Future of DC Films (DCEU)

[Garlador]

Superman, the last movie made less than 400 million. The last really successful Superman movie was over 30 years ago.
Batman, sure he brings in the money generally but it was taking over from the super successful Nolan movies and going in another direction. A first-time Batman hasn't been super successful for 20 years. The 3rd Nolan movie made 33% less than the team-up of all the B-list Marvel heroes.
Wonder Woman is completely unknown in movies at this point. Sure she's great now but in 2016 she wasn't anything.

Add on top of that in 2016 GA was enamoured with Iron Man and the MCU. My kids weren't asking me to take them to see Superman and Batman, it was Tony Stark and Captain America.
The trinity may have been the gold standard in comics but movie wise they were second-tier by comparison.

Exactly why Marvel succeeded and WB failed. Marvel made people excited for characters like Ant-Man, Groot, and Doctor Strange. WB - with all their beloved DC history and legacies - failed to excite people with a Batman and Superman teamup, something GA had been asking for over decades, back when Reeve was still walking around. This was such a slam-dunk crossover mega-hit at the peak of comic movie zeitgeist, to the point you’d have to actively TRY and screw it up, and… it bellyflopped. The most demanded superhero match-up ever made less than a Doctor Strange and solo Joker movie. That blows my mind.

 

[Prime Clone]

Superman, the last movie made less than 400 million. The last really successful Superman movie was over 30 years ago.
Batman, sure he brings in the money generally but it was taking over from the super successful Nolan movies and going in another direction. A first-time Batman hasn't been super successful for 20 years. The 3rd Nolan movie made 33% less than the team-up of all the B-list Marvel heroes.

Box office is only an indicator of success when it suits the argument. SR earned more than BB but was considered a failure. BvS earned more than WW but was considered a failure.

 

[All Might]

What reasons are those?

You severely overestimate how many didn't hate or did like it.

I wasn't even that interested in the universe when JL came out and I knew about the changes. Many reviews came out before the movie did. If BvS was so damaging why did SS and WW do so well?

Yes, it did drop fast, it did have a huge opening weekend so it was bound to drop a lot. It had a 69% drop, Spider-Man: No Way Home had a 68% drop.

If there is no internet how do you know it's not liked? If you have a movie make nearly 900 million that's a success, ask the X-Men and Transformers franchise.

You keep moving the goalposts on the plans. DC didn't have one, now they did but it was rushed. Marvel had one but then you used an announcement in 2014 and now they did always have one but it was "good". Make up your mind.

The reason the stock dropped recently was issues with the merger.

I don’t think I did. The box office numbers speak for themselves. Snyder Cult has a good base, but it’s nowhere near what it should be with a universe consisting of Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, among dozens of other great characters.

Those movies did well because they weren’t made by Zach Snyder.

That is such a disingenuous argument about Spider-Man drop off, yet again from you. No Way Home had the second biggest opening weekend of all time. Of course the drop off is going to be big. No Way Home made A BILLION MORE than BvS as well.

You keep refusing to do basic research and accept basic facts. DC had no plan in my eyes. They rushed everything. That isn’t a plan. And if it was, it failed regardless.

I shouldn’t have to spoon feed you information, even when I have, you refuse to accept it. The MCU had a plan from the start, as I stated multiple replies ago.

The first four DCEU movies averaged 775 million and a 6.7 on IMDb
The first four MCU movies averaged 480 million and a 7.1 average on IMDb

What is it about this that shows the MAJORITY of people didn't like them and what the box office says?

Adjusted Lifetime Grosses

Iron Man - 406m
Hulk - 200m
Iron Man 2 - 363m
Thor - 205m

Man of Steel - 322m
BvS - 350m
Suicide Squad - 350m
Wonder Woman - 422m

Since you conveniently leave off the team up movies, I’ll add those as well.

Avengers - 703m

Justice League - 228m

And to be fair, let’s do the first 6, help DC out a little

Captain America - 203m

Aquaman - 340m

Of course this is also ignoring the fact that Marvel carved out a viable super hero genre.

Marvel Average - 346.67m

DC Average - 335.33m

If we actually compared Marvel vs DC head to head based on the release dates, Worldwide Box Office

2013

Iron Man 3 - 1.2B

Man of Steel - 668m

2016

Civil War - 1.1B

BvS - 873m

Suicide Squad - 746m

Doctor Strange - 677m

2017

Spider-Man Homecoming - 880m

GOTG2 - 863m

Thor Ragnarok - 853m

Wonder Woman - 821m

Justice League - 657m (lol)

Some facts, mostly opinions.

