Has the PT improved with time?

[kiwiatlarge]

I try to just stick to every group of material as being self contained, with an awareness that technically overall they are all connected. What I find most annoying is when people use stuff that was written after 2010 to rationalise in minute detail stuff that was written in the mid/late 70s. Why bother? Just accept that a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, a movie named Star Wars was made about a boy who went on a space adventure, where his mentor had a showdown with the baddest henchman in the galaxy.. the same man who was the man who killed the boy's father, and was the pupil of the mentor.. Then the boy went on to destroy the most dangerous weapon ever made.

 

[Prime Clone]

I try to just stick to every group of material as being self contained, with an awareness that technically overall they are all connected

Excellent point. I never expected the PT to feel too much like the OT because the Republic was spoken of in the OT as another, almost mythical time.

 

[xipotec]

Watching a “making of” TPM....

You can see the slow motion train wreck and the obvious errors they are making....


Seems like they do know some of it sucks, while they are making it.

Especially Jake Lloyd.....

The hard on Lucas has for Jar Jar is unsettling.

Overall however, Rick McCullum is the biggest tool in the staff. IMO hes the biggest issue.


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Neal136]

I answered with "I always liked it", but that doesn't mean that I think it has improved with age. If anything, it's gotten worse.
I know that a lot don't enjoy the ST, but the overall acting and dialogue is so much better than what the PT gave us. That alone makes the PT not age so well.

 

[a-dev]

I've always refused to believe the defense of the PT that the acting and dialogue was just as bad in the OT and I stand by that today. Sure, the OT wasn't going to win oscars in these categories but there was life in the performances and line delivery. As Sam Jackson said, personality goes a long way. Ironically he had none when he was in Star Wars.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Rick McCullum is the biggest tool in the staff. IMO hes the biggest issue.

The Michael Cohen of Lucasfilm.

The result is obvious when you compare the Kurtz era to the McCullum era.

 

[Khev]

The result is obvious when you compare the Kurtz era to the McCullum era.

It's because Kurtz had the balls to walk away when he decided that George was going too far off the deep end. Absolutely no one in the PT era was capable of saying "you've got to be kidding, Jake Lloyd is absolutely terrible, get a decent kid or I'm not going to be a part of this." So they just smiled and followed along with King George and every one of his stupid decisions.

 

[xipotec]

It's because Kurtz had the balls to walk away when he decided that George was going too far off the deep end. Absolutely no one in the PT era was capable of saying "you've got to be kidding, Jake Lloyd is absolutely terrible, get a decent kid or I'm not going to be a part of this." So they just smiled and followed along with King George and every one of his stupid decisions.

Thats the thing, you can almost see George begging for someone to tell him Jake is not working.....yet they continue on...

Its quite an amazing thing to watch.....

Hes bolstering and complimenting Portman, and then just says.....Jake had some good moments.

Its a horror show and should be shown to every film student as how not to make a film......

Even the behind the scenes acting is wooden as hell....and GL is more interesting in how much everything costs over the performance.


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[ShadowX81]

I do remember at the time when it came out how excited they were about the amount of CGI in the movie. Back then CGI was the brand new toy and everyone was eager to show it off at every opportunity, regardless of how much the technology was in its infancy and still didn't look great yet. Let alone the years it would take before directors figures out more subtle things like how to get actors to interact with imaginary characters convincingly.

Ironically Episode 1 stumbled across this trick (and then discarded it for the sequels) by actually having a man on set to play Jar Jar so the other actors could play off of him. While the character is still a train wreck, he is admittedly one of the best realized CGI characters, because he at least feels real.

Statements like "There isn't a single shot in this film that doesn't have CGI in it", "We didn't actually build any full sets for this film", "The world is entirely digital. Its up to nothing but these actors and a green screen to bring it to life" or "There wasn't a single practical Clone Trooper costume built" were stated as points of pride during the marketing of this movie. Today these come off as obvious red flags, especially considering the quality of CGI at the time.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Its up to nothing but these actors and a green screen to bring it to life"

That alone spells doom.

 

[xipotec]

And Lucas hated the suit Amahad used and complained it cost 100k.....

ILM told him they were faster at just making the CGI from the start.....

GL “so we just wasted 100k?”

ILM “ NO NO we used the light capture and the performance to make ot look real!”

GL : “<angry scowl>

Translation: GL hates actors and wants to replace them....no realizing they are what make Space Operas work.


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Khev]

"There wasn't a single practical Clone Trooper costume built"

That created such an immediate and insurmountable disconnect between the PT and OT for me that continues to this day. No movie that uses CG troopers will ever feel like a SW movie to me which is why I'll never be able relate to claims that AOTC and ROTS "feel like SW." They just don't and they never will.

Feel like SW video games maybe but never the live-action film Saga itself.

I would have been okay if just those panoramic Geonosis battlefield shots featured hundreds of CG clones but the talking clones in close up!? Unforgivable and even worse--so unnecessary.

