GG Blackhole Stormtrooper

[LOTRFan]

That was well said Michael, and I know a number of us genuinely respect your opinion.

However, why isn't anyone blaming the manufacturer in all of this? Not only because of GG's lackluster servers, or ordering process. But are they not the ones who generated the problem to begin with? Of course 1K of these are going to move like Richard Simmons on a slip-and-slide, so haven't they created this to begin with? The *dare I say* Grey Hulk is another example of this, limited to what?! Fifty, really, that doesn't invite the scalper/flipper/etc? If companies really wanted to, they could remove these people from the collecting world in one swoop. Make every item an open ES (or significantly higher), unlimited supply, and the demand dies down.

So why not do this? Because scalping is good for business! These companies need the hype, attention, etc, that is how they continue making these items. Mass hype equals more business, and a greater demand because of low ES.

Sure the collector bares some responsibility, but I don't think that the companies themselves should be able to walk away unscathed.

 

[Darth Loki]

You people take this $hit way to personal. Being a person who has had a family member murdered, you have no right to even use them in the same posting.

If you want to call offering board members a desired product below market value while trying to make some money to fund the 40 something pre-orders I have, that's fine. We don't rip any retailers here for selling hard to get items well above the original cost, we thank them for the oportunity to get a hard to find product. I've made many pleas for anyone with a Code 3 X-Wing that I'd do a trade and even pay for shipping both ways. When nothing came of that, I decided to sell it to help pay off some of the load that I have coming in the next 6 months. You wanna rip someone, go rip the ******* that has this with a BIN of $900 on eBay. I don't make 50K a year and live in a nice house with a ton of money at my disposure. I've made a lot of sacrifices to keep my collection growing. Hell I'd have to stop in a heartbeat if me and my girlfriend ever broke up becuase I couldn't afford both rent and SS. Since I don't whore my self around or sell drugs, making money on a collectibe is about the only way for me to get supplementle income.

 

[LOTRFan]

I've made many pleas for anyone with a Code 3 X-Wing that I'd do a trade and even pay for shipping both ways. When nothing came of that, I decided to sell it to help pay off some of the load that I have coming in the next 6 months. You wanna rip someone, go rip the ******* that has this with a BIN of $900 on eBay.

Hey man, no ill will; I didn't post anything negative about you. Can you PM me next time if there is a problem.

 

[Darth Loki]

Hey man, no ill will; I didn't post anything negative about you. Can you PM me next time if there is a problem.

That was in no way any reference to you. I meant the ******* that has the BHS for $900. I'm happy you were able to get your $900 for your X-Wing, as I said earlier, I don't really want the SE. I'm sorry if that came out wrong.

 

[Fritz]

If I go to eBay right now and BIN a BHTrooper for $600 with the sole intent of selling it a year down the road because I think it will be worth $1000, am I a scalper?

Notice how I used the Blackhole Stormtrooper in my question so as to keep on topic with this thread.

 

[Darth Loki]

If I go to eBay right now and BIN a BHTrooper for $600 with the sole intent of selling it a year down the road because I think it will be worth $1000, am I a scalper?

Notice how I used the Blackhole Stormtrooper in my question so as to keep on topic with this thread.

Nicely done. No apparently that falls into the category of a flipper according to the great Michael Crawford (I'm just busting your balls Mike, sarcasm doesn't show through print). But since I was supposed to know that this was going to get crazy and be worth a lot this quickly, even though I didn't, I'm a scalper.

So you're still safe to do that. Although you can have mine for less than that.

 

[LOTRFan]

That was in no way any reference to you. I meant the ******* that has the BHS for $900. I'm happy you were able to get your $900 for your X-Wing, as I said earlier, I don't really want the SE. I'm sorry if that came out wrong.

It's all good my friend, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[SolidLiquidFox]

I think is great that Mike and others have ways to connect with other collectors to the degree stated in Mike's post. I didn't know such a "help-out-a-collector" buddy system still existed in this world of ebay.com. It's cool to hear that such a thing is still possible in this day and age.

I think when all is said and done we all have different budgets and different ways in which we collect. Nobody here should judge anyone else in the way he/she collects. Flipping/scalping is part of the game unfortunately. Whatever the reasons are (pure profit or financing other items) it is something that at some point MOST collectors find themselves in a position to do at some point in their collecting careers. I know some people take the high moral ground ("Pure" Collectors...whatever that is nowadays) and all that. I am happy that some of you can afford to take that moral high ground. However, I understand not everyone can afford to take that road and I think understanding without judging is the best policy on this.

