Future of DC Films (DCEU)

[T8OO]

The reason I call you a Snyder Cultist is because you went to the ends of the earth to defend it with ridiculous comparisons and borderline likely unintentional lies all while not discussing these things in good faith. This has been the same experience I’ve had with any Snyder Cultist. For example:
- You make up things about their stock prices that are unfounded and untrue.
- You compared BvS (trash) to Empire Strikes Back (one of the greatest movies ever made) as if BvS is somehow similar in any way to ESB. I’m still confused by this.
- You claim WB lied about success then brush away the verified reports of the Snyder Bot Army artificially inflating demand. No good movie needs bots.


I’m not sure why you keep going after Marvel either for not having a plan (despite universal praise and clear evidence of a general outline at worse, with even more evidence of 4-5 year plans with an overarching goal) but talk about Snyder’s ”plan” that regardless of if it even being a plan or not was rushed and poorly thought out. Marvel did it right and showed the popularity of the genre and DC did it wrong.

It didn’t have to get going. Any average Batman movie before covid was going to clear a billion if done right. They rushed and tried to play catch up. Civil War is the perfect comparison because that was the movie they were competing against. That was the movie that did it right, that built their universe, made us care for those character, then have them fight.

As far as RT audience score goes, they changed it in 2019 I think, for verified users only, dropping the amount of scores. Which to me, just makes the base reviewing movies that much more biased and artificially raises scores across the board in most cases in my opinion.

Most of the things you accuse me of are something you are doing yourself, you seem to be oblivious to it.
- What did I make up about their stock prices other than presenting the figures and pointing out where the dates line up?
- Completely subjective.
- Brush away? I stated it was worked out as 13% bots which is low. Rolling Stone who made the article has significantly more bots in their followers than 13%.

I'm not going after Marvel, you claimed the MCU had a plan and DC didn't and you haven't backed that up. I just asked the question and pointed out the information I do know. I don't doubt they ended up with a plan I just want to know WHY you are so sure it was the way you stated it to be in both directions.

Again what do you have to show that a new Batman would clear 1 billion before COVID?

Yes the MCU built the universe at a slower pace and you may love Civil War, I think its good but it's not a patch on BvS.

 

[Alatar]

Black Adam reportedly actually cost $260M to make due to its 11th hour overhaul.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/m...not-moving-forward-dwayne-johnson-1235282822/
Applying the standard 2.5x multiplier it needed to make $650M to break even. It finished at $391M. It lost $259M.

 

[ironwez20]

Most of the things you accuse me of are something you are doing yourself, you seem to be oblivious to it.
- What did I make up about their stock prices other than presenting the figures and pointing out where the dates line up?
- Completely subjective.
- Brush away? I stated it was worked out as 13% bots which is low. Rolling Stone who made the article has significantly more bots in their followers than 13%.

I'm not going after Marvel, you claimed the MCU had a plan and DC didn't and you haven't backed that up. I just asked the question and pointed out the information I do know. I don't doubt they ended up with a plan I just want to know WHY you are so sure it was the way you stated it to be in both directions.

Again what do you have to show that a new Batman would clear 1 billion before COVID?

Yes the MCU built the universe at a slower pace and you may love Civil War, I think its good but it's not a patch on BvS.

You think bvs is better than civil war? Why is that?

 

[Alatar]

Just a quick note about the Discovery (not WB) stock price of $77 the weekend of release of ZSJL. Some attribute that gigantic spike to reports about Discovery’s impending acquisition of WB. But imo it is not a coincidence that it spiked like that when ZSJL released. AND it plummeted when Ann Sarnoff published her open letter announcing that there would be no further development of the Zack Snyder five film saga. That is not coincidence in my view.

 

[MyenShi]

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but it's been disappointing to see some of the more... let's say passionate Snyder fans - especially on social media - attacking the DCU before it even happens.

DC has been around a heck of a long longer than Snyder's take on it. Many interpretations of the universe and its characters have come and gone through comics, film, television, cartoons, video games, etc. Those transitions felt a bit more easier, relatively speaking.

There are some things that Snyder did that were interesting. I was personally not a fan of his approach or characterizations. That's me. If someone loves it, that's fine. That's them. Everyone is different. And that's okay.

I understand disappointment in someone's personal favorite versions of these characters and universe. But it's somehow warped into a sort of vicious all or nothing mentality for some; ie. Snyderverse or nothing.