If only it was that simple. Was there no Spider-Man 4 because people didn't want it?

I’ve listed many facts.

A couple of things in here aren't accurate but generally on the money...unlike WB

I’m not sure why you agreeing with that user, who said it was rushed, but when I said it was rushed, you disagree.

Superman, the last movie made less than 400 million. The last really successful Superman movie was over 30 years ago.
Batman, sure he brings in the money generally but it was taking over from the super successful Nolan movies and going in another direction. A first-time Batman hasn't been super successful for 20 years. The 3rd Nolan movie made 33% less than the team-up of all the B-list Marvel heroes.
Wonder Woman is completely unknown in movies at this point. Sure she's great now but in 2016 she wasn't anything.

Add on top of that in 2016 GA was enamoured with Iron Man and the MCU. My kids weren't asking me to take them to see Superman and Batman, it was Tony Stark and Captain America.
The trinity may have been the gold standard in comics but movie wise they were second-tier by comparison.

And that is why the DCEU is a failure and needed to be done. It lost the culture war. It failed to captivate the hearts and minds of kids and the general audience over Marvel. And yet you arguing why the Snyderverse was a success and your own kids told you how much it failed lol

No it's not, the fans loved the universe and wanted more. It made good money. It didn't happen.

Snyder Cult loved the universe and wanted more. Majority did not. Majority does not like Snyder.

Exactly why Marvel succeeded and WB failed. Marvel made people excited for characters like Ant-Man, Groot, and Doctor Strange. WB - with all their beloved DC history and legacies - failed to excite people with a Batman and Superman teamup, something GA had been asking for over decades, back when Reeve was still walking around. This was such a slam-dunk crossover mega-hit at the peak of comic movie zeitgeist, to the point you’d have to actively TRY and screw it up, and… it bellyflopped. The most demanded superhero match-up ever made less than a Doctor Strange and solo Joker movie. That blows my mind.

Good point. Marvel is competing with a bunch of B/C/D listers who they turned into A listers where as DC comes out swinging with A list studs of Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Joker of which they turned into B/C/D listers. Total flip.

DC had the ‘27 Yankees and Marvel was trying to win with the 2008 Yankees and did.

 

[JMT1979]

Honestly guys, I admire your passion, but the whole Snyderverse was the best vs Snyderverse was crap debate is getting annoying after pages of it.

The DCEU and Snyderverse weren't failures but weren't as popular as the MCU overall. DC don't like being second fiddle to Marvel, so they want to start again. This is the Executive Summary version.

Obviously, you're never going to agree so why don't you just agree to disagree, shake hands and let's actually talk about the future of the DCEU or whatever the next incarnation will be called.

 

[All Might]

The Snyderverse is a failure though because it now ceases to exist.

 

[JMT1979]

The Snyderverse is a failure though because it now ceases to exist.


View attachment 614235

I have to laugh because it is All Might!

 

[ironwez20]

No it's not, the fans loved the universe and wanted more. It made good money. It didn't happen.

What? In what universe? Lol.
Why do you think we are where we are now? Bvs was such a divisive film. Jl was trash. Snyder cut was a 7 at best. Come on now. Let’s not play like these movies were the best things ever and WB just pulled the plug because they were bored.

 

[All Might]

I have to laugh because it is All Might!

HAHAHAHA. Yes, laugh, BECAUSE I AM HERE.

 

[ironwez20]

Honestly guys, I admire your passion, but the whole Snyderverse was the best vs Snyderverse was crap debate is getting annoying after pages of it.

The DCEU and Snyderverse weren't failures but weren't as popular as the MCU overall. DC don't like being second fiddle to Marvel, so they want to start again. This is the Executive Summary version.

Obviously, you're never going to agree so why don't you just agree to disagree, shake hands and let's actually talk about the future of the DCEU or whatever the next incarnation will be called.

You’re right it is but some people tend to think everything was fine the way it was and nothing about the snyderverse was bad. Like come on if that were the case we wouldn’t be in this mess. I just find it baffling that some of Snyder bros think every DC fan loved it and if you didn’t you weren’t a true dc fan. Ridiculous.

 

[ironwez20]

Exactly why Marvel succeeded and WB failed. Marvel made people excited for characters like Ant-Man, Groot, and Doctor Strange. WB - with all their beloved DC history and legacies - failed to excite people with a Batman and Superman teamup, something GA had been asking for over decades, back when Reeve was still walking around. This was such a slam-dunk crossover mega-hit at the peak of comic movie zeitgeist, to the point you’d have to actively TRY and screw it up, and… it bellyflopped. The most demanded superhero match-up ever made less than a Doctor Strange and solo Joker movie. That blows my mind.