Should those who can't fully afford to collect just get out of the game and allow the "pure" collectors to enjoy the hobby so they can trade freely in a one-for-one system?

Between MR, SS, GG, WDCC, comics, anime, video games, DVDs and others items I got my hands full. I can understand where DL and others come from. I do find myself lately making some tough decisions and passing on items such as the much praised Grievous PF or Predator maquette. After passing on those and with some streamlining of my collection I'll be able to afford Boba Fett PF, MR Boba Fett Blaster SE, both Hulk dioramas and all the other late stuff coming this year that I really want.

This is an expensive year. Who said collecting was easy? It's a part time job!

 

[DarthRamuk]

Well said, SolidLiquidFox! I like the way you summed up all that has been said earlier without taking the "high moral ground" route! :chew

 

[Michael Crawford]

Nicely done. No apparently that falls into the category of a flipper according to the great Michael Crawford (I'm just busting your balls Mike, sarcasm doesn't show through print). But since I was supposed to know that this was going to get crazy and be worth a lot this quickly, even though I didn't, I'm a scalper.

So you're still safe to do that. Although you can have mine for less than that.

Actually, no. That's the trouble with debates when people keep changing definitions.

A scalper buys something when it is available at retail with the express purpose of turning right around and selling it. I believe that's what I stated in my post. I'm not sure how you can confuse something that straight forward definition with the idea of buying one now on ebay (which is not current retail) with the intent of selling it a year from now (which isn't immediate) - how do those two compare? The only time they compare is when you're trying to make excuses or loopholes to the concept of scalping.

The Golden Rule runs both ways - you can certainly scalp statues, busts and figures any chance you happen to get. But don't expect to get treated differently when you're the one looking for help.

As to whether or not scalping is right or wrong...if you can simply say "look, I'm not Mother Teresa, I need the cash, and yes, I'm scalping this stuff to make money" then you're clearly comfortable with it and doing what you think is right. If you have to make up a new name for it that's cute like 'flipping', or attempt to find loop holes ("well, how is that different than if I...") then you have an issue. There's some great wisdom out there that says if something FEELS wrong to YOU when you're doing it, then it probably is. If it doesn't, then you're cool. Scalping feels wrong to me, and that's why I don't support it or condone it.

And don't even get me started on GG's poor planning, awful e-commerce, and lack of collector support. I do think they tried to make it right after the fact, but that doesn't excuse their poor planning.

 

[LOTRFan]

And don't even get me started on GG's poor planning, awful e-commerce, and lack of collector support. I do think they tried to make it right after the fact, but that doesn't excuse their poor planning.

So you do agree that the companies themselves should bare some responsibility as well Michael? Not just GG, but all companies when they release something with such high demand and short supply?

 

[hairlesswookiee]

so what exactly are we talking about??? this got really off topic and i stopped reading about 10 pages ago....can you guys maybe take the debate to off topic and leave this to the actual bust???

 

[Gran3131]

I think from when a person starts his collection this decision to sell items or not is one of the first he or she is faced with. Some people go one way while others people go the other way. This is why I stated yesterday that these kind of topics should not be dicussed in to much detail because some kind of rift will always form even if it is between board members that have interacted for long time.

You know DL I can see your point. You have wanted the X-wing for a long time but no one has helped you out, and that is a shame. Maybe if someone had then you would not have even thought about selling the BHS. Hopefully, you still will get the x-wing and hopefully it is for a good price.

Again these type of situations only come about once in a great while. So one should get to worked up one way or another. There is a lot more important stuff in this world then talking about this mini bust.

 

[Michael Crawford]

So you do agree that the companies themselves should bare some responsibility as well Michael? Not just GG, but all companies when they release something with such high demand and short supply?

They do share in the responsibility for creating the situation, particularly in specific cases like BHS. It also hurts them, but they are often too stupid and unwilling to see it.

They believe that the hype helps them. There's no studies that prove this, no actual sales data that can prove it, but they think it. There are others of us who believe it hurts them far more than they realize, but since they are generally unwilling to see it, it's difficult to prove.

It hurts them because it limits the number of completist collectors they can attract. It hurts them because they'll eventually piss off most of their fanbase when the do it long enough. And eventually the bottom will drop out of that particular collectible, and the 'investors' will shy away from anything in the future.

