HOBBIT CONFIRMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pixletwin]

Man, I hate finding threads late..... stoopit Christmas! Stoopit deadlines!!

A few thoughts....

I think it's jumping the gun to ASSUME that the second HOBBIT film will be all new material. I personally think what is going to happen is, THE HOBBIT will be told, as the book begins & ends, over the course of the two films. THE HOBBIT will be cut in twain, as they say, and things like the White Council and Gandalf B&E-ing into Dol Goldur will be expanded to fill out the films.

As for the White Council & Dol Goldur/Necromancer stuff not being essential, well, it is and it isn't.

Tolkein didn't write about them in THE HOBBIT, but there are bits of them in other books. Many things from the LOTR films were culled from the Appendices and other writings. Aragorn & Arwen's romance, for one.

As for what Tolkein did & didn't bother writing being the determining factor, please bear in mind that the Death of Boromir, arguably one of the most powerful moments in the films, was never in the books. Boromir dies, "offscreen" as it were, in between the FELLOWSHIP and TWO TOWERS books. So, there ARE precedents...

As for whether or not we really NEED the White Council and and Dol Goldur stuff, my tiny vote is "yes". Gandalf is a major character in THE HOBBIT. When Bilbo and the dwarves get to Mirkwood Forest, Gandalf (apparently) heartlessly abandons them, only to show up in a deus ex machina style at the Battle of Five Armies finale. In a children's book, it's OK to overlook this, but I think that in a major motion picture, audiences will sit and wonder "Why did Gandalf leave? Why isn't he staying with them?" I think that it's kind of vital to make sure that the audience knows WHY kind old Gandalf the Grey just lets the little guys go into the Worst Forest in Middle-Earth with nothing more than a "I have pressing business south! Cya! Wouldn't want to be ya!"

Finally, THE HOBBIT has always been a film that has going to be made. It's a fact. The LOTR films made TOO MUCH MONEY for THE HOBBIT to not ever see the big screen; too much money is to be made.

So, seeing as how THE HOBBIT is an inevitability, I think that Jackson's involvement is a sign for optimism. If THE HOBBIT was going ahead WITHOUT Peter, Fran, and the rest, I think we'd all have a lot more to be worried about.

C'mon! Come out of the Bitter Barn and play in the hay! We all get to go back to Middle-Earth soon!

Best post on the subject and one I agree with 100%.

 

[Atom Hues]

As for the titles of the two Hobbit films....

.... how about THE HOBBIT and THERE & BACK AGAIN?

Too esoteric? How about:

HOBBIT: THE MOTION PICTURE and HOBBIT II: THE WRATH OF SMAUG?

THE HOBBIT and THE DRAGON STRIKES BACK!

DUDE, WHERE'S MY HOARD? and GANDALF & BILBO GO TO WHITE COUNCIL!!

 

[Wetanut]

GREAT post Atom! Recapped everything I've thought (but much better expressed).

 

[p!tu]

As for the titles of the two Hobbit films....

.... how about THE HOBBIT and THERE & BACK AGAIN?

Too esoteric? How about:

HOBBIT: THE MOTION PICTURE and HOBBIT II: THE WRATH OF SMAUG?

THE HOBBIT and THE DRAGON STRIKES BACK!

DUDE, WHERE'S MY HOARD? and GANDALF & BILBO GO TO WHITE COUNCIL!!

I know what you Hobbits did las summer!

 

[FrodoEyes]

GREAT post Atom!

As for the titles of the films, my money is on the sequel to be called 'The White Council'.
Remember recently EA announced they would be releasing a game with that title? And then suddenly, just before the movie announcement, they say they're cancelling or delaying it? I'm wondering if they had some insider knowledge and decided that releasing a game with the same name as a future movie they might be doing a game of might be a bit confusing? So maybe they ARE delaying 'The White Council'.....by, say, 4 years?

 

[CAhobbit]

Tolkein didn't write about them in THE HOBBIT, but there are bits of them in other books. Many things from the LOTR films were culled from the Appendices and other writings. Aragorn & Arwen's romance, for one

What other writings? The only aspects of Tolkien's written works that can be seen on film can only come from "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" (this of course includes all the appendices from LOTR). Aside from just making things up (which is what happened in many instances in the films) there are no other writings that Tolkien wrote that can appear in film. I'm just curious what other writings you speak of here since the only material that can be touched are LOTR and The Hobbit.

 

[The Josh]

Best post on the subject and one I agree with 100%.

I agree!:chew

 

[Captain Faramir]

There are always the original titles Tolkien himself preferred for the three works--The Return of the Shadow, The Treason of Isengard, and The War of the Ring.

The Return of the Shadow works well, except it's pretty close to ROTK. At least it's more exciting than The White Council; much as I would love it, the public would find it a bit dull.

 

[Atom Hues]

What other writings? The only aspects of Tolkien's written works that can be seen on film can only come from "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" (this of course includes all the appendices from LOTR). Aside from just making things up (which is what happened in many instances in the films) there are no other writings that Tolkien wrote that can appear in film. I'm just curious what other writings you speak of here since the only material that can be touched are LOTR and The Hobbit.

