HOBBIT figures pricing

[JHobbit]

I am a Tolkien fan first and foremost and, as such, I choose to collect only those things that appeal to my own aesthetic sense of Middle-Earth. I've no particular interest in either Sideshow or Weta, save only when their interpretation of that world and mine find common ground. Having said that, I do believe that the current Sideshow statue/maquette TLOTR line is the best that's ever been produced (didn't want or need the Snow Troll, though) and Weta's Barad-Dur is not only over-priced, it is rather boring and devoid of any real sense of menace.

In specific regard to "Hobbit Figures Pricing" the elephant in the room (at least for me) is that nobody has actually seen the movies yet. If Peter Jackson's vision of 'The Hobbit' veers too far away from the source material to the detriment of the Tokien legacy (I am being diplomatic here) then I won't want anything to remind me of that - no matter who makes it, or at what cost. So I'm sticking with my John Howe Smaug The Golden for now and will reserve judgement (and keep my pennies in my pocket) until I have seen his finished creation(s).

All being good, I hope that Sideshow secure the rights to produce a similar 'The Hobbit' line to compliment their fantastic current statue/maquette series and that Weta return to producing more affordable environments which appeal more to our imaginations - and with less emphasis on size.

Sean.

Some excellent, and valid points. I think many of those who call themselves LOTR fans have merely deluded themselves into believing that as they are nothing more than fans of a particular collectible company, whether it be Sideshow or Weta. I would never consider placing such restrictions on my LOTR-related collection, as I believe that in the end I would only be cheating myself. Like you, I don't care who makes what, and as long as a particular piece captures my vision of middle-earth I want it for my collection. I do agree however, for sheer quality and consistancy I think the maquette line is the finest LOTR line ever produced. Clearly, it is a line that has a long way to go before it approaches the quantity of the former SSW line, but I certainly like what I see so far.

As for your "Hobbit" observation, you are right in that no one has seen it yet. I know that PJ deviated somewhat where LOTR was concerned, but the reality of the situation is that books and movies are vastly different mediums and what works with one does not necessarily work well for the other. I do believe that PJ did a great job in capturing the overall essence of LOTR, and believe he will do so again where The Hobbit is concerned. Though only time will tell. I do not expect The Hobbit to be as good as LOTR, but hopefully the dropoff will be minimal. I do know what you mean though, as I recall a few years ago really wanting the Sideshow Wolf predator statue. I had every intention of purchasing one , but the movie was so bad I couldn't bring myself to do so knowing that everytime I looked at it would just remind me of a failed/disappointing movie.

 

[The Josh]

We have only to decide whether the prices these companies are asking are reasonable or not, and act accordingly.

I really think you need to remember this.

I will admit however, that while I believe every company has the right to ask whatever they want for their products I was shocked when Weta announced the price of Barad Dur. There is no doubt it was one of the more impressive looking LOTR collectibles I saw at SDCC, but in order for me to believe this environment is worth $700, I have to believe the amt. of time and effort that went into it's production is equal to that of both Rivendell and Orthanc combined, and that's just not happening. And that was before I even realized the tower itself is to be comprised of hardened plastic. So unfortunately, it will be the first Weta environment I will be passing on.

I think you need to see your own statement above. As far as the material did you even bother to ask why or are you just going to use that as a paper thing reason to spout off like your word is gospel? The material is a being done the way it is to allow for better detail to be captured as well as safer shipping so we don't end up with broken Barad-Durs.