In the toy world, it's been proven over and over with companies like Playmates, Palisades and even Mattel and Hasbro. And yet, they don't listen. I wrote an article awhile back on something similar with the Mattel Christmas Hal Jordan figure:

https://www.moviepoopshoot.com/toybox/165.html

Sideshow has always wisely avoided over hyping the limited nature of some of the exclusives. They've also wisely given collectors a chance to get every figure, making the exclusives something additional rather than as an only option. And that kind of marketing is why Sideshow is booming when other companies are getting by, or in some cases going under.

If GG managed their busts better, they'd have two or three times the number of regular buyers. Instead, they believe the hype is what got them where they are - not the product. That's too bad.

 

[SolidLiquidFox]

so what exactly are we talking about??? this got really off topic and i stopped reading about 10 pages ago....can you guys maybe take the debate to off topic and leave this to the actual bust???

I think we are trying to keep this thread alive with some mildly relevant discussion. This bust makes the Gray Hulk threads in here seem 10 times more interesting and 10 times less whinny than what we have seen on rebelscum about the BHS.

There is nothing to report other than nobody has received a shipping notice and that if you haven't been cancelled at this point you should be safe.

 

[Darth Loki]

"A scalper buys something when it is available at retail with the express purpose of turning right around and selling it. I believe that's what I stated in my post. I'm not sure how you can confuse something that straight forward definition with the idea of buying one now on ebay (which is not current retail) with the intent of selling it a year from now (which isn't immediate) - how do those two compare?"

What about buying something at retail and hoping it will gain future value in which case you'd then sell it? That is kinda in the middle of both. I haven't bought anything, besides this bust, with any intentions of ever selling it. But I will say that if for some reason some piece of my collection became as valuable as say a Balrog, I'd be in quite a tough spot as to keep it or sell it.

Does it make it any better if something unexpected came up, like having your wisdom teeth pulled, getting $1000 worth of work done on your car, or having your computer blow it's hard drive? What if all 3 happened in the same week and you saw a way to not have to cancel a couple really wanted statues? Does that make you a bad person?

 

[Fritz]

...Does that make you a bad person?

The only thing that makes you a bad person is not selling your BHT to me! :emperor

 

[Darth Loki]

The only thing that makes you a bad person is not selling your BHT to me! :emperor

It's not too late, did you check your PM's.

 

[Gran3131]

DL,

I hope you do not feel as if anybody thinks you are a bad person becasue that is not the case. A person has to do what is best for themselves, but should be open to some positive criticism which you were, and that is to be respected.

 

[daelith]

Actually, no. That's the trouble with debates when people keep changing definitions.

Or when people provide definitions that aren't very accurate and need to be clarified.

A scalper buys something when it is available at retail with the express purpose of turning right around and selling it. I believe that's what I stated in my post. I'm not sure how you can confuse something that straight forward definition with the idea of buying one now on ebay (which is not current retail) with the intent of selling it a year from now (which isn't immediate) - how do those two compare?

I bought a bunch of LOTR helms with the expressed purpose to turning around and selling it years from now, after they have appreciated to a level I'm comfortable with. Motivation is the same; buy low, sell high.

The only time they compare is when you're trying to make excuses or loopholes to the concept of scalping.

Strange sentence.

The Golden Rule runs both ways - you can certainly scalp statues, busts and figures any chance you happen to get. But don't expect to get treated differently when you're the one looking for help.

I agree.

As to whether or not scalping is right or wrong...if you can simply say "look, I'm not Mother Teresa, I need the cash, and yes, I'm scalping this stuff to make money" then you're clearly comfortable with it and doing what you think is right. If you have to make up a new name for it that's cute like 'flipping', or attempt to find loop holes ("well, how is that different than if I...") then you have an issue. There's some great wisdom out there that says if something FEELS wrong to YOU when you're doing it, then it probably is. If it doesn't, then you're cool. Scalping feels wrong to me, and that's why I don't support it or condone it.

It's always easier to philosophize when you've got the money to support your higher moral stance. Hypothetically, if someone here came down with cancer and had to resort to scalping to provide them with the $$$ for medicine, would you support or condone it then? ...or would you look at it a little bit differently, given the context?

And don't even get me started on GG's poor planning, awful e-commerce, and lack of collector support. I do think they tried to make it right after the fact, but that doesn't excuse their poor planning.

Welp, it certainly is better than what Sideshow did after the Doom fiasco where they just raised the ES and said "sorry."