General NBA Discussion

[Darkseed]

When people stop caring......say someone is equal or above jordan squawkers come out give them the attention they seek.

majority of nba fans don’t remember pre- jordan (Bird, Magic) or earlier and they need a barometer of “greatness” so its Jordan. It’s all relative and it’ll change over time

 

[Grimlock]

When people stop caring......say someone is equal or above jordan squawkers come out give them the attention they seek.

majority of nba fans don’t remember pre- jordan (Bird, Magic) or earlier and they need a barometer of “greatness” so its Jordan. It’s all relative and it’ll change over time

Well it’s hard to go back much more than the Bird/Magic era as it was a time when the NBA Finals was so unpopular that it was taped delayed and there isn’t much video footage. I’d love to see more of the classic Celtic/Auerbach era or Wilt at his prime, but it just isn’t possible since the footage doesn’t exist. Magic and Bird are the only reason the NBA survived and started to take off...Jordan took it to the next level.

Jordan also had basically no mental flaws. There have been much better physically talented players since Jordan, but not his psyche. That’s Jordan’s edge- no metal flaws when it came to the game. He’s a 100 out of 100. Imagine if Westbrook, KD, or any other top notch talent had Jordan’s metal edge. [emoji15]

And this is coming from a guy who hated Jordan (but respected him).


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[The Clown Prince of Crime]

There have been much better physically talented players since Jordan

Such as? I'm not triggered or anything lol), just asking, because MJ in his prime was the best offensive and defensive player in the NBA, not to mention his overall athleticism and skills. I know there are taller and heavier players, but they have holes in their games, unlike MJ.

I mean Westbrook can't even shoot. KD can shoot from anywhere, but are his ball handling skills, speed and athleticism on MJ's level? Not in my opinion. He's a skinnier more athletic version of Larry Bird.

 

[Grimlock]

Such as? I'm not triggered or anything lol), just asking, because MJ in his prime was the best offensive and defensive player in the NBA, not to mention his overall athleticism and skills. I know there are taller and heavier players, but they have holes in their games, unlike MJ.

I mean Westbrook can't even shoot. KD can shoot from anywhere, but are his ball handling skills, speed and athleticism on MJ's level? Not in my opinion. He's a skinnier more athletic version of Larry Bird.

Vince Carter, KD, LeBron, Westbrook, etc. Jordan wasn’t a great shooter either. He adapted at the end of his career as his body broke down. My point is that there are probably 100s of NBA players who are quicker, faster, stronger and can jump higher than MJ did in his time. None have his mind. And the skills you mentioned all have mental components. If Harden had Jordan’s mind would he be a top tier defender? I think so. He might not be as good as Jordan, but he’d be very good.

Kobe was the closest to a Jordan clone, but he didn’t quite have Jordan’s toughness. Jordan never would have given up like Kobe did in the playoffs.


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[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Vince Carter, KD, LeBron, Westbrook, etc. Jordan wasn’t a great shooter either. He adapted at the end of his career as his body broke down. My point is that there are probably 100s of NBA players who are quicker, faster, stronger and can jump higher than MJ did in his time. None have his mind. And the skills you mentioned all have mental components. If Harden had Jordan’s mind would he be a top tier defender? I think so. He might not be as good as Jordan, but he’d be very good.

Kobe was the closest to a Jordan clone, but he didn’t quite have Jordan’s toughness. Jordan never would have given up like Kobe did in the playoffs.


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His jump shot was fine in the early 90's, he just relied on his athleticism instead, but he could still shoot. Better free throw shooter than any of the guys you mentioned, except KD. A 40 year old Jordan was schooling a prime Vince Carter in the early 2000's. That wasn't just a mental edge. Lebron in his 16th season still needs to bulldoze his way to the basket because his jump shot is unreliable and he's got no moves except those desperate 3 point shots he takes sometimes. Also, doesn't MJ still have the record for highest vertical in the NBA? Some have advantages, but lack other physical attributes, imo.

 

[Grimlock]

His jump shot was fine in the early 90's, he just relied on his athleticism instead, but he could still shoot. Better free throw shooter than any of the guys you mentioned, except KD. A 40 year old Jordan was schooling a prime Vince Carter in the early 2000's. That wasn't just a mental edge. Lebron in his 16th season still needs to bulldoze his way to the basket because his jump shot is unreliable and he's got no moves except those desperate 3 point shots he takes sometimes. Also, doesn't MJ still have the record for highest vertical in the NBA?

Free throw shooting is mental. Every aspect of basketball is mental. Vince Carter was very lacking compared to MJ mentally. I think Vince was his physical superior in every way. A guy like LeBron is clearly FAR more physically gifted than MJ. But once again, LeBron is weaker mentally than MJ. LeBron has grown a lot though.