Namely, to silence those who have criticized the pricing of Sideshow's LOTR maquette line since it's inception [all the while remaining completely silent when Weta doubled the price of their environment line when they re-introduced it]. Again, I was thoroughly impressed by the quality of both Weta's Hobbit line and Sideshow's LOTR maquette's at SDCC, but if I had to determine which company/line [Weta /Hobbit or Sideshow/LOTR maquette] is providing better value for the money or a "bigger bang for the buck" it is without a doubt Sideshow. The limited, numbered nature of the Sideshow line [as opposed to Weta's "let's just flood the market" open editions], the ability to alternatively display the LOTR maquettes [ yes, I recognize the Weta Gandalf statue also features this ability, but to date it is the only one], and Sideshow's individually designed and sculpted bases specific to each character [as opposed to Weta's "one size fit's all", generic, assembly line bases] lead me to believe collector's are getting more value for their money with Sideshow. Not that I think Sideshow's pricing is anything to write home about, but I do think they are providing better value for the money at the moment.

As far as the price of items from both companies this is what the market is allowing I've seen saying so since The Lord of the Rings line started back up. For you Sideshow is giving you what you're looking for and I agree that what Sideshow is doing gives you great bang for your buck. However, the collectibles Weta is turning out are also doing that and if you don't agree thats fine but don't state your opinion as fact.

You're not curious about anything. Your less than genuine remark is nothing more than a product of your inability to effectively debate the issue like an adult.

You need to take a deep breath because your posts don't come across very adult like either. Your posts come across as your word is gospel in this market when really you're just providing your opinion. Yes, you did give some stats on the global economy but those are the ONLY facts you've provided. So to be honest you should expect to be called out a bit when you come with that kind of attitude.

I have clearly stated that my opinion of Weta's Hobbit pricing is in direct relation to the pricing of Sideshow's comparable LOTR maquette line. But you already know all this since you directly quoted my post as part of your initial response. And curiously enough, not only did you not disagree with my assessment, you responded by stating you didn't mind paying extra because "Hobbit=Weta", which is hardly the kind of response I would expect from someone who seemingly takes issue with my remarks.

Both companies are charging what the market will allow. That's fact and nothing more or less so.

And also curiously enough, of all the people in this thread who share my belief, I seem to be the only one you to take issue with.

I think its your tone people have an issue with. Actually, I've read all your posts and you come across a bit rough to be honest. Like you've got a real bone to pick and that your opinion is gospel. As far as people agreeing with you I don't really see that.

Now I don't pretend to know why you've all the sudden changed your mind or why you've decided to resort to feigned indignation, but I do know one thing. I know that whereas I have clearly taken the time and effort required to explain why I believe what I believe, you have not. You have chosen the lazy and/or intellectually-challenged route of stating nothing to actually counter my opinion. Any fool can say "I don't believe you" or "Where'd you come up with that?", but it takes someone with a bit more intellect and ambition to debate a point using sound, tangible reason. And no offence, but I've seen little evidence from you that indicates you're up to the task.

You've come in and stated your opinion. The issue I think he's taking and something I wondered myself is how come your opinion is "fact". You're also real good I see about tossing out names so consider this your official warning. If you can't play nice infractions will follow.

And do I really need some "authoritative view" where common sense should suffice? Common sense tells me that flipping over the base on one of these new Hobbit statues and seeing no number means Weta can produce as many of these as they want. Common sense tells me that when the supply of a product outstrips the demand, that product will suffer devaluation. And common sense tells me that if Weta follows the same business model they used with the previous SSW line [too many open edition or obscene ES's] the results will be exactly the same. Weta, the company that supposedly prefers passion to profit will get filthy rich and collectors [or at least those not willing to wait] will end up with collections worth a fraction of their inital worth. So yes, I do believe Weta's open edition Hobbit statues are overpriced in relation to Sideshow's limited edition LOTR statues and I have seen nothing from you [probably because you haven't provided anything] at would even remotely lead me to question my position.

You're coming across as a supposed "authoritative" view. Several of those original SSW statues that were open editions are worth a nice chunk of change. Not as much now but that's because of the global economy to be honest and not as many bandwagon fans collecting The Lord of the Rings. So there is proof that open editions can gain value and we've seen limited edition items from many companies loose value in this market so there is proof that having an edition doesn't guarantee it will gain value.