This ends the whole argument on why we are rebooting. Gotg, doctor strange , cap marvel and solo joker movie curb stomped an iconic team up movie of two of the most iconic characters since the 30s. We should have just kept going with his “perfect” plan? Yea no. He had a chance. He failed. Time to move on.

 

[All Might]

It will be interesting to see how much Gunn will utilize HBO Max in his plans.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a lot of TV shows for the introduction of these characters while down the road the general audience sees the established version in theaters. Make TV shows optional viewing. Certainly ways to write a good story by doing this if they make a great plan.

For example, a proper Batman show given a big enough budget could work. Introduce the character in the TV show, build him up, see Year One, see Robin, introduce smaller villains. Then in a movie we would see this established Batman taking on a bigger villain. Don’t have to reference the TV show, but have the TV show reference the movie.

 

[T8OO]

The reason the stock dropped recently was issues with the merger.

I don’t think I did. The box office numbers speak for themselves. Snyder Cult has a good base, but it’s nowhere near what it should be with a universe consisting of Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, among dozens of other great characters.

Those movies did well because they weren’t made by Zach Snyder.

He wrote and produced Wonder Woman.

That is such a disingenuous argument about Spider-Man drop off, yet again from you. No Way Home had the second biggest opening weekend of all time. Of course the drop off is going to be big. No Way Home made A BILLION MORE than BvS as well.

BvS had the biggest superhero opening weekend at the time.

You keep refusing to do basic research and accept basic facts. DC had no plan in my eyes. They rushed everything. That isn’t a plan. And if it was, it failed regardless.

Make up your mind.

I shouldn’t have to spoon feed you information, even when I have, you refuse to accept it. The MCU had a plan from the start, as I stated multiple replies ago.

Adjusted Lifetime Grosses

Iron Man - 406m
Hulk - 200m
Iron Man 2 - 363m
Thor - 205m

Man of Steel - 322m
BvS - 350m
Suicide Squad - 350m
Wonder Woman - 422m

Since you conveniently leave off the team up movies, I’ll add those as well.

Avengers - 703m

Justice League - 228m

And to be fair, let’s do the first 6, help DC out a little

Captain America - 203m

Aquaman - 340m

Of course this is also ignoring the fact that Marvel carved out a viable super hero genre.

Marvel Average - 346.67m

DC Average - 335.33m

If we actually compared Marvel vs DC head to head based on the release dates, Worldwide Box Office

2013

Iron Man 3 - 1.2B

Man of Steel - 668m

2016

Civil War - 1.1B

BvS - 873m

Suicide Squad - 746m

Doctor Strange - 677m

2017

Spider-Man Homecoming - 880m

GOTG2 - 863m

Thor Ragnarok - 853m

Wonder Woman - 821m

Justice League - 657m (lol)

Why would I include any movie after Snyder left or just look at domestic? That's the whole point, he left after four movies. Even I agree they have done poorly since, bar Aquaman.

I’ve listed many facts.

Yes, unfortunately, many contradictory opinions too.

I’m not sure why you agreeing with that user, who said it was rushed, but when I said it was rushed, you disagree.

That's not all they said plus I commented there are some inaccuracies in it.

And that is why the DCEU is a failure and needed to be done. It lost the culture war. It failed to captivate the hearts and minds of kids and the general audience over Marvel. And yet you arguing why the Snyderverse was a success and your own kids told you how much it failed lol

At no point did I say it was or should have been as successful as Marvel. I was talking about how much of a foothold the MCU had in 2016.

Snyder Cult loved the universe and wanted more. Majority did not. Majority does not like Snyder.

Subjective.

Good point. Marvel is competing with a bunch of B/C/D listers who they turned into A listers where as DC comes out swinging with A list studs of Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Joker of which they turned into B/C/D listers. Total flip.

Hence my comments on the power of the MCU at the time.

DC had the ‘27 Yankees and Marvel was trying to win with the 2008 Yankees and did.

Do the Yankees win based on how popular they get before the other team does?

 

[T8OO]

The Snyderverse is a failure though because it now ceases to exist.


View attachment 614235

I just checked. I still have it with Nolan's trilogy and other movies that aren't having new sequels made.

 

[T8OO]

What? In what universe? Lol.

This one. SM3 made 900 million in 2007!