Ok, I'm holding a copy of THE ANNOTATED HOBBIT, Revised & Expanded Edition, Houghton Mifflin, 2002. On Page 367 starts Appendix A. The Quest of Erebor.

According to the introduction, it is essentially Gandalf's explanation of how he arranged Bilbo's adventures as told in The Hobbit. It's a very cool story, it takes place in Minas Tirith after the coronation of Aragorn. The story is written in first person point-of-view by Frodo, and it details the happy quiet days the hobbits spent in Gondor before returning to the wacky fun of the "Scouring of the Shire" chapter of The Return of the King.

Frodo relates a conversation he has with Gandalf, along with Gimli and the other hobbits. Gandalf basically loosens up his infamous mysterious act and tells how he put all the various machinations into play that resulted in the destruction of Smaug and the return of dwarves to Lonely Mountain; he also explains why.

In this telling, he talks of the White Council, and his adventures in Dol Goldur, the fortress of the Necromancer of Mirkwood, aka Sauron, aka The Dark Lord of Mordor, aka Scion of Melkur, blahbahblah.

This Appendix was written by J.R.R. Tolkien sometime in late 1954 or 1955, scholars surmise. It was originally intended to be in Appendix A of The Lord of the Rings, but was removed before publication for considerations of space. A version of it was published in Tolkien's Unfinished Tales.

Sooooo..... it's canon, because it was written by Professor Tolkien and intended for publication. It appeared in neither The Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit, until this 2002 annotated edition was published.

If Jackson & Co. are going to expand The Hobbit into two films by including scenes from the White Council and Gandalf in Dol Goldur (as many of us guess), then this is the Appendix where Tolkien wrote of what happened. Not in TREMENDOUS detail, but then, Tolkien didn't write Boromir's actual death scene, nor did he ever say how Saruman actually imprisoned Gandalf in Orthanc. The filmmakers extrapolated, and usually with well-received results.

BTW, on a cool geek/nerd note, every LOTR fan should read this little story. It's like a deleted scene, it's a real gem.
-AH!

 

[Sir Tristram]

Damn! I didn't know about that! THANKS ADAM!!!

 

[Atom Hues]

Damn! I didn't know about that! THANKS ADAM!!!

Imagine how I felt! I bought this ANNOTATED HOBBIT as a Christmas present for my girlfriend several years ago. I read through it because it seemed to have some neat stuff in it.

I come across this chapter that says: THE QUEST OF EREBOR - Gandalf's account of how he came to arrange the expedition to Erebor and send Bilbo with the Dwarves.

I felt like Indiana Jones! I think I read the whole chapter standing up, because I forgot to sit down.

Check the book out, if ya can! It has tons of interesting facts about The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings in the annotations.

 

[The Josh]

Think I might have to pick up this version.

 

[Anzik]

Wasn't the white council all 5 of the Astari? This could be problematic since there were two that weren't even named.

 

[Wetanut]

Unknown for sure but considered unlikely.....(Thain's Book of Middle Earth)
https://www.tuckborough.net/groups.html#White-Council

 

[The Josh]

Amazon has the Annotated Hobbit for $10 bucks and its the hard cover.

https://www.amazon.com/Annotated-Ho...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199040054&sr=8-1

 

[RoboDad]

That is a GREAT bargain!

 

[Atom Hues]

Wasn't the white council all 5 of the Astari? This could be problematic since there were two that weren't even named.

The 5 wizards of Middle-Earth were, I think, known as the Wise (Or Council of the Wise). I could be wrong.

This is what Ye Olde Wikkipedia has to say about the White Council:

The Second White Council's membership included the Wizards Saruman the White, Gandalf the Grey and Radagast the Brown, chiefs and rulers of the Elves including Lady Galadriel of Lórien, Master Elrond of Rivendell and Círdan the Shipwright of the Grey Havens. Saruman was the head of the White Council, against the wishes of Galadriel, who later described this as the beginning of the long defeat. Other possible members are said to be among the mightiest of Elves, the Elf-lord Glorfindel; Elrond's chief counsellor Erestor; Thranduil, the King of Northern Mirkwood and father of Legolas; and Celeborn, Galadriel's husband. The two Blue Wizards were not part of the Council. Tolkien does not give a list of all the members of the council, 'other lords of the Eldar' is as close as The Silmarillion gives to a list. Unbeknownst to the other members of the Council, Gandalf, Galadriel, and Elrond were also the bearers of the Three Rings of the Elves.

The other two wizards are known as the Blue Wizards, for their sea-blue robes. I once had a pal who was a HUGE Tolkien reader actually tell me their names, but I have no idea where he got that info.

Hope that helps.

-AH!

 

[The Josh]

That is a GREAT bargain!

That's why I went ahead. $10 for a hardcover was too good 2 pass up.

 

[Atom Hues]

Boy, that there Wikkipedia sure is helpful:

In the fiction of J. R. R. Tolkien, the Blue Wizards (or the Ithryn Luin in Sindarin) are two mysterious Maiar of the Vala Oromë sent to the East who are commonly called Alatar and Pallando. They are only hinted at in The Lord of the Rings, where Saruman states that there are five Wizards.

For the full article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Wizards

 

[pordey2]

I knew I had seen their names somewhere before too. Thanks Atom