I don't even want that figure because I prefer the AC look, and I secured a copy of that figure. What I was getting at was that you seem to be viewing this from inside your bubble. Not everyone happened to be on this forum and in this thread at that specific time. That also doesn't mean that these people are new collectors, being on this forum is not a requirement to collecting. Those people just saw the not very good-looking prototype on shop websites. Now they are expressing disappointment that they missed out. Is that so hard to understand that you need to lecture them? I think not.
Talking to people in this very thread who cried foul. Plenty of it.

Like I worded very succintly in my previous post, while I do feel sorry for those who hopped on the hype train way too late but it is what it is in this collector's space. The collectors only can take comfort in the fact that there will always be a chance another company or even official companies will do a figure again.

But sure, let's hyper focus on my certain points instead of looking at it as a whole.
 
It's really not fair to lecture people about either being "satisfied with the pre-order photos" or "sucking it up" when it's an untested company and even established ones usually release product that looks noticeably worse than the promotional photos, like all the examples you listed. Like GT themselves, even (their Sephiroth, which released first, has the usual downgraded face paint that comes with being mass produced). GT's Cloud being so obviously better than the prototype is an extreme rarity.
The thing about gametoy's Sephiroth was, it still looked way closer to the prototype, Cloud's face sculpt went through a significant change after VTS botched theirs, and GT's Sephiroth came out to rave reviews. I've honestly never seen a company make this kind of improvement before. The only comparison would be if Asmus's Dante from DMC3 was delayed months from it's OG release and then looked like the soon to be current release. The changes were small, yet so damned significant!
 
You have a couple!?! Dangit...im still trying to get one that is under $500
yeah, literal couple, both with bikes, thanks to a kind couple of members of the forums who helped when I asked here, I managed to get on Cloud reasonably because he was busted......I managed to fix him so he proudly stands on my shelf awaiting Zack, who i paid in full as soon as I had cash because I wasn't playing russian oulette again. Other Cloud I paid way more for, but it's sitting in a box at the moment.
I'd never ordered from aliexpress before and bought the other as a backup since I got screwed over for pre orders before on Genos and on Hunk.
I wouldn't reissue Cloud if I’m Gametoys. I would rather do an improved version for FF7: rebirth Cloud and sell more of it. And I hope and believe that AC Cloud will blow REMAKE Cloud out of the water.
There's certainly room for improvement, a metallic buster sword, bluer shoulder pad, and more correct hair and boots would go a long way, but I probably wouldn't get it outside of the sword because I prefer their hybrid look/earlier promo Clour look better than in game. They'd probably also go for a silicon body.

I'd love a Barret, and Dyne eventually, but I doubt either will make it because of the uniqueness.
 
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no need to argue for these things,each collector have their own perpective.we discuss,gave our thoughts,opinions.

in our china market,gamble on figure final product quality is quite normal. preorder it if you like to get the product first hand,or wait for the stock after release. some price drop,some increase.

gt product current trend is price increasing after preorder closed,before releasing. zack price is increasing,it will be more expensive once released.

here is some pic.
below show the number of times of zack head sculpt revised.

ac cloud on zack body. which showcase why proportion of figure is important.

and i pretty sure they will be an ac version of Sephiroth.
without the wing.

silicone seamless body on Sephiroth?
new ac version headsculpt?

cant wait.
 

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no need to argue for these things,each collector have their own perpective.we discuss,gave our thoughts,opinions.

in our china market,gamble on figure final product quality is quite normal. preorder it if you like to get the product first hand,or wait for the stock after release. some price drop,some increase.

gt product current trend is price increasing after preorder closed,before releasing. zack price is increasing,it will be more expensive once released.

here is some pic.
below show the number of times of zack head sculpt revised.

ac cloud on zack body. which showcase why proportion of figure is important.

and i pretty sure they will be an ac version of Sephiroth.
without the wing.

silicone seamless body on Sephiroth?
new ac version headsculpt?

cant wait.
Wow, Zack has been through a lot of changes. You can see the improvements with the latest folder. The eyes are looking a lot more like the prototype now. Unless that is the prototype. Is the boss happy?
Side-glancing Cloud looks soooo good.
 
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