Future of DC Films (DCEU)

[csutkakoma]

It was huge in the comics because they left it decades before doing it and they only did it due to poor comic sales and to emphasize his importance.

Snyder also used it to show the world how important Superman is, he just did it earlier to progress the story and the need for the league.

You are doing what ironwez is doing and basing what is right on how you think it should play out because of other interpretations.

In a 5 part movie arc, that brings at least 6 main superhero characters together plus a Steppenwolf invasion and then a Darkseid invasion when is the best time to kill off Superman?

That is my opinion T800 and I am gonna stick to it. I would kill him off after the huge Darkseid story arc when you actually care about Superman. Also Synder tried to show how important Superman is but he failed because the character was not developed enough. He bearly showed up in the DC universe and he bearly had anything to do and did anything. He had one movie and he just died in his second.

 

[Mondragon]

Controversial!
Shazam > Entire Snyderverse

Which should have lead to this epic vs. xrossover -
Mr. Mind induced battle royal:

Billy vs Superman
Mary vs WonderWoman
Feddy vs Batman
Darla vs Flash
Pedro vs Green Lantern/Aquaman
Eugene vs Cyborg

As to why DC cinematic U failed and will continue to fail.
It's the decided ignorant stance and mindset that the DC lynchpin Batman Films (which should be part of the corner stone to building and launching a DCU), are treated as having to be separate, cause his is a supposedly more "real" universe. And fans mindlessly parroting that ignorant sentiment.
They are the biggest problem.

When it is precisely Batman's supposed "real" wold POV that should be used as the audience surrogate character, to launching the perceived as intrusive, supernatural incredible new Universe.
That is the exact reaction Batman should have, forced to contend with a world and beings that don't "fit" his reality, intruding to "his" pov. his city, his world, is precisely true to the character, and the exact story that should be told coming off an established Batman run. That is the launch of the DCU.

 

[ironwez20]

I feel like you're missing my point.
The writer of the interpretation decides what lore goes into their story and how. When they decide what should happen IT IS SET.
Your expectations of how his interpretation should go are the problem here. There's nothing wrong with not liking the direction but saying it is wrong is incorrect. Many others watched it and loved it, even fans of the interpretations that came before.

No it wasn’t my expectations. You keep saying that. It was how it was portrayed. It wasn’t done well. It was rushed. There was nothing earned. I had no expectations for lotr cause everything that happened wasn’t rushed. I don’t know why you’re comparing the two. It’s not a good comparison. In lotr the story was written years ago and they followed it the right way. It was shocking but gandalfs death made sense. Superman’s death didn’t feel earned in the slightest

 

[Hoody999]

I feel like you're missing my point.
The writer of the interpretation decides what lore goes into their story and how. When they decide what should happen IT IS SET.
Your expectations of how his interpretation should go are the problem here. There's nothing wrong with not liking the direction but saying it is wrong is incorrect. Many others watched it and loved it, even fans of the interpretations that came before.

Right on.

I feel sorry for comic readers sometimes as they come into these movie interpretations with so much baggage of what should and shouldn't happen according to their bias.

But anyway no one ever changes their opinion in any of these online "debates" so what's the point. I enjoyed it immensly. If you don't like it then don't watch it I guess.

 

[Chris]

In a 5 part movie arc, that brings at least 6 main superhero characters together plus a Steppenwolf invasion and then a Darkseid invasion when is the best time to kill off Superman?

The simple answer here is you don't. You don't cram 10 films worth of content into 5 films. You don't stick the death of Superman onto the end of his second film or his return into the first JL team up.

Obviously you can do it because they did do it, but then they can't be surprised when people say it was rushed and they found the execution lacking.

 

[Hoody999]

Mikey Sutton is saying he's heard from 2 sources that Affleck has signed on for 3 films and a supporting role film (probably a Trinity film).

Seems Affleck has got what he originally wanted, to go with some of his own ideas for some films. No doubt the treatment/script which Affleck originally had will need to be changed somewhat as they lifted some ideas for the Battinson film from that script if I remember correctly.

But apparantly Deathstroke is definitely involved. So I imagine we'll get that story of the psycho bringing down of Batman by Deathstroke. Maybe the Robin + Joker + Harley backstory as well, as referenced in ZSJL. That would all give a signoff/death in JL 2 + 3 a lot more gravitos imo.