I personally feel there are reason to be cautiously optimistic like a focus on good storytelling and a fully shared universe. It was said Justice League Unlimited would be a major inspiration for the DCU and that's amazing. DCAU is still the gold standard for me and a lot of folks out there.

 

[jye4ever]

So Zachary Levi is also out now?

Damn Shazam 2 isn’t even out yet sheesh lol

 

[loki2371]

Well, Gunn can't backtrack now. It's either a complete reboot, therefore recasting EVERYONE, or it's not. He can't/shouldn't pick and choose based on popularity, or the actors race or sexuality.

Keeping anyone at this point is gonna cause bad blood with fans. Especially after canning Cavil as Supes saying he wants a young Superman, while at the same time WB having Pattinson as a young Batman in that OTHER DC universe. Pattinson is 36, Cavil is 39. Cavil could easily pass for a Clark Kent in his mid to late 20's.

Gonna be an interesting 2023 as Gunn & WB slowly announces his "10 year plan".

 

[Khev]

I see that Ray Fisher wasted no time in setting his sites on a new target.

 

[spindrift]

The current DC movies weren't working so fair enough, let's restart it and see what happens. Snyder had his limited run, let's move on, what gunn does could be amazing, I'm just sad I have to wait so long to see if it's going to work

There was no salvaging the mess they got themselves into, aquaman and flash seem uncertain and it's clear they didn't know what to do with the multitude of great comic characters they had at their disposal. Hopefully gunn will have a long game plan and will learn from the mistakes made by his predecessors. Hopefully we'll get an actual batman with actual batcave and batmobile. We can mourn the death of what could have been, but at the end of the day we're stuck with gunn now. It can't be worse that what we've already seen

Great points! I love what Snyder has done but they weren't being accepted as widely as WB wanted (in critical response and $$$) so let Gunn amaze us. It's now or never for DC.

 

[ironwez20]

I see that Ray Fisher wasted no time in setting his sites on a new target.

Lol what did he say. He’s such a sore loser. Get over it. Yiu didn’t get your cyborg movie so you want the whole world cry with you

 

[Khev]

Lol what did he say. He’s such a sore loser. Get over it. Yiu didn’t get your cyborg movie so you want the whole world cry with you

“The way @JamesGunn uses fake grace on Twitter is really funny. Him going to bat for Joss Whedon, pseudo-apologizing for it, and then deleting it immediately before taking his new DC job is not. Refusing to apologize for toxic behavior seems to be a job requirement for WB/DC.” --Ray Fisher

“ALL my tweets automatically delete every few months, Ray, it has nothing to do with my tweets to you.” --James Gunn

 

[snoop101]

I know everyone has a past, we’ve all done things we regret, but James Gunn has said some pretty f’ed up things before. Joking or not, he’s got some serious problems lol. “Joking” about things like child **** and **** on Twitter seems like a bad move.

 

[BeefEaster]

I do agree that some were in bad taste but most of those tweets were from when he was writing for Troma and getting paid to be edgy.

 

[Garlador]

I do agree that some were in bad taste but most of those tweets were from when he was writing for Troma and getting paid to be edgy.

Yeah, I consider the source. Troma was a helluva thing.

 

[All Might]

Most of the things you accuse me of are something you are doing yourself, you seem to be oblivious to it.
- What did I make up about their stock prices other than presenting the figures and pointing out where the dates line up?
- Completely subjective.
- Brush away? I stated it was worked out as 13% bots which is low. Rolling Stone who made the article has significantly more bots in their followers than 13%.

I'm not going after Marvel, you claimed the MCU had a plan and DC didn't and you haven't backed that up. I just asked the question and pointed out the information I do know. I don't doubt they ended up with a plan I just want to know WHY you are so sure it was the way you stated it to be in both directions.

Again what do you have to show that a new Batman would clear 1 billion before COVID?

Yes the MCU built the universe at a slower pace and you may love Civil War, I think its good but it's not a patch on BvS.

I don’t think I misrepresented anything that I’ve said or made any odd comparisons.

You were being disingenuous with that stock chart. The drop wasn’t from Gunn and you tried to present it as if it were when a quick google search would have told you what the real reason was.

I’m not sure what comparison could be seen with BvS and Empire Strikes Back. The way you presented that comparison came off as if you were absolving criticism of BvS because ESB was divisive (was it really?) in the past. Then with your comments about BvS UE it made it seem as if BvS would be like ESB in both initial reception and future. Perhaps I looked too far into, but it was an odd comparison to begin with.