So remember just because YOU believe it so doesn't make it so.

Now I do believe Weta has every right to ask whatever they want for their statues, and I am not telling anyone how to spend their money because that's none of my business. If people believe the Weta statues are fairly priced and they are willing to put down their hard-earned money to aquire them, then who am I to argue with them? I am only responsible for myself, and whereas I do not believe they are currently worth the asking price, the day will inevitably come when Hobbit fever begins to wane, and the value of these open edition statues begins to drop. And I am more than content to wait for that to happen before purchasing any of these statues.

You need to read this paragraph before stating your opinion as fact as you have.

 

[JHobbit]

I think you need to see your own statement above. As far as the material did you even bother to ask why or are you just going to use that as a paper thing reason to spout off like your word is gospel? The material is a being done the way it is to allow for better detail to be captured as well as safer shipping so we don't end up with broken Barad-Durs.

You know, you may be foolish enough to believe a companies PR memo's but I am not. My first [and almost my last] direct dealing with Weta was over the Smaug statue. Was it not Weta over the span of about two month's who deliberately and willingly lied to every single fan or collector as to why they replaced the solid wood base with one consisting of wood veneers? I could not believe the horsesh$t reasons they gave, nor could I believe how many people fell for it, but I didn't. I suppose my 30+ years experience as a cabinetmaker came in handy on that occasion, so you'll have to excuse me for not believing a company when they tell me they're replacing a specific component with a better one. I guess I'm just not stupid enough to fall for that line, esp. after how well it turned out the last time they used it.

You need to read this paragraph before stating your opinion as fact as you have.

I think I've been pretty clear concerning my opinions and I don't have the slightest problem if someone disagree's with me as long as they are willing to take the time and effort to state where they believe I am wrong. Clearly, this guy didn't. And I think I was pretty clear in stating I was open to honest discussion as opposed to sychophantic ramblings, yet this guy continued responding to my posts. Now if you can't differentiate the difference between my opinions, and actual facts then I'm afraid I can't help you. But if you feel I have said something in error then please feel free to point it out using specifics, as opposed to you slinging out some random generic statement. And who knows, when you call out the guy who stated "factually" that the Weta Hobbit statues are overpriced by $50 [I happen to agree with him], I'll take you remarks about my "facts" seriously.

 

[The Josh]

You know, you may be foolish enough to believe a companies PR memo's but I am not. My first [and almost my last] direct dealing with Weta was over the Smaug statue. Was it not Weta over the span of about two month's who deliberately and willingly lied to every single fan or collector as to why they replaced the solid wood base with one consisting of wood veneers? I could not believe the horsesh$t reasons they gave, nor could I believe how many people fell for it, but I didn't. I suppose my 30+ years experience as a cabinetmaker came in handy on that occasion, so you'll have to excuse me for not believing a company when they tell me they're replacing a specific component with a better one. I guess I'm just not stupid enough to fall for that line, esp. after how well it turned out the last time they used it.

I believe what people trust tell me on things like this. I've gotten to know the folks at Weta quite well and I know that they're telling the truth to those of us that actually asked about Barad-Dur. Weta had an issue with the original base choice and eat profits on it to give their buyers a proper item. I've seen the production version of how it came out which the final fixed result is typical awesome Weta. Again, with the resorting to name calling. Last warning.

I think I've been pretty clear concerning my opinions and I don't have the slightest problem if someone disagree's with me as long as they are willing to take the time and effort to state where they believe I am wrong. Clearly, this guy didn't. And I think I was pretty clear in stating I was open to honest discussion as opposed to sychophantic ramblings, yet this guy continued responding to my posts. Now if you can't differentiate the difference between my opinions, and actual facts then I'm afraid I can't help you. But if you feel I have said something in error then please feel free to point it out using specifics, as opposed to you slinging out some random generic statement. And who knows, when you call out the guy who stated "factually" that the Weta Hobbit statues are overpriced by $50 [I happen to agree with him], I'll take you remarks about my "facts" seriously.