Exciting times with new management !! No way Affleck would have come back with the other execs in charge !

 

[Dotanuki]

Superman's death in comics was huge because back then DC and Marvel didn't kill heroes and later on resurrect them back to life left and right lol DC fooled people that Superman was really over that this was it, no more Superman. If DC kills Superman today, no one cares about it because people know that deaths in super hero comics are just a cheap stunt.

 

[Mondragon]

Superman's death in comics was huge because back then DC and Marvel didn't kill heroes and later on resurrect them back to life left and right lol

Not true
Bucky (Marvel
Barry Allen Flash (DC
Both killed, and both significantly remained dead at the time.

DC fooled people that Superman was really over that this was it, no more Superman.

Not true
There is no one that wasn't under 5-10 years old )maybe you?) who was fooled by this, or believed that was it for Superman.

today, ...people know that deaths in super hero comics are just a cheap stunt.

Not true, people knew it back then too.
Although a well executed story (and spin-off books) , people knew it was just a stunt back then as well.
The market at the time was geared towards speculators (who didn't actually read or care about comics or characters ) but who just bought multiples of any stunt books, deaths, gimmicks, shocking direction changes, any "new" #1s, by the millions.
And the market catered to them - Read about the comics speculator boom and crash.
Actual on-going readers always recognized it for the stunt it was.

 

[Dotanuki]

...

Not true:
Bucky (Marvel
Barry Allen Flash (DC
Both killed, and both significantly remained dead at the time.

Not true
There is no one that wasn't under 5 years old )maybe you?) who was fooled by this, or believed that was it for Superman.

Yeah, Death of Bucky, Flash and Robin were what fooled people, people thought Superman was dead for good. Back then death in comics was rear and there was almost no resurrection. I was 10 or something back when DC killed Superman and didn't start to read comics, so i thought DC really killed Superman, DC even stopped publishing Superman for 3 months or something back then to fool people. I mean what dead means to a normal person, you are gone for good that this is it.

 

[JMT1979]

The simple answer here is you don't. You don't cram 10 films worth of content into 5 films. You don't stick the death of Superman onto the end of his second film or his return into the first JL team up.

Obviously you can do it because they did do it, but then they can't be surprised when people say it was rushed and they found the execution lacking.

To add to this debate, even though Gandalf died in the first book/movie, he had already been in The Hobbit, he was a revered figure because he had been alive for thousands of years, and they established the long-standing relationship between Gandalf and Frodo (and the other Hobbits to a lesser extent) early on, so when he dies, it's the death of a legendary hero.

When Superman dies, it's shortly after MoS and he hasn't done much, and his reputation was mixed due to the controversies surrounding him. Obviously he dies a hero after saving the world from two huge threats, but he hadn't yet cemented himself in the world as a grey hero who had saved the world from countless threats. If it was me, I'd have made him die defeating Darkseid, or I would have made Steppenwold more powerful and on par with Superman and have him die beating Steppenwolf, then have him resurrected to beat Darkseid at the end. I'd also make it obvious that Superman had been around for years and was unambiguously a univerwally admired hero worldwide.

As much as I love MoS and like BvS UE, the IMDb scores have all three of the LOTR films in the top 14 films of all time, while neither MoS nor BvS are anywhere near it.

 

[Alatar]

I have to side with ironwez on this one. Superman's death is a huge thing in the comics and it was earned with decades of build up. Here it was sadly very emotionless and rushed after one movie. It wasn't earned and I did not feel anything. And yes Superman is different than Gandalf. Especially considering his comic history.

It was a very bad move with a terribly rushed last act with a horribly wasted Doomsday and story arc. Seriously why waste and iconic character and moment like this? Superman's death should be a whole movie and it should have a huge impact. Watch the Death of Superman animated (2018) movie. That is how you do things IMO.

I would recommend reading this in order to try to better understand the significance of Superman’s death in Snyder’s planned five film saga:

Zack Snyder's DCEU Is a Nine-Hour Joyride Through Decades of Comic Book History

 

[ArtDamage]

If the Sequel Trilogy taught us anything, its that having a plan will always beat random nonsense made up along the way.