 

[a-dev]

I do remember at the time when it came out how excited they were about the amount of CGI in the movie. Back then CGI was the brand new toy and everyone was eager to show it off at every opportunity, regardless of how much the technology was in its infancy and still didn't look great yet. Let alone the years it would take before directors figures out more subtle things like how to get actors to interact with imaginary characters convincingly.

Ironically Episode 1 stumbled across this trick (and then discarded it for the sequels) by actually having a man on set to play Jar Jar so the other actors could play off of him. While the character is still a train wreck, he is admittedly one of the best realized CGI characters, because he at least feels real.

Statements like "There isn't a single shot in this film that doesn't have CGI in it", "We didn't actually build any full sets for this film", "The world is entirely digital. Its up to nothing but these actors and a green screen to bring it to life" or "There wasn't a single practical Clone Trooper costume built" were stated as points of pride during the marketing of this movie. Today these come off as obvious red flags, especially considering the quality of CGI at the time.

Yep, I remember all that. Once I saw TPM I realized it was all a very dubious kind of boasting - and to think it would get worse, not better.

That alone spells doom.

For the small band of...

That created such an immediate and insurmountable disconnect between the PT and OT for me that continues to this day. No movie that uses CG troopers will ever feel like a SW movie to me which is why I'll never be able relate to claims that AOTC and ROTS "feel like SW." They just don't and they never will.

Feel like SW video games maybe but never the live-action film Saga itself.

I would have been okay if just those panoramic Geonosis battlefield shots featured hundreds of CG clones but the talking clones in close up!? Unforgivable and even worse--so unnecessary.

Exactly. The CGI clones were absurd from the start, especially if they weren't wearing a helmet. Even today they can't escape the floating head thing.

 

[Khev]

And that's why TPM just feels more like a part of the Saga than the latter two prequels. Sure it's kind of a two-hour "Holiday Special" with regard to quality and tone and all that but it nevertheless has a surprising amount of practical effects for a modern SW film. The Naboo fighters, droid fighters, and Trade Federation battleships were all practical models. Most of Naboo's interiors were real, and then of course the extensive Tunisia shoot (minus the digital pod race of course.)

So much was real and on set/location that it really allowed the pod racers, battle droids and gungans to feel like a part of a tangible universe instead of just being white noise in a feature length cartoon.

 

[Prime Clone]

Lucas bankrolled the prequels himself, so it's no surprise he was cost-conscious. He said at the time each one had to make enough money to fund the next.

The fact Lucas was paying for them out of his own pocket was probably a big reason no-one wanted to argue with him!

Also, Lucas has admitted to being a technical director, so I guess actors' performances weren't high among his priorities.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Lucas bankrolled the prequels himself, so it's no surprise he was cost-conscious. He said at the time each one had to make enough money to fund the next.

The fact Lucas was paying for them out of his own pocket was probably a big reason no-one wanted to argue with him!

He paid for Empire and Jedi too in much the same way.

 

[ShadowX81]

And that's why TPM just feels more like a part of the Saga than the latter two prequels. Sure it's kind of a two-hour "Holiday Special" with regard to quality and tone and all that but it nevertheless has a surprising amount of practical effects for a modern SW film. The Naboo fighters, droid fighters, and Trade Federation battleships were all practical models. Most of Naboo's interiors were real, and then of course the extensive Tunisia shoot (minus the digital pod race of course.)

So much was real and on set/location that it really allowed the pod racers, battle droids and gungans to feel like a part of a tangible universe instead of just being white noise in a feature length cartoon.

Exactly. And this also shows in the performances of the actors, who (other than Lloyd) are able to deliver a better performance than in the next two films where they had much less to interact with. Makes it much easier to get immersed in the world when things feel real and people act sincere.

Everyone looks at me crazy when I tell them that TPM is my favorite of the prequels and ROTS is just as much of a mess as AOTC. But this is the reason why.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Everyone looks at me crazy when I tell them that TPM is my favorite ...

Meesa tinks yousa big bom-bad.

 

[Khev]

Exactly. And this also shows in the performances of the actors, who (other than Lloyd) are able to deliver a better performance than in the next two films where they had much less to interact with. Makes it much easier to get immersed in the world when things feel real and people act sincere.

In AOTC George couldn't even let the genuine reactions to the other actors on set stand without digital tinkering. There's a segment on one of the old AOTC DVD's that show him editing the "fireplace" scene where he would cherry pick certain line readings from Hayden and then splice them into different takes where he preferred Portman's delivery. In his mind he was creating "super takes" (his term) and then leaving us with an entire sequence where two humans sharing the same couch aren't even truly interacting with the real time version of the other person. It was mind boggling how he could manufacture phoniness out of even the most intimate and human dramatic moments.

 

[DarkChocobi]

Lucas bankrolled the prequels himself, so it's no surprise he was cost-conscious. He said at the time each one had to make enough money to fund the next.

The fact Lucas was paying for them out of his own pocket was probably a big reason no-one wanted to argue with him!

Also, Lucas has admitted to being a technical director, so I guess actors' performances weren't high among his priorities.

and dont forget Clone Wars animated series that cost him millions per espisode.