Well, I would say your general attitude would say otherwise. He didn't have to because all he was saying is that you're coming across like you are the ONLY one who knows about collecting. I stated why your opinion of Weta using OE on pieces is off the mark referencing the SSW line OE pieces. I don't need to make it any clearer than that. You stated your opinion as to why the Weta Hobbit pieces are off the mark price wise for YOU that does not make it fact which is something you NEED to deal with ASAP.

 

[cstojano]

JHobbit, I learned quickly here that this isn't the place for deep discussions about collecting. This is a fan site primarily and most don't want to debate more heady issues. I fell in love with Weta when the John Howe line was announced but have gradually grown to be more critical. I did not order a single Hobbit product and likely won't unless the dwarves come in limited. Open ES is Weta looking out for the fans of the future, you know the guy that discovers this stuff in 3 years. Of course we would rather protect him from the secondary market than reward early adopters. I don't get it either. The bait and switch by both companies is deplorable.

One thing though, Weta offers a great rewards program. I save 15% as a gold member so Barad-dur comes to only 600 dollars

 

[The Josh]

JHobbit, I learned quickly here that this isn't the place for deep discussions about collecting. This is a fan site primarily and most don't want to debate more heady issues. I fell in love with Weta when the John Howe line was announced but have gradually grown to be more critical. I did not order a single Hobbit product and likely won't unless the dwarves come in limited. Open ES is Weta looking out for the fans of the future, you know the guy that discovers this stuff in 3 years. Of course we would rather protect him from the secondary market than reward early adopters. I don't get it either. The bait and switch by both companies is deplorable.

One thing though, Weta offers a great rewards program. I save 15% as a gold member so Barad-dur comes to only 600 dollars

We all discuss why we collect, why we feel certain items are worth the money, etc. Its not like these are never discussed or really need long tirades as to why. So as I said if you two want to go back and forth for days about those reason do so but I don't think you can really expect everyone to state with each item some super detailed reason. If you guys want to have these deep discussions you can start a private group and have at it. Collecting just isn't a subject as to what I would say are deep discussions. As far as bait and switch people really need to learn to use that term in its actual correct use.

 

[cstojano]

Showing a piece with a solid, light-grained, dark wood base and sending a veneered, orange, faux oak wood base is not bait and switch?

My comment to JHobbit was to not bother arguing like this here. People mostly want to pat each other on the back and revel in the joy of collecting this stuff. That's fine. I learned years ago not to bother with more in depth topics, I am suggesting JHobbit should do the same. The place is more enjoyable that way.

And really Josh you never say anything seriously critical.

 

[The Josh]

Showing a piece with a solid, light-grained, dark wood base and sending a veneered, orange, faux oak wood base is not bait and switch?

My comment to JHobbit was to not bother arguing like this here. People mostly want to pat each other on the back and revel in the joy of collecting this stuff. That's fine. I learned years ago not to bother with more in depth topics, I am suggesting JHobbit should do the same. The place is more enjoyable that way.

And really Josh you never say anything seriously critical.

Did they ever say that it would come on a solid wood base? Besides they made right with the issues of the base.

What deep topics are there really to discuss? The deepest topic is if people think a piece is worth the money. That gets talked about all the time here and really as deep as it gets. So after that gets covered from time to time you're right we like to talk about why we liked certain pieces then show them off. JHobbit wasn't even trying to be in depth he was stating his opinion (as fact) on why stuff from Weta is overpriced. That's not in-depth at all IMO. Where he was going is no more in-depth than normal around here.

I say my piece in a way that gets the job done just fine.