Why do you think we are where we are now? Bvs was such a divisive film. Jl was trash. Snyder cut was a 7 at best. Come on now. Let’s not play like these movies were the best things ever and WB just pulled the plug because they were bored.

Because they wanted Marvel money and when they feared it wasn't happening fast enough they panicked. Their A-listers weren't at the top anymore. Marvels B listers were.

 

[T8OO]

Exactly why Marvel succeeded and WB failed. Marvel made people excited for characters like Ant-Man, Groot, and Doctor Strange. WB - with all their beloved DC history and legacies - failed to excite people with a Batman and Superman teamup, something GA had been asking for over decades, back when Reeve was still walking around. This was such a slam-dunk crossover mega-hit at the peak of comic movie zeitgeist, to the point you’d have to actively TRY and screw it up, and… it bellyflopped. The most demanded superhero match-up ever made less than a Doctor Strange and solo Joker movie. That blows my mind.

A head start does a lot in the movie business.

 

[All Might]

He wrote and produced Wonder Woman.



BvS had the biggest superhero opening weekend at the time.



Make up your mind.



Why would I include any movie after Snyder left or just look at domestic? That's the whole point, he left after four movies. Even I agree they have done poorly since, bar Aquaman.



Yes, unfortunately, many contradictory opinions too.



That's not all they said plus I commented there are some inaccuracies in it.



At no point did I say it was or should have been as successful as Marvel. I was talking about how much of a foothold the MCU had in 2016.



Subjective.



Hence my comments on the power of the MCU at the time.



Do the Yankees win based on how popular they get before the other team does?

Yeah, but thankfully he didn’t write the screenplay or direct it. Would have been another disaster.

BvS had the biggest superhero movie opening of all time? Do you just pull stuff out of thin air?

Here is the biggest opening weekends ever

It isn’t the biggest now, it wasn’t the biggest upon release, it wasn’t the biggest superhero opening at any point in time either. Again, 5 seconds of basic research, and you don’t bother, you just ignore all facts and continue pushing the Snyder Cult narrative.

After Snyder left? He was the reason some of them bombed so badly, his failed universe. You really still think his Justice League was going to put up numbers? Despite BvS being a disaster?

What are my contradictory opinions? About DCs “plan” that rattled around in Snyder’s mind and was rushed. That isn’t a plan, that is playing catch up and throwing darts on a wall to see what will work in a desperate attempt to copy Marvel.

Subjective? What more evidence do you want than box office numbers and the fact that it is now cancelled? Look, WB is pretty stupid, and they have been pretty stupid for a long time, but they aren’t dumb enough to cancel a universe that the majority liked. Remember your “internet nerds” yelling online remark? That’s what happening now about Snyder and DCEU getting cut.

No the Yankees win by playing good baseball. Like Marvel won for having a good plan and good movies.

I just checked. I still have it with Nolan's trilogy and other movies that aren't having new sequels made.

I just checked 2023 films. No DCEU Snyderverse movie. Looks to be a lot of MCU projects still going. I checked 2024. 2025. 2026. All the same.

 

[T8OO]

Yeah, but thankfully he didn’t write the screenplay or direct it. Would have been another disaster.

BvS had the biggest superhero movie opening of all time? Do you just pull stuff out of thin air?

Here is the biggest opening weekends ever

It isn’t the biggest now, it wasn’t the biggest upon release, it wasn’t the biggest superhero opening at any point in time either. Again, 5 seconds of basic research, and you don’t bother, you just ignore all facts and continue pushing the Snyder Cult narrative.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhu...superhero-opening-in-history/?sh=40ff11a47215

After Snyder left? He was the reason some of them bombed so badly, his failed universe. You really still think his Justice League was going to put up numbers? Despite BvS being a disaster?

No, they made money. High box office too. Yes, like SS and Wonder Woman. Even that absolute mess they in 2017 released did nearly 700 million. Are you telling me that a team-up movie that has 8.0 on IMDb and 94% on RT, sat between Wonder Woman and Joker/Aquaman wouldn't have been successful?

What are my contradictory opinions? About DCs “plan” that rattled around in Snyder’s mind and was rushed. That isn’t a plan, that is playing catch up and throwing darts on a wall to see what will work in a desperate attempt to copy Marvel.

DC have no plan. DC had a plan but it was rushed. DC have no plan. DC had a plan but it was rushed. Rinse and Repeat.

Subjective? What more evidence do you want than box office numbers and the fact that it is now cancelled?