As far as the Snyder Bot Army, you stated WB manipulated reviews while completely ignoring what Snyder fans did themselves, the argument just comes off as weak if you can’t acknowledge shenanigans on both sides.

You are free to check out Marvel’s 2014 October presentation, I believe it is on YouTube where they lay out Phase 3 and their plans for the next 5 years. The fact that this was presented in October 2014 tells me they had these plans at least a few months in advance, if not longer. The MCU having a clear path forward with an overarching endgame (literally) isn’t some grand mystery, a few quick google searches will tell you this. The MCU had a plan, a great plan, and that is why it was successful. I don’t understand why you refuse to accept this.

I say that billion remark about Batman because both The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises cleared a billion. BvS would have easily cleared it if it were good and/or if they had any sort of build up so we come to care about these characters, like Civil War did with Steve and Tony.

I think Civil War is the far superior movie in nearly every aspect (actually just watched it tonight in my Marvel re-watch ironically enough). Box office, audience scores, critics, pop culture impact, merchandise sales will all tell you that. It’s cool that you like BvS, but the general view of Civil War, is that it is the better movie over BvS.

Black Adam reportedly actually cost $260M to make due to its 11th hour overhaul.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/m...not-moving-forward-dwayne-johnson-1235282822/
Applying the standard 2.5x multiplier it needed to make $650M to break even. It finished at $391M. It lost $259M.

Yikes. Aquaman 2 isn’t going to look good either then. They already had a ton of reshoots and are over budget as is. DCEU was just cancelled. All the Heard stuff and if she happens to even be in the film will certainly turn some off from seeing it as well. I can see a box office disaster happening again for DC.

Just a quick note about the Discovery (not WB) stock price of $77 the weekend of release of ZSJL. Some attribute that gigantic spike to reports about Discovery’s impending acquisition of WB. But imo it is not a coincidence that it spiked like that when ZSJL released. AND it plummeted when Ann Sarnoff published her open letter announcing that there would be no further development of the Zack Snyder five film saga. That is not coincidence in my view.

Thanks for the clarification, didn’t realize the merger was announced around the same time ZSJL was releasing, makes sense as to why it spiked around that time.

 

[generalszabo]

I know everyone has a past, we’ve all done things we regret, but James Gunn has said some pretty f’ed up things before. Joking or not, he’s got some serious problems lol. “Joking” about things like child **** and **** on Twitter seems like a bad move.

Not saying you're wrong but Disney forgave him and reinstated his GOTG3 director role, so if they can move on, maybe we all can!

 

[T8OO]

You think bvs is better than civil war? Why is that?

Although the story is somewhat similar I think BvS has a lot more weight. There is very little spoon-feeding by comparison. It has cleverly repeating subtle themes and every time I watch it I find something new. It looks far superior, has a much better score, and takes itself completely seriously.

 

[T8OO]

I don’t think I misrepresented anything that I’ve said or made any odd comparisons.

You were being disingenuous with that stock chart. The drop wasn’t from Gunn and you tried to present it as if it were when a quick google search would have told you what the real reason was.

I’m not sure what comparison could be seen with BvS and Empire Strikes Back. The way you presented that comparison came off as if you were absolving criticism of BvS because ESB was divisive (was it really?) in the past. Then with your comments about BvS UE it made it seem as if BvS would be like ESB in both initial reception and future. Perhaps I looked too far into, but it was an odd comparison to begin with.

As far as the Snyder Bot Army, you stated WB manipulated reviews while completely ignoring what Snyder fans did themselves, the argument just comes off as weak if you can’t acknowledge shenanigans on both sides.

You are free to check out Marvel’s 2014 October presentation, I believe it is on YouTube where they lay out Phase 3 and their plans for the next 5 years. The fact that this was presented in October 2014 tells me they had these plans at least a few months in advance, if not longer. The MCU having a clear path forward with an overarching endgame (literally) isn’t some grand mystery, a few quick google searches will tell you this. The MCU had a plan, a great plan, and that is why it was successful. I don’t understand why you refuse to accept this.

I say that billion remark about Batman because both The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises cleared a billion. BvS would have easily cleared it if it were good and/or if they had any sort of build up so we come to care about these characters, like Civil War did with Steve and Tony.

I think Civil War is the far superior movie in nearly every aspect (actually just watched it tonight in my Marvel re-watch ironically enough). Box office, audience scores, critics, pop culture impact, merchandise sales will all tell you that. It’s cool that you like BvS, but the general view of Civil War, is that it is the better movie over BvS.