 

[theguru1]

And do you want to know why the company primarily "borne of the passion" has overpriced/overvalued their Hobbit line, and made it more difficult for the very fans who "share their passion" to afford? It's because they know they can overcharge their "passion-sharing fans". It's because they know their fans will pay regardless of the price. And how do they know this? They know because of the geniuses who constantly advertise they don't mind paying extra because apparently "Hobbit=Weta", and apparently Weta plan of taking full advantage of that knowledge. So remind me again how Weta is different from any other company?

I don't know that I can agree with that, Weta and in fact any other collectible company are well aware of the economic situation of the world at the moment and how all this stuff is part of 'entertainment spending'.

Yes, a few people said they would buy no matter what the price, but at the end of the day, those are few and far between. If Weta had priced Barad-dur based on that, it would have been $1000+. But they, just like Sideshow, know very few would buy it at that price and it would be a business loss.

As for the general increase in prices, which many started to notice with Sideshow and in continued with Weta, in many ways it is basic manufacturing costs. Try some Google searches and you'll see things like a 35% increase in wages year-on-year in China, the days of paying 2$ a day for someone to paint these statues hour after hour are gone.
Someone said that things get cheaper, TVs, iPods, etc. That maybe so, but they also make them in the millions, so not really the same thing is it.

At the end of the day, I buy what I want, if I think it's worth it.

 

[DaveMac]

Eloquent bovine excrement still doesn't take away from the fact that if you want something badly enough, you will pay for it. It's a non debate if the basis of the argument being put forward is based on suppositions and not facts.
I believe both Sideshow and WETA try and strike a fair balance between suppliers and buyers and offer a fair price for what they produce. However, what seems fair to me undoubtably will be unfair to others, a simple fact as borne out by previous comments. Will someones 'point of view'change this fact?
Nope

So is the point of the debate to company bash WETA or SIDESHOW?
Probably

 

[The Josh]

Eloquent bovine excrement still doesn't take away from the fact that if you want something badly enough, you will pay for it. It's a non debate if the basis of the argument being put forward is based on suppositions and not facts.
I believe both Sideshow and WETA try and strike a fair balance between suppliers and buyers and offer a fair price for what they produce. However, what seems fair to me undoubtably will be unfair to others, a simple fact as borne out by previous comments. Will someones 'point of view'change this fact?
Nope

So is the point of the debate to company bash WETA or SIDESHOW?
Probably

Sad isn't it that this seems to be the heart of the discussion.

 

[Adolfo]

Again like I've said before business is business ..If a company can think it could charge whatever fees and get it they will...end of story...whether I like it or not ...tough...it's business

 

[FrodoEyes]

Your less than genuine remark is nothing more than a product of your inability to effectively debate the issue like an adult......

lazy and/or intellectually-challenged.......

it takes someone with a bit more intellect and ambition to debate a point using sound, tangible reason. And no offence, but I've seen little evidence from you that indicates you're up to the task...


my wallet does on occasion get worn out from me constantly shelling out money for my collection...

Again, I don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about, and as such commenting would be pointless....

You know, you may be foolish enough...

I could not believe the horsesh$t reasons they gave...

I guess I'm just not stupid enough to fall for that line....

sychophantic ramblings...

To come here with just 13 posts and start talking to other members here like that is just completely out of order and lacking in courtesy. However well you presume yourself to speak, can't hide the fact you're showing a complete lack of respect. Do you really expect to win people over with comments like this?

And common sense tells me that if Weta follows the same business model they used with the previous SSW line [too many open edition or obscene ES's] the results will be exactly the same.

So yes, I do believe Weta's open edition Hobbit statues are overpriced in relation to Sideshow's limited edition LOTR statues and I have seen nothing from you [probably because you haven't provided anything] at would even remotely lead me to question my position.

Again, with the open editions - only the 3 main characters of the whole 'Hobbit' trilogy have been made open edition so far. Yes they're also the only statues announced so far, but can you really see most of the other statues being open edition? At this moment we're just guessing, and comparing Weta's Hobbit statues with Sideshow's LOTR maquettes, of which there are considerably more, is a bit presumptuous.