750 million on average per movie is great for a franchise that is in second place over the top dog that has been there for nearly a decade. Iron Man 3 made significantly more money than Nolan's 3rd movie, a sequel to The Dark Knight, does that means Nolan's universe is bad?

Look, WB is pretty stupid, and they have been pretty stupid for a long time, but they aren’t dumb enough to cancel a universe that the majority liked.

They are.

Remember your “internet nerds” yelling online remark? That’s what happening now about Snyder and DCEU getting cut.

I do remember.

No the Yankees win by playing good baseball. Like Marvel won for having a good plan and good movies.

So the 2008 Yankees play good baseball? Again, awful example.

I just checked 2023 films. No DCEU Snyderverse movie. Looks to be a lot of MCU projects still going. I checked 2024. 2025. 2026. All the same.

You said it didn't exist.

 

[All Might]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhu...superhero-opening-in-history/?sh=40ff11a47215


No, they made money. High box office too. Yes, like SS and Wonder Woman. Even that absolute mess they in 2017 released did nearly 700 million. Are you telling me that a team-up movie that has 8.0 on IMDb and 94% on RT, sat between Wonder Woman and Joker/Aquaman wouldn't have been successful?



DC have no plan. DC had a plan but it was rushed. DC have no plan. DC had a plan but it was rushed. Rinse and Repeat.



750 million on average per movie is great for a franchise that is in second place over the top dog that has been there for nearly a decade. Iron Man 3 made significantly more money than Nolan's 3rd movie, a sequel to The Dark Knight, does that means Nolan's universe is bad?



They are.



I do remember.



So the 2008 Yankees play good baseball? Again, awful example.



You said it didn't exist.

Look at the China opening weekend numbers for Avengers and AoU. They aren’t included but are for BvS. Take away the China audience and multiple movies jump BvS. Add in the delayed China audience and they jump BvS.

We already had this discussion about ZSJL. Those ratings and reviews are from those who had a vested interest. The general audience moved on and didn’t care. It put up Mortal Kombat numbers on HBO Max.


DC didn’t have a plan in my eyes. Their plan was about as “planned” as the Star Wars ST. Snyder’s ”plan” is a joke.

The problem is potential. 750m is awful considering the potential of DC. The potential is something better than the MCU.

My bad, meant 2009 Yankees. One year off. Baseball knowledge is rusty.

Oh now we gotta play the technicality game lol

 

[T8OO]

Look at the China opening weekend numbers for Avengers and AoU. They aren’t included but are for BvS. Take away the China audience and multiple movies jump BvS. Add in the delayed China audience and they jump BvS.

We already had this discussion about ZSJL. Those ratings and reviews are from those who had a vested interest. The general audience moved on and didn’t care. It put up Mortal Kombat numbers on HBO Max.


DC didn’t have a plan in my eyes. Their plan was about as “planned” as the Star Wars ST. Snyder’s ”plan” is a joke.

The problem is potential. 750m is awful considering the potential of DC. The potential is something better than the MCU.

My bad, meant 2009 Yankees. One year off. Baseball knowledge is rusty.

Oh now we gotta play the technicality game lol

It's 7th in the list you sent me.

Subjective.

Again, flip-flopping on the definition of a plan.

Why? Do you think where Marvel was in 2008 is anywhere the same as it is now?

I know next to nothing about baseball except that popularity has little relevance in its winning of games.

Nope, the reality game.

 

[All Might]

It's 7th in the list you sent me.

Subjective.

Again, flip-flopping on the definition of a plan.

Why? Do you think where Marvel was in 2008 is anywhere the same as it is now?

I know next to nothing about baseball except that popularity has little relevance in its winning of games.

Nope, the reality game.

Yup. And it failed disastrously.

Not really subjective, just a fact. “Hey, remember that ****** Justice League movie? Wanna watch a 4 hour cut of it 5 years later!?” Oh yeah, I’m sure loads of the general audience watched it!

I guess I needed to put plan in quotations to signify I was mocking this “plan” that they had all along. The “plan” you are talking about doesn’t exist. A plan is not a plan when the “plan” was to rush everything out and change things. Now if you want to tell me the plan was to ignore any plan and rush the plans, which the real plan all along was in reality no concrete plan, but plans to rush, then they had a plan. Am I being sarcastic enough now for you to understand my thoughts on the “plan” of plans of DC planning the “planned” ”plan” for the DCEU plan?

The 27 Yankees is another way to say great lineup. 09 Yankees while good in their own right, weren’t the 27 Yankees.