Yikes. Aquaman 2 isn’t going to look good either then. They already had a ton of reshoots and are over budget as is. DCEU was just cancelled. All the Heard stuff and if she happens to even be in the film will certainly turn some off from seeing it as well. I can see a box office disaster happening again for DC.


Thanks for the clarification, didn’t realize the merger was announced around the same time ZSJL was releasing, makes sense as to why it spiked around that time.

The biggest drop in the last 9 years, from the previous lowest low of 9.84, started the day after Cavill was let go by Gunn. It has continued until its lowest point. I'm saying they could be linked. Can you show they are not?

My point with The Empire Strikes Back was at the time people just waited for the next movie. In 2016 some of the internet went crazy and WB reacted to it. There was no internet in 1980 so the filmmaker just did their thing. They didn't panic if people didn't like the ending or that it didn't have the threads tied up. If BvS came out 10 years earlier they wouldn't have touched JL, the audience would have loved it and the 5 part story would have been done by now.

Rolling Stone, the trade that broke the news had 24% bots in their followers. My point is that yes, there were bots but there are bots everywhere. I'm not justifying bots I'm pointing out that in the grand scheme of things the amount was low considering how prolific bots are/were.

Sure Marvel had a plan in 2014, 6 years after it started. You made out like Marvel always had a plan and DC didn't.

Yes, The Dark Knight just cracked 1 billion after making less than 400 million with its first movie with a new Batman. I don't think replacing a version of the character that cracks a billion suddenly means there are billions all around.

All those things you just listed don't mean anything when I judge a movie.

The merger wasn't announced at the same time ZSJL was released. It was announced months before.

 

[All Might]

Although the story is somewhat similar I think BvS has a lot more weight. There is very little spoon-feeding by comparison. It has cleverly repeating subtle themes and every time I watch it I find something new. It looks far superior, has a much better score, and takes itself completely seriously.

Civil War takes itself completely seriously as well, more than most MCU movies.

Been a while since I watched BvS maybe I’ll watch it again and I can see if it is worse than Emo Battison. All I remember is MARTHA, do you bleed, Batman being an *****, DC ruining Lex Luthor, and me laughing when Superman died. Also, it looked like a really well made video game, so you can take that as a positive or negative.

The biggest drop in the last 9 years, from the previous lowest low of 9.84, started the day after Cavill was let go by Gunn. It has continued until its lowest point. I'm saying they could be linked. Can you show they are not?

My point with The Empire Strikes Back was at the time people just waited for the next movie. In 2016 some of the internet went crazy and WB reacted to it. There was no internet in 1980 so the filmmaker just did their thing. They didn't panic if people didn't like the ending or that it didn't have the threads tied up. If BvS came out 10 years earlier they wouldn't have touched JL, the audience would have loved it and the 5 part story would have been done by now.

Rolling Stone, the trade that broke the news had 24% bots in their followers. My point is that yes, there were bots but there are bots everywhere. I'm not justifying bots I'm pointing out that in the grand scheme of things the amount was low considering how prolific bots are/were.

Sure Marvel had a plan in 2014, 6 years after it started. You made out like Marvel always had a plan and DC didn't.

Yes, The Dark Knight just cracked 1 billion after making less than 400 million with its first movie with a new Batman. I don't think replacing a version of the character that cracks a billion suddenly means there are billions all around.

All those things you just listed don't mean anything when I judge a movie.

The merger wasn't announced at the same time ZSJL was released. It was announced months before.

I can’t show they aren’t linked, but I trust the multiple financial sites for the given reason.

You severely underestimate just how many didn’t like and didn’t care about BvS.

Here is an article discussing Justice League’s disastrous opening weekend. Notice this is only opening weekend. You can’t really blame all the changes made to JL when majority of the audience didn’t even know about the changes going into the movie. BvS effectively killed the DCEU.

Also, BVS had one of the worst dropoffs ever for a superhero film, here is the article.

I really don’t understand why you keep thinking ”internet nerds” killed the DCEU when in reality it was Snyder’s vision that wasn’t well received.

Marvel always had a good plan, DC always had a badly rushed plan.

 

[Prime Clone]

Although the story is somewhat similar I think BvS has a lot more weight. There is very little spoon-feeding by comparison. It has cleverly repeating subtle themes and every time I watch it I find something new. It looks far superior, has a much better score, and takes itself completely seriously.

I concur. CW is when the MCU peaked for me, and BvS is when I decided I preferred the DCU (or Snyderverse at least).