As for the edition sizes for the old Sideshow/Weta line, do you KNOW that is was Weta who decided on the edition sizes? As far as i can recall Weta were just responsible for the sculpting, not being a collectibles company at the time which is WHY they teamed up with Sideshow, who were left to deal with things like advertising, sales and edition sizes. For all the waffle you spout perhaps do your research.

But if you feel I have said something in error then please feel free to point it out using specifics, as opposed to you slinging out some random generic statement.

Hope i've helped

 

[The Josh]

Alright I think this topic has been covered.

 

[FrodoEyes]

Alright I think this topic has been covered.

I hope so, because this guy has revealed his true character in the Sauron PF thread -

"And kudo's to Sideshow because whereas some companies [or their sycophantic base] do little more than talk about putting passion before profit, Sideshow has actually backed up such talk with their actions in this instance."

Clearly has an issue with Weta, despite him saying he's a 'fan of Middle-Earth collectibles'

 

[The Josh]

I agree this person has come off a bit rude and clearly has picked one side. People do that and it's their choice but there are ways to at least be respectful about it. Personally, I'm a fan of both and think both deliver quality product for fans of Middle-earth.

 

[cstojano]

To come here with just 13 posts and start talking to other members here like that is just completely out of order and lacking in courtesy. However well you presume yourself to speak, can't hide the fact you're showing a complete lack of respect. Do you really expect to win people over with comments like this?



Again, with the open editions - only the 3 main characters of the whole 'Hobbit' trilogy have been made open edition so far. Yes they're also the only statues announced so far, but can you really see most of the other statues being open edition? At this moment we're just guessing, and comparing Weta's Hobbit statues with Sideshow's LOTR maquettes, of which there are considerably more, is a bit presumptuous.

As for the edition sizes for the old Sideshow/Weta line, do you KNOW that is was Weta who decided on the edition sizes? As far as i can recall Weta were just responsible for the sculpting, not being a collectibles company at the time which is WHY they teamed up with Sideshow, who were left to deal with things like advertising, sales and edition sizes. For all the waffle you spout perhaps do your research.



Hope i've helped

About the open editions, my point is that we are giving them no reason to change their practices since sales are brisk, people are eating it all up with two hands. That's fine. I will speak with my wallet as many are so fond of extolling. I'd much prefer their sales tank though and they respond accordingly by giving us limited editions at lower price points. One side says, "you guys rock, we love it, who cares about the price." The other (the minority) is trying to say, "hey guys, the fundamentals are wrong here." Its classic individual/collective dilemma I guess. I will wait to buy these on eBay. I also don't see this as a SS/Weta thing, at least for me it isn't. Heck this thread is about Bridge Direct

 

[FrodoEyes]

Well i agree that it's nicer to know that i own one of a certain limited number in the world - i don't think i've ever been so ecstatic to own such a limited edition as i was when i successfully placed an order for the Sam carrying Frodo up Mount Doom diorama.... they were offering only about 300 online and i was so proud to be one of the owners.

Saying that, Weta seem to be getting flooded with orders for their open edition statues, having to take on extra staff and stay open all hours to process orders..... i agree that it's probably wise to wait and grab a bargain online but with people getting caught up in Hobbit-mania they want it now, especially as Gandalf is arguably the best representation of that character we've seen in collectible form to date.

But i'm positive we'll be seeing quite a few limited editions. I can't see there being as much of a demand for most of the dwarves, unless people MUST have the 'complete fellowship'

 

[cstojano]

Yes and I will buy the dwarves, unless they are THAT much more than the gandalf. For example, the economics of it all may price a limited edition dwarf at 399 vs 250 for something like Gandalf. Time will tell. As I have said before I absolutely HATE losing money AND have varied interests which means I do sell quite a bit. This is the perfect storm for dissatisfaction in an era of high prices and open editions.