I looked up the historical best vert in NBA history, and it’s supposedly Wilt. Honestly the entire list seems like BS to me, but who knows. Maybe it just needs a +/- 5” added to the figure. [emoji2369]



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[Darkseed]

Drops mic........

In other news Klay Thompson lost super ridiculous max contract for not making the all nba team.....i find that funny and rewarding. Now Curry or Greene blow a knee c'mon.......make the nba great again.

 

[Grimlock]

Drops mic........

In other news Klay Thompson lost super ridiculous max contract for not making the all nba team.....i find that funny and rewarding. Now Curry or Greene blow a knee c'mon.......make the nba great again.

It’s a great thing for the Warriors long-term that he didn’t make the All NBA team, it means they can re-sign him for less. And with KD’s injury, the odds of him re-signing with the Warriors goes up, especially if he doesn’t play in the finals. Everything may be lining up to disappoint you. [emoji2960]


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[Darkseed]

Not disappointed.....I have other interest, simply keep pulling away from NBA. Glad folks talking about not coming to LA for another super team w Lebron. I'm over this age of the league, it holds zero appeal.

 

[Grimlock]

Not disappointed.....I have other interest, simply keep pulling away from NBA. Glad folks talking about not coming to LA for another super team w Lebron. I'm over this age of the league, it holds zero appeal.

As a lifelong Warriors fan I find plenty of appeal, but I understand if you don’t care for it. [emoji2369]


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[Sweet Rabbit]

Leonard had a hell of a series. It's funny how he's now being compared to Jordan. They'll never stop those comparisons for some reason.

He’s not even remotely in the same universe as Jordan

 

[jstep13]

Vince Carter, KD, LeBron, Westbrook, etc. Jordan wasn’t a great shooter either. He adapted at the end of his career as his body broke down. My point is that there are probably 100s of NBA players who are quicker, faster, stronger and can jump higher than MJ did in his time. None have his mind. And the skills you mentioned all have mental components. If Harden had Jordan’s mind would he be a top tier defender? I think so. He might not be as good as Jordan, but he’d be very good.

Kobe was the closest to a Jordan clone, but he didn’t quite have Jordan’s toughness. Jordan never would have given up like Kobe did in the playoffs.


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Not sure why some people claim that. It simply isn't true. He wasn't a notable 3-point shooter (different game back then). But he was a prolific mid-range shooter.

 

[Grimlock]

He definitely had a lethal mid range jumper (especially later in his career). That said, Jordan was never a pure shooter, he was a scorer who could shoot. Similarly would you call Karl Malone a great shooter with his baseline shot?

MJ was one of the best scorers the league has ever seen, but I’d never call him a shooter.


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[Shatterer of Dreams]

Semantics really. Once he developed and consistently made that turn around fade away, he had a reliable mid-range jump shot. Sure he was never a "pure" shooter like Reggie but few are.

 

[Grimlock]

Semantics really. Once he developed and consistently made that turn around fade away, he had a reliable mid-range jump shot. Sure he was never a "pure" shooter like Reggie but few are.

I think it’s totally different. Craig Hodges vs MJ. Stockton vs Malone. Reggie vs Rik. Mullin vs Hardaway. Ray Allen vs Glenn Robinson. All of these guys could shoot the ball, but some are pure shoots, while others are scorers who shoot. I don’t think many people talk about what a great shooter Karl Malone was, but he was deadly from his spots, and knew how to draw fouls similar to Harden, but in a different way.

In today’s NBA there are TONS of 3 and D guys who are pure shooters now that the 3 point shot has become more important.


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[Shatterer of Dreams]

My point is simply that Jordan gets knocked for not having a jump shot, he did though, a very reliable one. I even pointed out that he was not a "pure" shooter. All that said this argument of pure shooting and scorers that can shoot is actually the definition of semantics, but being a basketball fan I understand the actual difference between the two.

 

[jstep13]

He definitely had a lethal mid range jumper (especially later in his career). That said, Jordan was never a pure shooter, he was a scorer who could shoot. Similarly would you call Karl Malone a great shooter with his baseline shot?

MJ was one of the best scorers the league has ever seen, but I’d never call him a shooter.


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You never said pure shooter. You said "wasn't a great shooter". That's simply not true.

 

[Grimlock]

I stand by my statement that MJ is an epic scorer, not a shooter. Craig Hodges was a shooter. Steve Kerr was a shooter. Etc.

I don’t think any nba expert would ever call Jordan a shooter. He could shoot from his spots (especially later in his career), but he was never classified as a shooter. He was one of the greatest scorers ever nonetheless.


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[BurningRage]

Wilt was the greatest scorer off the court.

 

[Grimlock]

Wilt was the greatest scorer off the court.

That’s what he seemed to think, but maybe he had some competition. The NBA was pretty wild back in the day. [emoji848][emoji12]


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