Even if the plan is horrifying!

 

[Alatar]

Really interesting analysis of Black Adam’s box office for opening weekend, and projection of what it needs to make to succeed:



Estimated opening weekend of $140M worldwide is not auspicious based on what the movie cost. It had a $200M production budget and the standard budget for marketing is $100M. That’s a rough cost of $300M. Movie theaters take roughly half of the box office. For every $100M of ticket sales the studio is getting $50M. So it needs to make back about 6x what it cost here, since this was an expensive movie to begin with.

If I understand all this correctly (?), the movie should at least break even with ticket sales so that it can make profit from all the other revenue streams such as toys, merch, disks, digital copies, VOD, cable TV aftermarket, and so on.

So yes, the movie will make more than just ticket sales. But it needs to break even with the theater box office to be truly profitable.

The guy in this video notes the a 6X multiplier is insanely high. That’s like Top Gun: Maverick which is one of the most popular movies ever. It had phenomenal word of mouth. I don’t think BA has a prayer of making anything like that.

 

[LIBBY1957DOG]

reading that there were 8 or 10 cut sequences from the film to shorten it for more viewings per day and a more kid friendly rating

wonder if they will release a r rated version

ReleaseTheUnCutJohnson lol

 

[abake]

To add to this debate, even though Gandalf died in the first book/movie, he had already been in The Hobbit, he was a revered figure because he had been alive for thousands of years, and they established the long-standing relationship between Gandalf and Frodo (and the other Hobbits to a lesser extent) early on, so when he dies, it's the death of a legendary hero.

When Superman dies, it's shortly after MoS and he hasn't done much, and his reputation was mixed due to the controversies surrounding him. Obviously he dies a hero after saving the world from two huge threats, but he hadn't yet cemented himself in the world as a grey hero who had saved the world from countless threats. If it was me, I'd have made him die defeating Darkseid, or I would have made Steppenwold more powerful and on par with Superman and have him die beating Steppenwolf, then have him resurrected to beat Darkseid at the end. I'd also make it obvious that Superman had been around for years and was unambiguously a univerwally admired hero worldwide.

As much as I love MoS and like BvS UE, the IMDb scores have all three of the LOTR films in the top 14 films of all time, while neither MoS nor BvS are anywhere near it.

I'm always a bit surprised by this sentiment expressed by so many people.
The entire movie revolves around the actions of Superman and Batman and the reactions of the general public (and politicians, and the media)... There is an entire montage of Superman's actions and people reacting to/analysing and discussing them.
And throughout it all, we are shown Superman's emotions, his fears, how he reacts to people mistrusting him and not understanding him. After he sacrificed his own race to save humanity (a humanity that distrusts him). And then he sacrifices himself again!
I mean, really?
I really don't need to see him smiling and waving to the crowds to understand that he embodies good and that his death is a tragedy.

 

[Alatar]

 

[JMT1979]

I'm always a bit surprised by this sentiment expressed by so many people.
The entire movie revolves around the actions of Superman and Batman and the reactions of the general public (and politicians, and the media)... There is an entire montage of Superman's actions and people reacting to/analysing and discussing them.
And throughout it all, we are shown Superman's emotions, his fears, how he reacts to people mistrusting him and not understanding him. After he sacrificed his own race to save humanity (a humanity that distrusts him). And then he sacrifices himself again!
I mean, really?
I really don't need to see him smiling and waving to the crowds to understand that he embodies good and that his death is a tragedy.

I don't disagree with you generally, as I stated I was a fan of both MoS and BvS, but despite the montage, he still has done that much relative to the character when he dies in the comic. No one is saying that he wasn't a hero and that his death wasn't tragic, especially from the DCEU world's perspective.

Superman died after 60 years and hundreds of issues in the comics, while in the DCEU he died in his second movie - to me, this is why it lacks emotional resonance with the audience, unlike when Iron Man died in Endgame, he had been around for 15 years in the MCU world, 11 in ours and in nine movies. A montage isn't comparable to nine movies worth of heroics and character arcs.

 

[Alatar]

 

[Alatar]

“Something just for Zack Snyder fans”

 

[Alatar]